Level scaling ruins the game

[Thrunge]

Another +1 on the vote against level scaling. Please give me the option to go back to how it was.

I really enjoyed knowing there were areas of high danger I wasn't ready for and levelling up, getting gear to be able to go to them, it's called progression.

Now levelling is basically pointless, may as well start at level 50 and randomly just go around the world clockwise or pick some other random pattern.

 

[zzzfrofzzz]

to be honest , i was quite worried about level scaling at first ..
i think they pick the right choice but there's room to improve the system ;
the good with level scaling ,
player can finally explore the world , its feel more immersive ;
before on 1.63 , our adventure , resume to :
- do gigs on aera A
- do main quest aera A
- do side quest on aera A
..
then go aera B
...
then go aera C
a big map , but the player was always limited by requirement lever / power , that's make non sense

what they need to improve , even there's level scaling , adding more challenge , mini boss , to avoid the feeling all the combat difficulty 're "flat"
on normal difficulty , its really an issues , even we get proper combat , there's no sense of danger .
tryed on the hardest difficulty , its more enjoyable and challenging .
the main quest is quite balanced but , gigs task , fighting gangs or some other few side quest , its a bit too easy even on normal difficulty . on the good side cybersphyco finally get a proper reworks

to resume , the new system level scaling , isn't all bad and it can make sense , but they need to balance this new feature to offer both challenge and sense of danger when player progress . with this system atm , player can use the exploit of not upgrading so IA behavior just scale at lower setting difficulty , pattern xd

 

[TheMalevolentTrout]

Uh yeah no, Level Scaling is the best part of 2.0.

 

[Operation40]

+1, level scaling broke the game (for me)

scaled enemies means scaled loot, so no more taking on big challenges for big rewards. everything is a sea of gray

I used to really enjoy taking on enemies that could 1-shot me, collecting crazy good gear from them which I used to mow down lesser mobs en masse. guess I was playing "wrong"

 

[Spockprime]

I don't like level scaling in any game other than a pure loot shooter. Period. And even in loot shooters, only because collecting better loot is a core part of the gameplay.

However, I haven't experienced the near immortal high level enemies that some people here are describing. Not saying that it isn't happening, just that I haven't experienced it. My character is still significantly stronger than equally leveled enemies.

 

[Paszkowski]

+1 on the vote against level scaling, dumb decision that made powerful weapons acting like a toys.

example BUZZSAW then - what a monster!​

now - LOL​

 

[Masioj]

While enemies health and base damage seem to keep up with the player`s... Definitely not all the enemies and encounters feel the same to me.

Already when I was clearing Watson from NCPDs calls and Regina`s gigs, some scenarios were for sure harder than others. That difficulty coming from the amount of enemies, their position, type and tier... This tier what I mean is some with a skull in them are particularly either carrying a lot of cyberware or more dangerous guns, or very tanky or a mix of them together and different AI.

The most clear example of this I`ve had so far (after clearing Watson, did the heist and after that I am) during the Heist, the arasaka enemies that you find are significantly tougher that the common goon, not only tankier but also seemed like they had better aim and shoot more, what made reaching the Delimain cab kind of the the most remarkable challenge that I got so far.

For me, this enemy "scaling" was well done, this isn`t Oblivion kind of scaling work. I`m happy for this change of direction.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

I have mixed feelings about level scaling.

Reasons I like it:

• Pre-2.0 damage/armour stats on equipment/hacks were nonsense and not worth reading except as a relative comparison with other items of the same kind. That's because by far the largest contributor to the damage done/received was the level difference between attacker/defender. Since level difference is effectively eliminated, the stats are worth reading now.
• There's freedom to go anywhere after The Heist, without being worried about being one-hit-killed by a random thug.
• It's possible to enjoy side-content in any order. Pre-2.0 you could be hilariously over-levelled for some content and faceroll through it; that's boring.

But on the other hand:

• The same enemy magically becoming stronger just because I got stronger is a little immersion-breaking.
• I'm a little robbed of "feeling more powerful" after a few level-ups, because I have no choice to go and fight some enemies who were once very tough and are now a pushover.

I'm not sure which set I feel more strongly about though. So my overall opinion right now is somewhat neutral.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2023

In some ways, I think it might have been better to communicate this change differently. If CDPR didn't say that enemies always scale to your level but instead:

Damage dealt/received is no longer affected by the difference in level between attacker/defender

That would mean the same thing but might not attract the same criticism? I always thought level-based damage scaling is a lazy design choice in RPGs. I'd actually prefer Final Fantasy style "five trillion damage per attack" number-inflation than level-based damage.

 

[CTPhipps]

The game is dead. It's just another shooter now so who cares? I'm not getting that DLC and just gonna move on.

Hacking ruined stealth and gunplay.

Now you have to think about your approach and how to deal with people.

 

[robzhe]

Agreed, but...does it matter, any more?
As all options for gameplay bar 'charge in and shoot everyone' have been removed due them killing hacking entirely, what does it matter?

There's no need for that when you can use contagion first, then charge in and shoot everyone.

There you go, hacking saved.

 

[Oxsis]

+1 vote against level scaling. i want a story rpg and not darksouls. i want to grow from streetkid to legend and not feel like i'm useless at level 50.

V can jump out of Konpeki Plaza and handle Arasaka Military, but doesn't stand a chance against 3 Tiger Claw boys. Logic

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Except you are stronger, you have skills no one else in the game has. You are taking on Max tac on your own, Arasaka on your own and now Dog Town. You quite literally are the strongest merc in Night City.

I'm sure there may be some valid criticism in there somewhere if you guys took the time to explain instead of just being contrarian with the most extreme takes. "Level Scaling RUINS the game"? Really...does it really ruin the entire game? Come on mates, lets do better.

Exactly.
People seem to conflate "being the most powerful man/woman within the game's world" with "litterally 180°-NoScope-Oneshotting the most powerful of powerful enemies (god forbid armies)" as if they accidentally walked in the vicinity of it. Hopefully the level of sarcasm comes across.
Throughout the entire game we can find instances where the ingame world swallowed people whole. Some examples: Meredith dying depending on your choices. Bug8ear being trapped in the net about to go in limbo. The myriad of nameless people being found dead all over the shop. The Cyberpsycho's are effectively people in over their head (forced or not) The Aldecaldos being near extinct until you aid them becoming one of the most powerful Nomads. But also the already mentioned accomplishments by V. Executed a heist any other person within the world of CP77 would call 'batshit crazy'. Singlehandedly defeating the most legendary of characters such as a highly esteemed corpo bodyguard, a hunter-killer cyborg, entire gangs and Ultimately responsible for (provided the ending) halfway destroying the most powerful and influential corporation.
Just because people cant breeze through the game on easymode near the end and that they actually need to use 2 braincells, makes them have their knickers in a twist. [...]

And another thing... I increasingly so get the impression that everyone wants and believes they should be able to complete the game while playing on ultra-nightmarine-tryhard mode because its what some random dude on the internet did while making it look easy.
'hard' mode is and should be hard for a reason and therefore should require you to keep being at the top of your game. Not play like a noob as if on easymode from the halfway mark because 'RPG'.

 

[Props]

I'm usually against level scaling (D4), because it diminishes the overall feel of becoming more powerful.

Roughly 6 months ago (maybe more), in anticipation of the expansion, I decided to take a hiatus just before Act 3. Level 42, decked out with legendaries. Upon loading my save last night (first time playing in 6 months), I was in complete darkness, in regards to where I was and what quest I was in the middle of. Turns out, I was in the process of rescuing Takemura and had to escape an apartment building.

So there I am, unexpectedly over encumbered (not sure if it was a glitch from the updates/expansion or I was hording legendaries), all perks reset, without a clue as to how I'm going to build my character. After a quick analysis, I dumped some points into health regen, shotgun and mobility related perks (reflex skill tree).

Long story short, I kill off what appear to be heavily armored soldiers (they dropped legendary mats), with the greatest of ease and escape the building. I go through a sequence with Silverhand & Hanako and I'm back on the streets.

Wanting to test out the new gameplay mechanics, I find a gang and point a gun at them, to initiate combat. In the process, I grab aggro from the police, kill the gang and a cop, while escaping to a rooftop till everything cools down.

I had fun.

If I hadn't been here on the forums this morning, I 'd have no idea that they implimented level scaling.

What I want to know, are some of you complaining, just to complain? Have you played the game yet? Have you given it a chance? Or is it pure speculation?

Based off of my experience last night, I'd say level scaling is not a problem (which is contrary to my overall opinion on the matter).

---

 

[GrimReaper801]

What I want to know, are some of you complaining, just to complain? Have you played the game yet? Or is it speculation?

Based off of my experience last night, I'd say level scaling isn't a problem (which is contrary to my overall opinion of the matter).

It's a knee jerk reaction to the change. People are resistant to change in general and it gets worse when it's change concerning something they like.

People simply hear level scaling and immediately go off because it's been done wrong many times before. I admit I was reluctant about it at first too because I've played games like TES: Oblivion in which level scaling completely ruins your sense of progression. Yet, here, when you take the time to analyse the change and adapt to them, it becomes clear that level scaling is not ruining the sense of progression at all. You will still be essentially a god amongst men in due time.

 

[ShinAkira00]

Exactly.
People seem to conflate "being the most powerful man/woman within the game's world" with "litterally 180°-NoScope-Oneshotting the most powerful of powerful enemies (god forbid armies)" as if they accidentally walked in the vicinity of it. Hopefully the level of sarcasm comes across.
Throughout the entire game we can find instances where the ingame world swallowed people whole. Some examples: Meredith dying depending on your choices. Bug8ear being trapped in the net about to go in limbo. The myriad of nameless people being found dead all over the shop. The Cyberpsycho's are effectively people in over their head (forced or not) The Aldecaldos being near extinct until you aid them becoming one of the most powerful Nomads. But also the already mentioned accomplishments by V. Executed a heist any other person within the world of CP77 would call 'batshit crazy'. Singlehandedly defeating the most legendary of characters such as a highly esteemed corpo bodyguard, a hunter-killer cyborg, entire gangs and Ultimately responsible for (provided the ending) halfway destroying the most powerful and influential corporation.
Just because people cant breeze through the game on easymode near the end and that they actually need to use 2 braincells, makes them have their knickers in a twist. [...]

And another thing... I increasingly so get the impression that everyone wants and believes they should be able to complete the game while playing on ultra-nightmarine-tryhard mode because its what some random dude on the internet did while making it look easy.
'hard' mode is and should be hard for a reason and therefore should require you to keep being at the top of your game. Not play like a noob as if on easymode from the halfway mark because 'RPG'.

Yea I'm getting my ass kicked on the hardest difficulty but that's what I expected it to be.

There is some validity to the argument that stealth hacking doesn't feel like it got much support, I can agree with that. It's definitely not terrible, just not as good as the other more direct play styles.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2023

What I want to know, are some of you complaining, just to complain? Have you played the game yet? Have you given it a chance? Or is it pure speculation?

Based off of my experience last night, I'd say level scaling is not a problem (which is contrary to my overall opinion on the matter).

---

Honestly I think it's ppl who played on the hardest difficulty before, finding that it's not easy anymore. This is specifically for stealth/Netrunning. If you're running a solo build then most likely you are fine. I don't believe Stealth/Netrunning is as bad as they claim but it does feel like it went from the most OP to the worst option instead of somewhere in the middle. I believe that is a fair criticism.

 

[Mz_Winter]

I don't believe Stealth/Netrunning is as bad as they claim but it does feel like it went from the most OP to the worst option instead of somewhere in the middle. I believe that is a fair criticism.

At higher levels, it's manageable. Before you have access to T5 decks and quick hacks, it's just miserable.

 

[TeddiTalk]

At higher levels, it's manageable. Before you have access to T5 decks and quick hacks, it's just miserable.

Nah I say Tier 3 is where it manageable. It feels like your build coming alive around this tier. This is around level 25-30 for me though. I think RAM cost is just too low at lower levels.

 

[Operation40]

Yea I'm getting my ass kicked on the hardest difficulty but that's what I expected it to be.

There is some validity to the argument that stealth hacking doesn't feel like it got much support, I can agree with that. It's definitely not terrible, just not as good as the other more direct play styles.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2023

Honestly I think it's ppl who played on the hardest difficulty before, finding that it's not easy anymore. This is specifically for stealth/Netrunning. If you're running a solo build then most likely you are fine. I don't believe Stealth/Netrunning is as bad as they claim but it does feel like it went from the most OP to the worst option instead of somewhere in the middle. I believe that is a fair criticism.

exact opposite for me. played on hardest difficulty before and now I find it too easy, because everything is coming down to my level. from watson to center city to pacifica - it's all the same
and it's unrewarding, because all loot is my level.

no more big challenges for big rewards

 

[Paszkowski]

It's a single player game published 2 years ago. Who gave the CDP rights to mess in game core, that was sold in a state like it was presented to me in a shop. This isn't mmo game that is constantly changing and players sign up for this, accepting specific terms of service. I feel that CDP wanted to break, and in fact they broke, some non-written rule, that a single-player game once sold must not be changed in it's core. Here a game core is for example the player scalling, that ruined fun for many, including myself. To this day I was thinking that such changes can be done only by the modders who aren't supported by creators. But nobody force to use mods. CDP also claims we aren't forced to use 2.0, we can stay without. Yeah but then we loose access to many really fine functionalities in 2.0, thus we cut off ourself of a lot of fun. Here CDP plays a modder god who can do anything. Why didn't they make 2.0 without scaling and messing in the core, they could leave it for another stand-alone patch. We'd have better way of choice. Their attitute doesn't seem right to me. I consider returning to previous version, but I'm undecided since some new functions are really good. This way or another I trusted CDP and even bought Liberty before installing 2.0, but then I lost much of this trust, CP2077 is no longer the same good game to me like it was for last months.

 

[nwg5817]

Plus one against level scaling.

It was a lazy way to answer the question of how to fit the phantom Liberty content into cp2077. If you do the phantom Liberty content after transmission you're overleveled for the rest of the game. Do you extend out the rest of base cp or leave it and they come out face rolling everything. Instead of figuring out the difficult answer to that question level scaling.

Learning about the areas and what's too hard what's easy where all the difficulty is is gone. Go anywhere do anything fight anything it's all the same. Now you could have made the map a little bit easier to figure out where you should go based on the level but it was also in the piggy back guide of each location and its level range.

Originally this game was meant to be the video game version of a tabletop game. Level scaling isn't a thing in table top. If you return to the same area you would be stronger than the people in that area.