Make ST great again

[betraymechino]

For some time, for own pleasure I've been making "my ideal" changes to some forgotten cards. Inspired by this thread, I decided to approach handbuff (other archetypes will follow later).
In my opinion these changes might turn handbuff into more reliable archetype, instead a meme-y "draw Aglaïs/Skaggs and place all boost on them".


Let's start with two bronzes:

Simple 1 power buff, plus added Devotion ability, to make it more flexible.

As Saboteur doubles Agitator's ability, i think it would serve better as an engine that helps you with draw dependency. Didn't draw your boost target? Sabouteur is here to help you.

Freixenet and Sirssa offer a slightly different form of handbuff. Instead simply boosting a unit, they give Vitality. From top of my head it makes difference in two instances: if Vitality is placed on Torque, each 1 boost could potentially go to a different unit, and if placed on Schirrú, it gives you some flexibility in what power Schirrú you want to play.

Both Farseer and Milva have been dead for a while now, so why not make them engine pay-offs for handbuff?
Farseer is very similar to its beta version - placement matters, and for example boost from Vitality won't trigger Farseer's ability, while Milva is a full-blown power engine, that can grow pretty fast, if not controlled.

Talking about Schirrú...

...he needs to stop destroying self. Even if it's only under Devotion.

And two provision buffs:

Both Smuggler and Circle seem to be overpriced, compared to their counterparts, so let's give them 1 provision buffs.


What do you guys think? It's entirely possible that these changes, if implemented, might make handbuff archetype crazy strong, but honestly, I wouldn't mind if for one season handbuff was the top dog.



Harmony and Elves
Dwarves, Traps and misc
Custom Cards 1: Traps

 

[EduFerraz]

I only not agree with The 2 boost on farseer, i think should be only 1.

Or If 2 He at least should cost 5p

 

[betraymechino]

Reason it's boosting by 2 is because Farseer is not an active engine. It requires you to boost a unit in hand every turn, for Farseer to boost every turn. So either you have to combine it with Smuggler/Dunca (which is easy to disrupt), or play a handbuffing card every turn. And it's 4 provisions, to kinda match Aretuza Adept, which can boost self by even more each turn.

 

[Barracuda88]

At first glance, between Aretuza Adepts and Messengers of the Sea, your Far Seer and Milva suggestions seem really underwhelming, but then we have to remember the leader ability, which screws everything up with its potential for OP combo swings. And then there's stupid spam-cheese to worry about from cards like Megascope+Idarran. That said, a 4-power 6p Far Seer that boosts once for every point of handbuff in the round would still not be as OP as the current Messenger of the Sea (which exists, spam cheese and all), so why the hell shouldn't it be, even with the leader considered? Meanwhile, although I kind of love the idea of Milva joining the handbuff archetype, I'm also thinking it should maybe stay the same 3-7 immune plus its current ability for plus 1 for every ST unit played, BUT it should be given resilient, and possibly even conditional double-resilience.

 

[Gyg]

I would really like to improve the control of Dwarf decks as they are not the greediest deck out there.
It can be achieved by making Pirotechnican do targetable damage (reduced to 3 damage) and Berserker could be Zeal, Order: [barricade] damage an enemy unit by 1 and self by one. Cooldown 1.

 

[betraymechino]

Harmony:

To be honest, I don't think Harmony needs that much to be relevant again. With the recent buff to Barnabas, few additional buffs should make Harmony playable, in my opinion.

Let's start with the obvious one

Just slam Echo on it! Please!
I wanted it ever since the mechanic was introduced. I've seen proposals to buff Water by provisions - to 10, but I don't think that solves the issue Harmony has with being too slow to set up their necessary engines. Echo solves it, as you can easily place two engines in one turn, in two rounds.

Second obvious one is Saskia

Added "and play" to the Deploy ability and reduced power to 4. One of the reasons Assimilate is playable, is because it can be proc'ed twice in one turn with Braathens. Harmony needs exactly that.

Next is Abandoned Girl

I always loved the idea behind that card, but it seemed to miss something. That something is the ability to also transform into Dryad Fledgling. A nice way to proc Harmony, while enabling the tag to be used second time.

Last two are simple provision or power changes

Great Oak has stopped being a staple in ST long time ago, it's time to give him a little bit of love at least. Trained Hawk just seems too weak at 3 power.


Elves:

In my opinion Elves need more new cards rather than reworking old ones, so I focused mostly on leveling up those left behind over the years.

Blue Mountain Elite is way to situational. With this change it becomes much more playable.

Neophytes are just too slow and rarely find any value with the Order and restriction to Elves. This change makes playing Vernossiel's Commando a lot less awkward, as well as is a nice counter to NG spies.

Milaen simply needs a provision buff, Bomber needs increased power to compensate randomnes of the ability, and I want to believe that making Sappers worse Pellar was just a misunderstanding.

And Waylay...

Currently the card is in a limbo between being trash and pretty good. With this change I want to make it a card, that you can somewhat build a deck around, with the help of Vanadáin and Simlas. It also can make Feign Death a bit less awkward.

 

[Barracuda88]

Seems this spawn and play Saskia idea has been picking up speed, but I personally REALLY dislike the idea of "playing" a token. It just makes no sense to me. I think what she needs to spawn and play instead is a bronze harmony unit. And your 4-11 line suits THAT a lot better than spawn and play a token ability.

I also like the suggestion that the sapper was a misunderstanding Yes, let's go with that.

 

[betraymechino]

Seems this spawn and play Saskia idea has been picking up speed, but I personally REALLY dislike the idea of "playing" a token.

Yeah, I can see how that might be awkward. The other version I had was this

which makes Saskia more universal option, but it felt a bit repetitive.

I'm also thinking it should maybe stay the same 3-7 immune plus its current ability for plus 1 for every ST unit played, BUT it should be given resilient, and possibly even conditional double-resilience.

I am really tired of current Milva's ability, it never seems to fit any archetype for me, and I'd prefer to leave Resilience to Dwarves.

I would really like to improve the control of Dwarf decks as they are not the greediest deck out there.
It can be achieved by making Pirotechnican do targetable damage (reduced to 3 damage) and Berserker could be Zeal, Order: [barricade] damage an enemy unit by 1 and self by one. Cooldown 1.

I actually like the randomness in Dwarves damage, though I agree that a bit more control might be useful, but I went with a different direction for Pyrotechnician.

 

[Anaeto]

If you don't want to spawn and play Saskia. Make her and forest protector 10p. ST needs 10p cards that dont suck. Filavandrel should be 10p too and i would prefer water of brokilon is 10p over echo tag. Echo worsens draws so i dont really like it
Also temperings need to boost by 6 and give 1 armor. 5 for 4 faction special is powercrept in this meta but if you donthave options you will keep playing the card. I think freixnet is fine as he is. He is lore friendly. Hand buff vitality is too strong on hamadrayds i think. Morenn could use a buff as well, i suggest +1 to her base power and damage. that way like ida shes a 9 for 6 without tech

 

[betraymechino]

Dwarves:

Similarly to Harmony, I don't think Dwarves need big changes to be a viable archetype.

There are two notable changes. Both focus on additonal pay-off from Armor giving abilities of Miner, Chariot and Paulie Dahlberg.

Dwarves lack bronze engines, beside Berserkers there isn't really much. This is a support engine.

Yarpern's change makes him a more flexible card. You can get vaule from his Armor throughout the round, as well as a additional damage.

+1 Armor on Mercenary allows Dwarf decks to play some tech units.

Marauder's change makes him simpler, but more effective. Also more useful in Harmony decks.

Even with buff to Dwarf Berserkers, I think that Munro deserves a provision buff, and Tempering shouldn't be more restricted Swallow Potion.



Traps:

While hated by many, this is one of my favourite archetypes, offering a very different gameplay, so obviously I couldn't ignore Traps.
Once again, I'd like to see more support for Traps by adding new cards, but there is few that could get some buff.

While still staple in Trap deck, it's used more as a necessity than for it's value. Such basic Trap can easily be at 4 provisions.

Mahakam Horn is heavily powercrept and rarely used, even in full-on Trap decks. Even at 7 provisions it might not be that great.

And lastly, Iorveth's Gambit...
This card has no place at all. Horrendously high provision cost and RNG embodded into the ability, makes the card unplayable. Plus, as a special card, it takes up the slot you'd want to use on tech cards.

So it's time to bring Iorveth: Meditation back, though not a midrange card like in beta, but as a proper tutor for Traps. Inspired by Dead Man's Tongue, it offers more reliability, when playing Traps.

Post automatically merged: Oct 10, 2021

Misc:

These are the cards that don't necessary fit any precise archetype, but could be often used in various decks as a support.

Saesenthessis was nerfed back when no unit was reigning, and even after no unit was nerfed too, the dragon didn't receive a proper buff. While mostly uninteractable bank for boost could still be a problem in some kind of semi-no units, with this requirements, it makes it more fair.

Dryad Grouvekeeper in current form can't find place in any current archetype. Maybe this version will find some spot in Symbiosis decks focused on Vitality?

Saov Ainmhi'dh is unplayable at 9 provisions. Even at 8. At 7 provisions and boost reduced to 5, it might see play in Spell'tael decks.

Nerfs to Etriel and Muirlega seemed unnecessary back then, and are completely unwarranted now.

4 Bleeding for 4 provisions is just bad. With this change, you don't need to always look for the 4 damage, but in a longer round you can look for better value.

11 provisions on Forest Protector always seemed too much for me. While the card is flexible and finds plenty of play, it still seems to overcosted.

Just bringing Call of the Forest to the level of Royal Decree.


And that's about it.
I've probably missed some cards, but I think that even with only those changes, ST would become a strong faction with multiple playable archetypes.

 

[Raja_Rajan]

Dear @betraymechino, I agree with most of your suggestions. Like the other thread for 'Dream Balance Patch' from @Barracuda88, I really don't want to participate in these wish list. Honestly I am too tired of how the devs treat ST. IMHO, ST is the dev's unwanted middle child and even when they buff, it is almost always be half-hearted and namesake and useless buffs (for example, Dryad Ranger, Forest Whisperers etc are laughably bad changes - I can't believe someone suggested those changes and the team looked at it and approved it). In PoP, first two expansion the devs wanted ST to only play Spelletel. And once it becomes good, they nerf it and give Handbuff now which is again, super junk and weak.

We will have to cry for a couple of months for being in dumpster to get a good playable deck for one month. That is how ST works.

One day the devs will want us to play Dwarves or Elves or Harmony and we will get specific targeted buffs for that while nerfing anything that was playable for ST. And they will nerf that too in a month and the circle of life goes on. Even if all these given buffs in these posts made to next patch notes, ST will still be only good. It won't be broken. But I don't think we will get even 10% of these suggestion for the next six months. But hey.. don't lose hope. In the next patch we may get a buff to Hawker Support (Boost an allied unit by 1. If you control a face up and a face down trap, boost it by 4 instead).

 

[Barracuda88]

Haha, that Ranger change is by far the stupidest "buff" in the history of buffs. Scarred me for life

 

[betraymechino]

That buff is especially funny, when you look at the reason it was "nerfed" before

 

[betraymechino]

That Saskia didn't give me a rest, but when working on a puzzle, I think I finally came up with a rework version, that I'm satisfied with

 

[Barracuda88]

That Saskia didn't give me a rest, but when working on a puzzle, I think I finally came up with a rework version, that I'm satisfied with

View attachment 11259457

Cool-ish, but still awkward, since bronze units go only up to 6 in provision, so this whole "condition" becomes pretty pointless. There's nothing you can play from deck with provision cost of "less" than 4 and there's nothing you can play over 6... Listen, it will be perfectly fine if she just: Deploy: Create and play a bronze Harmony unit. At 4/11, she could even just "play a bronze Harmony unit" from deck. The world is still not going to end, and meta is not going to break even for a season.

 

[Anaeto]

Cool-ish, but still awkward, since bronze units go only up to 6 in provision, so this whole "condition" becomes pretty pointless. There's nothing you can play from deck with provision cost of "less" than 4 and there's nothing you can play over 6... Listen, it will be perfectly fine if she just: Deploy: Create and play a bronze Harmony unit. At 4/11, she could even just "play a bronze Harmony unit" from deck. The world is still not going to end, and meta is not going to break even for a season.

Or they could make her a tall/wide punish dragon that breathes fire and destroys her enemies. Maybe give a devotion requirement. St could use a tall punish card that isn't leader locked. Right now they only have brehen. Make her wide punish ranged and tall punish melee. She should be 10p

 

[starrzz]

Some of these buffs are too much. Instead of catching up with power creep, they would create power creep of their own.

The problem with handbuff is that it like last say too much becuase of the tallness. Which contradicts with the tendency to invest value in carryover rather then tempo in R1. So unless you drew perfectly and can spend one of your big carryover targets in R1 to make a huge tempo play and force opponent to pass at 1 or 2 cards, it's hard to fight for it when they do fight for it. But giving handbuff bronzes evaluation of strong pointslam cards or crazy engine value is too much .

I love the Dwarven Mercenary buff above, and some others: Etriel and the cat, CotF, and others. But the opening post contains some wild buffs I gotta say no to.

 

[Barracuda88]

Some of these buffs are too much. Instead of catching up with power creep, they would create power creep of their own.

The problem with handbuff is that it like last say too much becuase of the tallness. Which contradicts with the tendency to invest value in carryover rather then tempo in R1. So unless you drew perfectly and can spend one of your big carryover targets in R1 to make a huge tempo play and force opponent to pass at 1 or 2 cards, it's hard to fight for it when they do fight for it. But giving handbuff bronzes evaluation of strong pointslam cards or crazy engine value is too much .

I love the Dwarven Mercenary buff above, and some others: Etriel and the cat, CotF, and others. But the opening post contains some wild buffs I gotta say no to.

Like what, though? I went back to specifically look and I saw nothing crazy in there at all, except for I think Vitality would never mechanically work "in your hand" at all. You saying 4 point Agitator is crazy, lmao?

 

[Madlax1992]

Dwarven Agitator - I'm fine with the rework. The reason why this one is awkward is because it is both faction restricted and restricted to its race. Giving it a condition to work with non-Dwarf ST units makes it a consideration.

Vrihedd Saboteur - On this one I don't agree and the reason for that is because deck buffing is NR's specialty. ST has always been about hand buffing and I think it should stay like this. Otherwise Saboteur is an inferior Dandelion. I think he should be similar with Swordmaster, 4/4, restricted on Ranged row, Order: Boost a unit in your hand by 1. Cooldown: 2. Reduce cooldown by 1 whenever you play a boosted unit from your hand.

Freixenet - Vitaly for units in your hand is just not necessary, to be honest. What makes this card unplayable is the fact that you have to have Dryads in your hand to take advantage of the hand buff. Removing the race restriction is enough.

Sirssa - Same opinion as with Freixenet. Vitality for hand units is just awkward. Sirssa is bad because of the very hard deathblow condition. Having 3 damage and a devotion condition to trigger deathblow is enough. She would be a 9 for 7 on deploy and a Harmony engine.

Farseer - This one I like. Seems similar with Elven Scout, although this one only boosts himself once per turn, even if more than one unit gets hand buffed. This is the kind of 4p card hand buff archetype needs to be more consistent, not that Watcher of the Valley.

Milva - Too low power. Make her at least 4 power. Most of the time she won't get more than 1 boost per turn anyway.

Schirru - Ok I guess. This way he could act as a finisher card, wiping the board with only him alive.

Hawker Smuggler - Agree on this one. I mentioned during the card reveals that existing hand buff cards should get some buffs too and specifically mentioned that this one needs to be 1 provision less, considering how easy he can be disrupted/removed.

Circle of Life - Same as with Hawker Smuggler. When Nature's Gift/Symbiosis was a thing, I didn't want this card to be 4p. But since that archetype is now power crept I think it is high time this gets to 4p.

Water of Brokilon - That Echo thing is actually quite ingenious. Rather than making it 10p, keeping it the way it is with Echo is much better for Harmony, since you can play it again.

Saskia - A tough one. The best option for her, IMO, is to play a bronze unit from your deck and slam an effect depending on what race that unit is. Is it an Elf? Damage a random enemy unit by 2. Is it a Dwarf? Boost him by 2 and give him 1 armor. A Dryad? Vitality 3. The problem here is that you have other Human, Beast and Treant bronze units who won't get an effect is played. Would this make Saskia too good? Don't think so, considering Harmony's current state.

Abandoned Girl - Ok. This has been suggested ever since the card was introduced, IIRC.

The Greak Oak - 1 provision buff has been demanded for this card for over a year. I think originally, when Harmony used to be good, this one used to be 12p rather than 13p.

Trained Hawk - 6 for 5 and an engine. That is ok.

Blue Mountain Elite - This will get the same treatment as all cards playing for 3 and damaging for 3. It won't see any play. Playing for 4 and damaging by 3 a unit, for a reliable 7, well that makes it more attractive.

Neophyte - Don't know about this one. I don't think it is ok to give him both Zeal and remove his race restriction. I think it should be one of these only. Lore-wise I don't think it fits, turning Human units into Deadeyes, or Treants, or Beasts, etc.

Milaen - Still sucks IMO. 8 for 8 is not inherently bad, the problem is that in the current state of the game, almost all cards are supposed to provide more value than their provision cost. Sure, removal has more value, but it is still and 8 for 8.

Dol Blathanna Bomber - Totally fine with this. Standard 7 for 4p card.

Vrihedd Sapper - This got changed recently to a 4/4, which I guess is fine. After all, this will always be a tech card, like most purifies outside of NG.

Waylay - I like this change better than the 3 damage it does right now, which is not bad either.

Pyrotechnician - I like this change as well. Lowering damage by 1 and giving cooldown is something Dwarf bronze units needed.

Yarpen Zigrin - This could make him a bit too good. 9/9 on deploy, an engine and an order that allows him to stack armor and convert it to damage. I think a provision nerf, if not 2 should be applied as well. Especially since Dwarves have many ways to apply armor. You've got those neutral ones who apply armor on hand units, you've got the leader, you have Miner, Tempering, Paulie, Chariots, etc.

Dwarven Mercenary - This is fine. It becomes 2 armor with the Mahakam Forge leader.

Mahakam Marauder - Not too sure about this one. Generally bonded units play for 6, on the first unit drop and for 8 on the second unit drop. The only difference between playing one and not both is that with just 1 you reach the 7 value in 3 turns, rather than on deploy.

Munro Bruys - Him being 11p has been suggested for a while. Buffing Berserkers solved the issue partially, but he plays for 14 only. 1 provision buff seems necessary to make him indispensable.

Tempering - Here I don't agree, and the reason for that is because Dwarves as an archetype can generate value from Armor, through units such as Yarpen and Brouver. I think Tempering is fine the way it is now.

Incinerating Trap - Totally reasonable.

Mahakam Horn - I think this should be a 6p trap as it provides 8 points of value. The only decks I've seen this getting play is that meme with Caldwell anyway.

Iorveth - Make Iorveth the trap version of Simlas. Good suggestion.

Saesenthessis - I don't have any opinions here. Never really understood the purpose this card other than being non-interactive in no-unit ST.

Dryad Groovekeeper - Still awkward IMO. No idea how to rework this card to both fit into an archetype and be playable.

Saov - The moment I saw this card being revealed I knew it had to be a 7p one to be played. Sacrificing one boost is fine.

Etriel & Muirlega - Pretty much what is being asked from the devs for months.

Making a Bomb - You miss the point of this card. People play this card for the damage or for row disruption. Or with Madoc. Never for its bleeding. Bleeding is a bonus only. And 6 bleeding is awkward. This card is fine the way it is.

Forest Protector - Reasonable buff.

Call of the Forest - Ambivalent. People want this to be the same provision cost as Royal Decree ignoring that this card is better than Royal Decree. It is both a Nature card, synergizing with Symbiosis and gives boost by 1. Not saying it shouldn't be 9p. I just don't think it is a must.

 

[Barracuda88]

...

Call of the Forest - Ambivalent. People want this to be the same provision cost as Royal Decree ignoring that this card is better than Royal Decree. It is both a Nature card, synergizing with Symbiosis and gives boost by 1. Not saying it shouldn't be 9p. I just don't think it is a must.

It SHOULD be better than a neutral card that does the same or similar thing and cost the same. This has been a thing in gwent for a long time, until lately suddenly all the neutral cards are getting buffed to be better than faction cards. And CoF is also worse than RD, because it can only tutor ST units.