I didn't like Jackie Welles [Spoilers]

[magnusmc]

I don't think it was hard to form a opinion about him rather quickly.
In the six month cut seen, it was quite easy to see the was obnoxious and loud.
After that it became even more obvious, about his personality and the way he acted at the Afterlife meeting and on the drive to the heist.

A six month cut scene...This is what I dislike the most about this game...Spend more time watching this movie than playing the game...Cut scenes are the downfall of this game...Well not game so much. I'd call it the most expensive movie in my collection and the movie isn't that good!

 

[Techno_Core]

It was really obvious the devs were trying to force an emotional bond between V and Jackie but I just never felt it. I didn't dislike him and I suppose I could have come to like him but the game acted like we were best friends and V was devastated by his loss but my response was always... "Sure? I guess, if you say so?" They just didn't put the work into it.

 

[V_for_Valerie]

I actively disliked Jackie in my first playthrough (Female Corpo V). I really disliked how the game railroaded me into an awkward friendship with him, which feels especially forced when you're playing the Corpo lifepath - why would a Corporat associate with this guy? I kind of felt like the dynamic between Jackie and Female V was kinda awkward too.

When I did a second playthrough as a Male Nomad V though, I actually warmed to him a lot more. The relationship between them felt more organic and plausible (i.e. the intro montage depicting Jackie showing V around NC actually makes sense in this context). I could believe that Nomad V would be friends with him.

Overall though, I think a more palatable character should've taken Jackie's place in the prologue, someone who could've plausibly been friends with any of the lifepath Vs. I think T-Bug worked pretty well for that reason.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I actively disliked Jackie in my first playthrough (Female Corpo V). I really disliked how the game railroaded me into an awkward friendship with him, which feels especially forced when you're playing the Corpo lifepath - why would a Corporat associate with this guy? I kind of felt like the dynamic between Jackie and Female V was kinda awkward too.

When I did a second playthrough as a Male Nomad V though, I actually warmed to him a lot more. The relationship between them felt more organic and plausible (i.e. the intro montage depicting Jackie showing V around NC actually makes sense in this context). I could believe that Nomad V would be friends with him.

Overall though, I think a more palatable character should've taken Jackie's place in the prologue, someone who could've plausibly been friends with any of the lifepath Vs. I think T-Bug worked pretty well for that reason.

Corpo V actually has the most reasons to be friends with Jackie.

Jackie saved corpo Vs life before we even see them (they remark on this during the funeral)

Jackie has worked with corpo V multiple times before the prologue, they talk of at least two jobs where Jackie did extremely well.

And Jackie gave V opportunity and purpose at a crucial time, when most corpo rejects end up doing something stupid or suiciding, having lost everything.

But also, people misunderstand Jackie and his relationship with V. Jackie is the one who is carrying the enterprise.
Jackie is the one who has built reputation, connections, and trust before V even comes into the picture. Which is the hardest part about being a Merc. Jackie is humble, and he offers V partnership, but Jackie was the one who gives V the opportunities. He cosigns V, and promotes V. Vouches for V, allowing V to shortcut in 6 months what other people take years to build. The trustworthy ripper, who let's you get cyberware on a promise? He is Jackie's old friend. (tells you when you scan him)

Rogue remarks later in a phonecall, She as a fixer doesn't trust V, and other mercs don't trust V. Mercs usually work in a team, V is alone. V doesn't reach this level again until the final mission, and in rogue's ending, its Johnny's team. V is highly skilled, but Jackie brings the connections and charisma. Lets be honest, V is very lucky, because you can't do much on your own, and V at no point shows leadership or the ability to cultivate a group. V is lucky they make friends with people who have this skillset, like panam, Jackie, rogue and johnny. Or maybe its not luck, maybe V purposefully associates with those people.

Now, its possible corpo V is using Jackie for his rep, connections, and ability to bring people in. But he's not the useless funtime guy that people see on the surface. Even if corpo V is cold and calculating, Jackie brings a lot of value.

this doesn't mean yall should personally like Jackie, but he's not a goon.

 

[Satori88]

We need someone brave creating a thread with "I DIDN'T LIKE PANAM".

 

[V_for_Valerie]

Corpo V actually has the most reasons to be friends with Jackie.

Jackie saved corpo Vs life before we even see them (they remark on this during the funeral)

Jackie has worked with corpo V multiple times before the prologue, they talk of at least two jobs where Jackie did extremely well.

And Jackie gave V opportunity and purpose at a crucial time, when most corpo rejects end up doing something stupid or suiciding, having lost everything.

True as this is, I don't feel like it was communicated very well in the game itself and the relationship still came off as forced to me. I could buy Corpo V and Jackie as shady business associates, which they essentially are, but not best friends like the game tries to make out. Having Jackie save V from the Arasaka goons and then immediately invite V to move in with him was way too sudden and felt more the game's justification for why they should be friends rather than a natural dynamic. They really have very little in common with one another.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

True as this is, I don't feel like it was communicated very well in the game itself and the relationship still came off as forced to me. I could buy Corpo V and Jackie as shady business associates, which they essentially are, but not best friends like the game tries to make out. Having Jackie save V from the Arasaka goons and then immediately invite V to move in with him was way too sudden and felt more the game's justification for why they should be friends rather than a natural dynamic. They really have very little in common with one another.

Hmm, I know a number of people who have invited some down and out person to live with them. In the case of corpo V, this is clearly a pre existing relationship. Perhaps for you, you have no friends who are very different than you, but I ve seen this dynamic many many times. I mean Jackie is trustworthy, loyal, and generous. These are qualities people from all walks of life usually look for in friends

That said, True friendship with Jackie is mostly the choice of the player, you can do a lot to suggest you weren't truly friends. You can ignore/insult his dreams, refuse to go to his funeral, ask about the relic when hes coughing up blood. They give you room to say Jackie was just a tool, even though thats probably not how they envisioned the relationship. And for many of you, thats how it played out. Everyone else bellyaching about Jackie (vik, misty, his mom)while V mentally rolls eyes.

If Jackie friendship doesn't fit your specific Vision of V's character, or you just plain find him annoying, thats fine, but its not bad writing or weird for Jackie to be V's friend. I get that they didnt show you their history, but thats pretty normal in fiction. stories with adult characters will usually have a number of pre existing relationships the reader accepts.

I can however understand why players may not be able to summon great emotion at his passing, especially the first time, a lot of exposition on Jackie occurs as you see him in various openings(and choose options), and how he effected other charachter's lives. Sadly I don't think they expected a deep reaction at his death the first time, Hes mostly there to guide you then highlight how badly the job ended up going (everyone dies)

I really only barely started to appreciate Jackie in time for his death, mostly because in the heist he clearly fights on when hes probably going to die anyway, just to give V a chance to survive and succeed. Imo he knew he was dead halfway through the escape, in the elevator, when he talks of divine comedy, says his liver had it coming, and reassures V, "we ll make it out". He refused to take his last breath till V was safe, with the relic. For that alone, I had to respect the guy even when I didn't know much else.

 

[Caralampio]

I didn't like Jackie at first but he grew on me. Felt really sad when he died. On the way to the heist, I actually was sorry that there wasn't an option to go through the conversation without stepping on his toes. I felt that it was actually V being rude there. At the afterlife he was bit blunt, but not in a way to make me disappointed in him. Just like a bit embarrassed by his bluntness, like "Oh Jackie..." V has also some really rude dialogues while escaping the tower. I only learned to avoid them in my second play, feels bad to berate the poor dying man.
Maybe I like him because Spanish is my everyday language so I get all his Spanglish speech mannerisms.
However it feels to me like he fits better as a bro with male V. When playing as female V the relationship feels a bit artificial (but that's just my roleplaying, of course the dialogues and everything are identical).
I do miss him in the rest of the game, I wish he was still around in some role, even doing stuff together sometimes.

 

[V_for_Valerie]

If Jackie friendship doesn't fit your specific Vision of V's character, or you just plain find him annoying, thats fine, but its not bad writing or weird for Jackie to be V's friend. I get that they didnt show you their history, but thats pretty normal in fiction. stories with adult characters will usually have a number of pre existing relationships the reader accepts.

Depends. Pre-existing relationships are obviously a standard thing in fiction but this felt really glossed-over and slightly beyond my suspension of disbelief. The game gives a reason for why V should like Jackie (or, more accurately, why V owes Jackie a debt of gratitude - not really the same as being his best friend), but never really conveys why Jackie likes V so much. The dynamic, to me, feels a lot more natural in the Street Kid and Nomad intros. I think it's mainly a symptom of just how rushed the Corpo intro is as a whole.

That said, True friendship with Jackie is mostly the choice of the player, you can do a lot to suggest you weren't truly friends. You can ignore/insult his dreams, refuse to go to his funeral, ask about the relic when hes coughing up blood. They give you room to say Jackie was just a tool, even though thats probably not how they envisioned the relationship. And for many of you, thats how it played out. Everyone else bellyaching about Jackie (vik, misty, his mom)while V mentally rolls eyes.

Hard disagree here. I tried to distance myself from Jackie in my first playthrough but it isn't really possible. You can pick some slightly condescending dialogue options, or just outright ignore him sometimes, but it doesn't affect the relationship between Jackie and V in any way - being mean to him will not earn his ire, and he'll just keep talking if you ignore him. It actually just highlights how forced upon the player he really is.

After Jackie snuffs it, V will still say things in dialogue with other characters later down the line that will imply or outright state that they miss Jackie and considered him a true friend. The developers didn't expect that anyone would dislike him and never wrote it in as an option.

 

[silversurfpunk]

Sure he's a bit of a lug head, but he's always got your back. I came close to tears when I jokingly tried to call his number late in the game.

 

[Rogue-Nomad]

We need someone brave creating a thread with "I DIDN'T LIKE PANAM".

Bite your tongue!! LOL

 

[Fuse_00]

I like Jackie really, he is a type of person you can easily be attracted too, but the thing is he's part in the game is just way to short, so when he died I was just "ah, that's a pity, but whatever".
it is not enough to place charismatic good guy on the field and tell player: here is Jackie, he's your best friend, no, you need to show why It is so, this 20 sec cutscene with compilation of random V and Jackie life events is simply not enough for creation of emotional bond with a character

 

[Kizu_KCM]

He's like a Batou but we didn't get to know him for the short time.

 

[CEAN0]

Jackie was okay, but T-Bug was just a complacent and unpopular person.

 

[lyin321]

Your on the way to the corpo hotel and Jackie is super hyped about the delamain excelsior package. If you click the first option, V comments that Jackie has 'lost his grip'.


When I hear V say that I think to myself like "tf you mean? Hes just excited, shutup V!" I always tell Jackie to "forget about it" afterwards because the other options are you calling him vain. Which I say is pretty lame. Hes spent his whole life scraping by, and hes excited about "the big leagues". Realistically I'd be just as excited and hyped as he was.

Then your in the elevator and I forgot what Jackie said, but your given the option to either say "why, cause you said so?" Or "talk to t-bug". I hate both those options because it seems like your just taking your anger out on Jackie. Which both seem rude and unnecessary. I went silent there cause I didn't like either of those options and chose to have an awkward silent staring contest with my dying friend.

You don't have to pick these lines (or similar ones where you are in a car). As for the lines themselves - my experience was the opposite of yours. I agree with V that he is being stupid and letting the glamour of the 'big league' blind him. And at the elevator....partly still, but there he had blood loss so he can be forgiven
....actually he started acting that way from the moment he told us about Dex. When a streetkid talk about Dex and how 'his last operation ended in a bloody war', Jackie was like 'V we all end up with blood on our hands in our bizz'.....and V keeps silent. I hated that. Why couldn't I go 'that is not my bloody point you moron - it is that if Dex cleans up failed missions with blood, then we are not nearly strong enough to survive!'...
...ahh I generally like Jackie...promise!....but sometimes.....why couldn't I just shoot him?

 

[larrackell]

We need someone brave creating a thread with "I DIDN'T LIKE PANAM".

Me if I ever see that thread, getting ready for preem entertainment:

I adore Panam. I just know that thread would be funny.

 

[Mushashi7]

I wouldn't want Jackie as a companion. I would strangle him in the end for his ...ahem... narrow view on life.

Jackie was an ok guy, but not something I'd hang out with.

 

[Niatka]

I just think Jackie was poorly developed. he is an "emphasize" character and a sort of NPC vector.
from my point of view; Jackie Welles annoys me with his overly repetitive sentences. a character without much stature hoping to find the El Dorado. with V; it might be possible.

moreover, he is always like a kid who is surprised at what he sees.
for a former Valentinos, a street kid, this is very surprising.

 

[Copestetic85]

I personally really like(d) Jackie and am disappointed that they chose to kill him off after only a few missions. Dude was a stand-up guy looking to get enough cash to retire from the job and get on with his life with Misty. Not sure why that's a bad thing.

 

[flippimonkey]

He had zero character arch and was in and out of the game so fast.

What there is, isn't very impressive. I would probably have a different opinion if he wasn't a "montage character".