My favourite game, now dead

[Spectral_Warrior]

Why am I here? For three things:

1: To let CDPR know that as a customer that has purchased this game twice (PS and PC), and preordered and purchased PL. I am not at all happy with their combat changes.

2: in the hopes that after feedback I hear about some balance/gameplay changes in an upcoming patch.

3: Treading water until a perfect (here is something that recreates the 1.63 netrunner combat experience) mod gets released.

And for every one of 'you' there is also one that counters you.
For example: I also (pre)purchased everything at all instances and I love the game still. Beter now than before.
So here I am hoping CDPR wont listen to 'you'.
And like this, theres a myriad of voices saying something.

Btw, I've quoted you @Kraxe13, but this is supposed to be more generic.

In the end we'll find, or not find, people that either like or dislike the game.
Speaking for myself, the forums can become weary with all the various voices, so I tend to not venture here as often anymore. I'm then rather actually inside the game.
And opposite of me there's also probably gonna be someone who spams these forums...

 

[Iferrebee]

Well the game on console will kind of die off

No new content, no mods.

On PC it will last a while longer

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Well the game on console will kind of die off

No new content, no mods.

On PC it will last a while longer

Yeah but who cares about "game dead"
Nobody has any control over when anyone else will play the game. This entire foreboding means exactly nothing.

 

[Kraxe13]

And for every one of 'you' there is also one that counters you.
For example: I also (pre)purchased everything at all instances and I love the game still. Beter now than before.
So here I am hoping CDPR wont listen to 'you'.
And like this, theres a myriad of voices saying something.

Btw, I've quoted you @Kraxe13, but this is supposed to be more generic.

In the end we'll find, or not find, people that either like or dislike the game.
Speaking for myself, the forums can become weary with all the various voices, so I tend to not venture here as often anymore. I'm then rather actually inside the game.
And opposite of me there's also probably gonna be someone who spams these forums...

I said this before earlier in a different thread, I understand if you missed it.

You can see the full post here:

Why did you kill stealth netrunning? | Page 4 | Forums - CD PROJEKT RED

But I will give you a semi different version below...

I am happy that you find the new version better than the old way, but that new way needed not come at the expense of the old way. Both ways of playing should be present in the game.

It does not matter that net running is still powerful, nor does it matter that you personally (the person reading this) finds it now more enjoyable. What matters is that there is a subset of players (like myself) who liked the old play style more. And that was eliminated on a paid dlc, basically without warning. Yes they redid the build trees, yes that was publicized, but they did not really emphasize the elimination of a playstyle with those new trees.

I was eager to play this new story line. I made a special near complete clear corpo net runner (before the dlc hit) AND a nomad net runner, cleared to the point (I thought) the new dlc story would begin, AND I made a new streetkid character, so I would not have to waste time making a new character. Just in anticipation for this DLC. I wanted to see all of the dialogue options, I wanted to see all the new street encounters, all from a myriad of character arcs and perspectives. I was excited and it feels like all of that excitement for the DLC was upended by the elimination of the gameplay that I liked to do.

To me it feels like it was a bit of a bait and switch. Here is a game that I loved, and then after they took my money, they changed the gameplay to something that I hate. It has been awhile now and I STILL have not played PL yet. I just can't bring myself to level that far. I have not found a replacement build that I like, and new netrunner builds now just make me nostalgic for how fun the combat felt just 2 months ago.

I get that the new way feels a lot like the anime. Fine, I can see that appeal. But I wanted to play my netrunner like T-Bug was shown (vs V) in the cinematic, no weapons, just pure hacking. I loved that style. I played this game ALOT, and I always did the same build. Each and every time.

I don't know why old netrunner way was entirely eliminated for the game, this is a single player game. If you or anyone else don't like that build, don't play it I guess? But don't eliminate it. Especially when you (CDPR) knows it had fans.

 

[CS554]

I think everyone and their dog knows this by now, but in case it really needs repeating:
- no more suppressed revolvers
- (early game) suppressed pistols not one-shoting (low-level) enemies
- (early game) quckhacks not one-shoting (low-level) enemies
- reworked tracing mechanics

Disclaimer: My experience is based on two half-hour long playsessions where I've stared a new game first wanting to play as a silent assassin, then as a stealthy hacker and both attempts can be summarized as pure misery. I played on highest difficulty and I didn't savescum...
For all I know, both playstyles would eventually become more enjoyable, or at least tolerable. I will never know.
I've seen more than enough evidence of 2.0 being designed to push players toward active combat, chaos and blowing shit up. I mean, those words literally sums up the new "intelligence" perk tree.

I wonder how much impact difficulty level has. On normal things work very well except for attribute checks.

I like 2.0. It streamlines in a positive way away things that earlier required grind. I played high Body and Int character, with 15 Cool I think. There are couple of annoyances. First is to relearn certain things like I found Nue pistol one shotting enemies with silencer from stealth. Unity might work too.

Despite having 20 Intelligence, I never took Overdrive to final level to enable Blooddrive or whatever it's called. Instead I used lower level quickhacks with lower RAM requirements in part of que. Kept alternating with takedowns, silenced pistol and hacking when completing gigs in stealth way. This is how I used to play before 2.0 and in most situations things worked pretty much the same.

Huge plus from me is that since enemies are level scaled, I could kept alternating gigs from different fixers, versus doing them more or less in same order, as some players wanted more structure and sense progress with fixers. Even gigs from each fixer still come available in particular order, I can at least do gigs for another fixer before returning to previous one.

 

[Guest 3847602]

I wonder how much impact difficulty level has. On normal things work very well except for attribute checks.

Well, I can tell you that it was immediately noticeable on "very hard", don't know about "normal", and in all honesty, I'm not at all interested in finding out anymore. I'm back to 1.63 and I don't feel like I'm missing out anything noteworthy.
Between forced level-scaling, level-scaled skillchecks, revamped mutilated netrunning, omnipresent NCPD, 2.0 is without any doubt something that I don't want to waste one additional minute of my life on.


I get the idea how the new netrunning and stealth is supposed to work, but all those lengthy explanations I've seen makes me uncertain if this is:
a) using the exploit and playing the game in a way not intended by game's designers (cause it looks so bad, repetitive and boring)
or
b) it is 100% intentional and CP 2.0 has the worst stealth mechanics in any big budget-game
I'm not sure which is worse...

 

[SpookyFX]

"omnipresent NCPD"

LOL I was just thinking last night that everytime I turn a conner the same beat cop was walking past me.
I like the hidden police turrets everywhere but not the magic cops. And I never play a bad hobo killer in these games. I keep wanting to but just do not for some reason so the cops EVERYWHERE have no effect on me.

Or maybe I just like the turrets as INFORCERS berceuse it reminds me of the fallout universe where they had them in stores and even some homes.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

I said this before earlier in a different thread, I understand if you missed it.

You can see the full post here:

Why did you kill stealth netrunning? | Page 4 | Forums - CD PROJEKT RED

But I will give you a semi different version below...

I am happy that you find the new version better than the old way, but that new way needed not come at the expense of the old way. Both ways of playing should be present in the game.

It does not matter that net running is still powerful, nor does it matter that you personally (the person reading this) finds it now more enjoyable. What matters is that there is a subset of players (like myself) who liked the old play style more. And that was eliminated on a paid dlc, basically without warning. Yes they redid the build trees, yes that was publicized, but they did not really emphasize the elimination of a playstyle with those new trees.

I was eager to play this new story line. I made a special near complete clear corpo net runner (before the dlc hit) AND a nomad net runner, cleared to the point (I thought) the new dlc story would begin, AND I made a new streetkid character, so I would not have to waste time making a new character. Just in anticipation for this DLC. I wanted to see all of the dialogue options, I wanted to see all the new street encounters, all from a myriad of character arcs and perspectives. I was excited and it feels like all of that excitement for the DLC was upended by the elimination of the gameplay that I liked to do.

To me it feels like it was a bit of a bait and switch. Here is a game that I loved, and then after they took my money, they changed the gameplay to something that I hate. It has been awhile now and I STILL have not played PL yet. I just can't bring myself to level that far. I have not found a replacement build that I like, and new netrunner builds now just make me nostalgic for how fun the combat felt just 2 months ago.

I get that the new way feels a lot like the anime. Fine, I can see that appeal. But I wanted to play my netrunner like T-Bug was shown (vs V) in the cinematic, no weapons, just pure hacking. I loved that style. I played this game ALOT, and I always did the same build. Each and every time.

I don't know why old netrunner way was entirely eliminated for the game, this is a single player game. If you or anyone else don't like that build, don't play it I guess? But don't eliminate it. Especially when you (CDPR) knows it had fans.

A lot here and I'm not about to invalidate that. In return I feel for you that things changed on you for the worse to your belief.

I'm not sure in what way specificaly both can exist side by side, but lets assume that if this were possible then sure, having both options would always be better.

Alas CDPR choose differently and yeah, maybe the communication was not specific enough, especially considering what you explained above.

As for your last remark, that is something everybody should observe. In a game where you can build a character into something specific, that automatically (should) mean that not all way are for you (at any time or ever)

 

[Kraxe13]

A lot here and I'm not about to invalidate that. In return I feel for you that things changed on you for the worse to your belief.

I'm not sure in what way specificaly both can exist side by side, but lets assume that if this were possible then sure, having both options would always be better.

Alas CDPR choose differently and yeah, maybe the communication was not specific enough, especially considering what you explained above.

As for your last remark, that is something everybody should observe. In a game where you can build a character into something specific, that automatically (should) mean that not all way are for you (at any time or ever)

I can think of a few ways. Although a bunch of them should have happened during the development process sadly.
But a more immediate fix (and I have not worked out the numbers for this), would be to introduce a new deck that pulls back the changes to combat to somewhere before 2.0. Maybe it ups damage of white thru purple hacks, and also blocks traces, but cannot be upgraded to “yellow” status and also prevents the use of over-clocking? Something like that?

I don’t know, TBH I am quickly losing interest in the game. It’s gone from something I played relentlessly, and now I don’t know what to do with it, or if I should even bother trying.
There are plenty of games (and game companies) that seem to actually want me as a customer, and it’s becoming clear that CDPR does not. I am not really a Witcher fan, so really this company is not really offering me a lot or reasons to follow them anymore.

 

[Nixilos]

I don’t know, TBH I am quickly losing interest in the game.

I feel this, though my reasons are a bit different from yours. Are you on PC? There are already mods that remove the trace etc. I have 1.6 backed up on a usb just waiting for me to finish this playthrough I'm stubbornly trudging through.

I'm a bit worried that it's gonna leave a bad taste for a while for me but I also want to give it a fair shake. It's rough when you've already played something to death and then you force yourself to play what is for you a worse version of the same thing. As barebones as some of the old systems were it was just the right gameplay loop for me. For me this update broke those bones.

1.6 still exists though and it's up to us to go back to what we love without being too salty about losing the good new stuff. If you or anyone else are on console I hope CDPR provides a way to downgrade there as well. It really should have just been DLC only, would have made it simple.

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

I don’t know, TBH I am quickly losing interest in the game. It’s gone from something I played relentlessly, and now I don’t know what to do with it, or if I should even bother trying.

Feeling the same way. Every patch/update prior to Phantom Liberty I'd start a new playthrough, right to the end. Do every gig, scanner hustle and activity. I finished the PL content and it's just killed my interest. I just stopped, it's weird. If this was 1.5 or 1.6 I would've said CP2077 was a contender for an all-time personal favourite game, now I'm not so sure.

 

[SpookyFX]

It really should have just been DLC only, would have made it simple.

THIS, so much this...

 

[playerzeroed]

it wasnt completely true when cdpr employes say "we love to play cp2077". when they announced that they had fixed wall of the stash, it was half true. they fixed it for 1.63 saves. this means that they never tested this patch with 2.0 gamesaves. so, i suppose that next several patches they will collect data from players and maybe even play by themselves.
It's hard to enjoy a game that half works if you love it for more than just its story, i agree. i'd have already released at least two mini-patches to fix some obvious bugs. but it is ok to stay silent too.

 

[CS554]

Well, I can tell you that it was immediately noticeable on "very hard", don't know about "normal", and in all honesty, I'm not at all interested in finding out anymore. I'm back to 1.63 and I don't feel like I'm missing out anything noteworthy.
Between forced level-scaling, level-scaled skillchecks, revamped mutilated netrunning, omnipresent NCPD, 2.0 is without any doubt something that I don't want to waste one additional minute of my life on.


I get the idea how the new netrunning and stealth is supposed to work, but all those lengthy explanations I've seen makes me uncertain if this is:
a) using the exploit and playing the game in a way not intended by game's designers (cause it looks so bad, repetitive and boring)
or
b) it is 100% intentional and CP 2.0 has the worst stealth mechanics in any big budget-game
I'm not sure which is worse...

Three years is awfully long time with any product like this and even for me, whom this is the best game I have played the ever ongoing metamorphosis has been at times frustrating. For me story content, which considering all interconnecting pieces of game is just something else, even though some requested and implemented features weren't always something I felt were really improvements on road to 1.63.

But regarding the matter at hand there are couple of things that may indicate that something isn't perhaps working properly.

You described earlier how you couldn't find a pistol to one headshot from stealth, there's other player on hard or very hard difficulty who uses the same pistol like I did on normal, Nue. What I get from other topics, there might be situations where perks aren't working properly. I could imagine that damage bonuses from perks would be important on harder difficulties.

There is another possibility, loot scaling, looted / available weapon damage doesn't keep up with the increased NPC health due level scaling.

This post made me remember situation with one of the gigs from Regina during my 2.0 run, "Welcome to America, Comrade" to be precise. I always used to knock workers out and then Short Circuit the first robot. Then knockout or kill guards and Short Circuit the other robot. On my 2.0 run I couldn't. Short Circuit simply didn't do enough damage. Also first time I tried I couldn't queu hacks, like Sonic Shock and SC. Reloaded and let that gig alone for a while, got back later and that time was able to put couple of hacks in que, but my SC still wasn't doing enough damage, so I just ended up leaving bots patrolling and took everybody else out when completing that mission undetected.

Just bothers me, isn't level scaling is supposed to prevent situations like that? Unfortunately I don't remember what quality my SC quickhack was and if there was a possibility to get higher quality one I had in deck at that point. I really don't pay that much attention and play on normal for a reason. I'm into story first.

I don't know if it makes any fundamental difference, but there's also that not all quickhacks work as intended. I don't think RAM requirements are always correct either. Iconic System Reset didn't worked at all. First I tried it to some robot and it didn't do anything, so I figured it doesn't work for Robots and tried it to human NPC and, no it didn't do anything with him neither. Looks like there are still things in process.

 

[Khan_Temujin]

I have only been playing since 1.61 as I wanted to give CDPR time to fix the mess that the game was on release.
I enjoyed it immensely. The variety of play style, weapons and the city itself. I have clocked over 500 hours so far.
I enjoyed PL but 2.0/2.1 has screwed this game beyond recognition.
Let me count the ways...

1. Loot is worthless, beyond scrapping for parts.

2. Clothes are almost all useless cosmetics, beyond scrapping for parts.

3. Mods are next to useless once you get a couple of iconics as I don't imagine the negative aspects are worth it, beyond scrapping for parts.

4. Upgrading that is insanely expensive with ZERO options to buy the parts you need.

5. More bugs than a bait shop.
There goes Tiny Mike in a seated position chasing the car he was just sitting in around the corner.
I wonder who those two NPC's are standing hundreds of metres off the ground about to be run over by Hanako's float.
The list goes on...

6. A skill tree that now prefers you play to predetermined play styles based on a cartoon.

7. Cops agroing you just for walking past them... or more ironically, they agro you for doing their damn jobs for them with NCPD side quests.

8. The streets of NC have become Death Race 2000, with cars smashing and careening all over the streets and pedestrians.
Worse still is when they run in front of your vehicle and you get flagged wanted and spend the next 5 minutes getting the Badges off your a$$.

9. NPC's pathing getting stuck in numerous gigs.

10. Removing mods for various weapons (Revolvers etc), especially iconics.

11. Level gating ALL major options for game play. This one is the WORST offense!
Want to merge Delamain's aspects rather than resetting or destroying the core, well 15 Int is not enough if you are a too high a level.
Want to open a door for River in The Hunt quest, well 17 Technical Skill is not enough if you are too high a level.
This is just a couple of the HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of options for game play that have been removed by barring doors, hacks and options for decisions because they are removed from you if your character is too high a level.
What is the point of levelling up your character if you are punished for it?!?


I still like the game, but compared to before Phantom Liberty CDPR has taken at least 10 giant leaps backwards with this game.
I am sure there are a hundred other steps back that I don't even know about because of my play style.
I am so glad I waited a year before first playing this game.
I can't begin to imagine how frustrating it must have been to play on day one.

 

[Nixilos]

I still like the game, but compared to before Phantom Liberty CDPR has taken at least 10 giant leaps backwards with this game.
I am so glad I waited a year before first playing this game. I can't begin to imagine how frustrating it must have been to play on day one.

We're probably in the minority but I agree with you. I dunno how people like rerolling cyberware stats instead of finding upgrades as you play for example. I'm getting around it by refusing to let myself obsess over the stats but you can get like 40% more ranged or melee damage total if you like, and then getting that with 2 relevant secondary stats, let alone getting all the same stats on all the cyberware to have impactful bonuses can be a nightmare if you let it. Melee defense is still required as far as I'm concerned for example so that's 1 down. I play with the minimap turned off so getting blind sided does happen sometimes to me and I bet armor still doesn't help against melee.

I'm probably going to mass buy cheap cyberware at a low level next time to spam rerolls but ugh, why am I doing this again? I liked the old way better even if it being clothing was a bit silly.

 

[Grantig]

Nah, everyone agrees that the levelscaling of skill checks is BS, that the so much praised new police system f* up the whole police system in general, that car traffic behaviour is much worse than in 1.6, etc.
I agree with everything you wrote basically.

Also, I e.g. wanted to check out, if the Kangou pistol ist worth being used and really had a hard time getting it from the original tier 2 to tier 5+, as it took like forever to even get the mats for upgrading one single pistol...

 

[tavellone]

The game was always screwed, quite frankly. If it's screwed now it's just screwed in a different way. Some of your points I think are quite valid and it is shocking that not only is the game still really buggy, but a whole plethora of new bugs have been added as well. However I still think overall the game is better now than it was previously. The scaled stat limits really do need to go, though. If it isn't an accidental addition as a side effect of changing the leveling system and it's actually intended then someone in the design room made a massive blunder.

 

[cartlidge]

Also, I e.g. wanted to check out, if the Kangou pistol ist worth being used and really had a hard time getting it from the original tier 2 to tier 5+, as it took like forever to even get the mats for upgrading one single pistol...

do NCPD events, I upgraded yoshi and chespeake and my cyberdeck to way above the levels I can loot or buy all from basic tier 1 (at lvl 35 and legendary+, currently levelling to ++) I disenchanted everything and have made a bundle of cash (those access points have been funding my lifestyle, well selling the quick hacks obtained from them)

my first playthrough after PL I just stuck with gigs and the mainquests and levelling weapons and cash was hard indeed but there's plenty of weapons so I just switched them in and out as I levelled and new tier guns appeared.

 

[Wragan]

I won't try to defend the leveling mechanic - and the removal of the option to buy parts - my guess would be, it's because the fights are far more reliant on the strength of your weapons - especially before you reach higher tier perks. Before you reach - for example the "Run 'N' Gun" perk for pistols - those high tier, high impact perks, you are solely rely on the strength of your firearms/quickhacks.
With that being said, the whole fighting part of the game feels like they shoved some heavy weights to the part that you always have to have the highest tier possible - which in itself wouldn't be a terrible thing (to some degree, it is logical).

But all this - for me, at least - leads to two critical changes being even worse:

1. Stamina for SHOOTING! Why?! How could anyone think this was a good idea? For me, auto weapons now feel unusable - I hate them now. For melee weapons? Sure, no problem with that. But for f***ing shooting!?

2. The removal of damage giving perks (lower tier ones). Before this BS, you could have perks that give extra % damage for types of weapons. Don't get me wrong, some of the high tier perks feel unique, game changing and all that, but getting them and doing fighting stuff until that point are such a pain in the rear.