It feels like the game lost its soul

[Iuliandrei]

It feels like the game lost its soul

First of all this is my opinion, i played a lot of closed beta, over 40 levels and enjoyed every minute of it. Right now, in less than week, it starts to become frustrating mainly because it feels really one sided, it's no longer the back and forth we got used to and i think that made the game fun, for me at least.

Personally i blame it on these huge openers which allows some decks to steamroll pretty much everything else. It's not fun when you know from turn 1, round 1, that you'll lose the game without being able to take a single round and there is nothing you can do about it. Furthermore it widens the gap between people who spent hundreds of dollars on the game and F2P or people who spent less than 20$.

Do you remember the time when turn 1 Crones and the pass was a legitimate tactic? sure you could lose the round but in most cases you were 2 cards up and had a 6 STR keep. Now if you do this you instantly lose the game.
Why do people complain about Tibor when ST can put 26-28 STR + resilience in one play without any disadvantage?
Or do you know when people said King of Beggers would be overpowered? now with in current iteration 15 STR is too little, people don't run him because he's too weak.

It seems that the game will be balanced around these big openers, Imperial golems isn't just some cool to have, they are MANDATORY, they should be the new NG faction passive because you can't play without them, or you can but will lose 0-2, and this kind of approach actually ruins deck diversity.
It seems the only thing left is this brute force approach, card advantage doesn't matter, it's no long a game about tactics and bluffing. You can no longer milk your opponent because in most cases round 3 doesn't exist and if you have a deck that plans to go for the long haul then the game won't be fun for you.

/rant over i guess
tldr: the crones-like opener should have been toned down, not power creep it to 11

 

[DMaster2]

Do you remember the time when turn 1 Crones and the pass was a legitimate tactic? sure you could lose the round but in most cases you were 2 cards up and had a 6 STR keep. Now if you do this you instantly lose the game.
Why do people complain about Tibor when ST can put 26-28 STR + resilience in one play without any disadvantage?
Or do you know when people said King of Beggers would be overpowered? now with in current iteration 15 STR is too little, people don't run him because he's too weak.

I'd say finally you can't go CA plus free resilience by playing 1 card. It was a needed change. Why should you win the round by playing one card (on top of getting a free resilient unit), or lose but go +2 CA? I'd say it was wrong how it was before.
And as far i've loved good old KoB (first pull i had in CB from kegs), he was way too powerful. It was basically in every single deck in the game. Now it's too weak? Yeah i suppose. That's the deal with cards that don't win but try to make you not lose the game.

 

[Iuliandrei]

I'd say finally you can't go CA plus free resilience by playing 1 card. It was a needed change. Why should you win the round by playing one card (on top of getting a free resilient unit), or lose but go +2 CA? I'd say it was wrong how it was before.

I think you missed the point, yes that level of power was wrong but it did NOT change, in fact we got even more powerful plays like Brouver hoog + Saskia + Roach + Barclay Els + Defender, this is a 26 point play with 8 resilience, much stronger than the Crones ever were.
Crones are no longer that big power play that give you an advantage, you HAVE to play them in order to keep up with the tempo.
So i don't know what game are you playing where you "finally you can't go CA plus free resilience by playing 1 card" but i'd like to play that too.

 

[DMaster2]

I think you missed the point, yes that level of power was wrong but it did NOT change, in fact we got even more powerful plays like Brouver hoog + Saskia + Roach + Barclay Els + Defender, this is a 26 point play with 8 resilience, much stronger than the Crones ever were.
Crones are no longer that big power play that give you an advantage, you HAVE to play them in order to keep up with the tempo.
So i don't know what game are you playing where you "finally you can't go CA plus free resilience by playing 1 card" but i'd like to play that too.

Well you can deal with the resilience on dwarves. You have locks, you have scorch, you have igni. Mardroeme and D. Shackles will also reset and/or lock the defenders. But you couldn't do sht about monster passive. Something was bound to be resilient, one way or the other. The removal of passive was a big plus imho.

 

[Laveley]

It seems the only thing left is this brute force approach, card advantage doesn't matter, it's no long a game about tactics and bluffing. You can no longer milk your opponent because in most cases round 3 doesn't exist and if you have a deck that plans to go for the long haul then the game won't be fun for you.

Totally agree. The game now is about whoever puts the bigger combo on the board and less about tactical decisions which make you have, for example, bigger CA.

Against some decks its even bad to loose round 1 with 2 or 3 ca.

Well you can deal with the resilience on dwarves. You have locks, you have scorch, you have igni. Mardroeme and D. Shackles will also reset and/or lock the defenders. But you couldn't do sht about monster passive. Something was bound to be resilient, one way or the other. The removal of passive was a big plus imho.

Friend, this is not about counters. Yes, every single card on this game has a counter. What the OP is trying to say is that the gameplay now is way more one-sided and less tactical than before. Now you dont think too much on how you can achieve +CA to give you the upper hand on future rounds, or if its worth to take the round with -1 CA. You generally just try to put the maximum amount of number on the board and thats it, usually even going all in on round 1.

 

[Bugii]

For me, as you OP said, the game lost its soul.
I do believe it's a good game now and many players will enjoy it.
It's just not that Gwent I liked and it's not something I see myself playing for a long time.
But it has nothing to do with the decks or someone else having better cards.

The game just doesn't feel the same anymore.
Biggest problem for me are agile units everywhere and one sided weather. Plus, the weather does not make sense at all. Foglets dying in fog, ice giant frozen to death. Everything damages everything, etc.

Game used to be really fun to chill out and play some rounds while watching TV or eating dinner. Now it's changed to a math exam. You play a card, several actions happened, sometimes you dont even know why, strength numbers changing as crazy. It used to be easy to play, hard to master. Now it's just hard to understand whats going on. The game feels more like work than fun.

I used to play a lot in CBT and enjoyed every minute of it, but as of now, I didnt even bother to launch gwent since Thursday, which I think speaks for itself.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

I think OP is a little exaggerating.

DMaster is right, CB had too many imbalances that are now -mercifully- gone.
Remember how OP Henselt/Foltest were and how every other match was against the same boring tactic.
That or Vrihedd brigade and copying Toruviel.

The game is completely different now, and while it's self-evident several tweaks are necessary, it's not stale anymore.

 

[joinmybones]

CA is still very important to the game, and you can definitely win the game by playing to rounds 2 and 3. If you play strategically and tech counter play cards in your deck (which you should if you want to win against a variety of different decks) you can bait out and counter your opponents big combos, or make them use too much of their deck's overall power on round 1 while saving your big combos for rounds 2 and 3, it really just depends on the deck archetype you're playing and the faction, etc.

Yes, Nilfgaard is over tuned but I doubt CDPR are going to ignore that, and even as of right now Nilfgaard isn't unbeatable by any means, and neither is weather.

I'd argue that the weather system, despite its flaws at the moment, is more interactive than before, requiring more thought and prompting more counterplay.

In short, I think there can be a lot of back and forth and counterplay/strategic thinking involved in OB Gwent, but the focus of it has changed somewhat.

I'm not saying anyone is incorrect for disliking the new Gwent, that is a matter of opinion, but I feel like it is more a preference of what kind of imbalanced state that you prefer at this point, which is ultimately subjective and doesn't reflect anything seriously wrong with the game's design.

 

[Laveley]

CA is still very important to the game, and you can definitely win the game by playing to rounds 2 and 3. If you play strategically and tech counter play cards in your deck (which you should if you want to win against a variety of different decks) you can bait out and counter your opponents big combos, or make them use too much of their deck's overall power on round 1 while saving your big combos for rounds 2 and 3, it really just depends on the deck archetype you're playing and the faction, etc.

I strongly disagree with you, CA is not nearly as important as it was before. The little importance CA has now is simply due the fact that you have more resources and thus potentially more points to bring to the table, but the tactical aspect of having the last play is practically null now because of the almost absence of instant swing cards on later rounds.

For example, now if you have -1ca but 2 resilient units on the table, the advantage is actually yours weather on CB it would be of your opponent because of last play.

 

[frbfree]

The game is completely different now, and while it's self-evident several tweaks are necessary, it's not stale anymore.

The metas are as present now as they were then. It's not completely different. It will never be different as long as people want to be lazy and netdeck their way to victory. It's mostly Dorfs and Control ST, with some Bran and NG sprinkled in, and a very rare Monster Weather deck. Oh yeah, and everyone who has an RNR, plays the RNR in every deck.



Also, I can tell you with 100 percent certitude that the problem with Nilfgaard Golems is not that they're used for bludgeoning first turn. They are used for first turn because the mulligan system is garbage. It was garbage in CB and nothing was done to address it with the PB. You can't save your leader play as NG, because if you mulliganed even one Golem, you are going to see it in your first 2 draws. It's a joke, and nobody is willing to risk it. Which is why there are so many first turn Calveits, and why nobody saves Emyr for Round 2.

 

[joinmybones]

I strongly disagree with you, CA is not nearly as important as it was before. The little importance CA has now is simply due the fact that you have more resources and thus potentially more points to bring to the table, but the tactical aspect of having the last play is practically null now because of the almost absence of instant swing cards on later rounds.

For example, now if you have -1ca but 2 resilient units on the table, the advantage is actually yours weather on CB it would be of your opponent because of last play.

I'm not really here to do a ton of debating, just give my own perspective on the current state of the game. But from what I'm reading, you seem to be very focused on resilience as a difficult to deal with mechanic when in reality, it is one of the most readily countered mechanics in the game. Every faction has access to lock units which are usually powerful enough to see play whenever you need them, you also have access to a myriad of other tech cards that can deal with resilient units like scorch, shackles, anything that resets a buffed resilient unit, etc. That;s not to mention that you can create resilient units of your own if that is a strategy that appeals to you. The same can be said for the Weather system, although I find the current iteration of weather much more overbearing.

Certain factions have a ton of late game swing cards as well, particularly QG Skellige and NR Reavers. I'm not making a claim that the game is perfectly balanced, because it isn't, but to say that card advantage and decision making are less important now than they were in CB seems misleading.

That's all I have to say on the topic, as I mentioned in my initial post I don't think that anyone is wrong for preferring CB Gwent as opposed to OB Gwent because the game has changed drastically in terms of mechanics and available strategies from what it was. For me, this has deepened my enjoyment of the game and my faith in the future of its design, but some players may find the changes jarring and find themselves missing the old feel of the game. I think that's fine, but I also don't think it reflects badly on the game's design as a whole.

In any case, have a nice day, I just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

The metas are as present now as they were then. It's not completely different. It will never be different as long as people want to be lazy and netdeck their way to victory. It's mostly Dorfs and Control ST, with some Bran and NG sprinkled in, and a very rare Monster Weather deck. Oh yeah, and everyone who has an RNR, plays the RNR in every deck.

Metas are always been present and always will be, it does not depend from the game's design or balance.
There is no way to prevent ppl from playing that way.

 

[TheShift]

It's only been a week fellas
all these new players mixed in with long time closed beta testers...Reguardless of changes.we have a big upper hand
that might be why some matchs to some people might seem one sided and steam rolled over
not to mention most still don't have the cards they need
or the ones they had in closed beta don't work like before
leaving them scrambling to go to plan b

just a thought

 

[PandaLin]

Have fate and give team Gwent a chance to react. It's like, you guys watch a movie and after 10 minutes you already shouting the movie is terrible. Still, beta just reminding you.

 

[Krull32]

The game just doesn't feel the same anymore.
Biggest problem for me are agile units everywhere and one sided weather. Plus, the weather does not make sense at all. Foglets dying in fog, ice giant frozen to death. Everything damages everything, etc.

Game used to be really fun to chill out and play some rounds while watching TV or eating dinner. Now it's changed to a math exam. You play a card, several actions happened, sometimes you dont even know why, strength numbers changing as crazy. It used to be easy to play, hard to master. Now it's just hard to understand whats going on. The game feels more like work than fun.

I used to play a lot in CBT and enjoyed every minute of it, but as of now, I didnt even bother to launch gwent since Thursday, which I think speaks for itself.

Can only agree here.
Especially with the marked.
Even the ingame card descriptions are weird and here and there hard to understand.

Didn't had much time to play because of connection issues like crazy but for now its really enough..sad to say.

 

[Laveley]

Have fate and give team Gwent a chance to react. It's like, you guys watch a movie and after 10 minutes you already shouting the movie is terrible. Still, beta just reminding you.

In your example i'm shouting the first 10 min are terrible (and they actually are), not the whole movie.

Obviously they can improve the game, and they should in fact. And its exactly to that happen they need our feedback, and if i feel the game is worse now than before i have to say that and give my reasons for that, otherwise, than theres a real chance the next 100 mins of the movie will be even worse than the first 10.

 

[PandaLin]

I am also not happy with new weather and agile units everywhere but the beta started just some days ago. You remember when everyone called Monster terrible bad and then figure out how to kick everyone's ass with Monsters. Weather and agile really annoying me but maybe the meta changes and it works. Who knows.....

 

[Xifortis]

I have to agree with the OP for the most part. The game is still fun but CDprojekt keeps nerfing swing cards to the point all the "Meta" decks are all about avoiding interactibility. I think the games were to swingy and needed to be nerfed in CB but this feels like it's the other extreme. Games are more predictable than ever and you can usually tell after playing a few cards wether you're going to win or not.

It speaks volumes that Rah Nah Roog is a popular card now despite being relatively bad, but it's one of the few cards that still enable a swing. Well, unless you play Nilfguard, which seems to be completely busted atm where every silver/gold exclusive to NG swings in their favor, but that's a discussion for another topic.

 

[Iuliandrei]

This sentence in particular from OP's opening statement is also why people that are responding to you and OP are citing examples of tech cards, because it implies at the very least that there are no ways to interact with your opponent's game plan, which isn't true.

Do you think i'm playing with a lock in my hand and don't know how to use it? do you think i made this post without the knowledge that locks removes resilience? Is this the issue you are replying to?
Yes there are many counterplays, let's say you scorch the big resilient unit. The effect is that they still has 14-16 points on the board after 1 play and you have 0.

Tech cards alone won't drive the direction of the game however and moving forward you will also need plays to match the power of the strongest deck, these are the kind of things metas are formed around and i gave the golem example; while it should feel like a bonus, in reality it's a requirement that restricts your deck strategies.

 

[Riven-Twain]

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