Nilfgaard's + Emhyr's Historical Narrative Role (Books & Games Spoilers)

[Ortwyn]

He was also stupid in books and games, he lost two wars and start the third one and would lost it too if Geralt don`t help him, and he attacks Skellige while losing war on continent that is pretty stupid.

He was not present at Sodden Hill, he was not present at Brenna. His generals lost those battles. And he de facto won the Second war (just read the Shilard Fitz-Oesterlen dialogue with Berengar Leuvaarden in the Lady of the Lake):

’Victory is supposed to look like this – the defeated have to buy goods from the winners, and do it gladly, because the goods of the winners and better and cheaper. The winners currency is stronger than the currency of the defeated and the vanquished and they begin to have more confidence in their own. Do you understand me, Baron Fitz-Oesterlen? Are you slowly beginning to distinguish the winners from the losers?’

‘We destroyed their industry and agriculture, according to a predetermined plan,’ Leuvaarden continued calmly. ‘We did this in order to deprive them of their own goods so they have to buy ours. But our merchants and products will not cross through closed or hostile borders.‘

In books and TW2 Emhyr outsmarted most of his opponents (or had them eliminated): The Usurper was overthrown, Calanthe died, Brotherhood of Sorcerers disintegrated, Vilgefortz died, domestic opposition (aep Dahy, de Wett, Skellen etc.) died, Demawend died, Foltest died and the Lodge was destroyed. He is the boss.

And in TW3? There are 4 competent and powerful individuals: Emhyr, Radovid, Philippa Eilhart and Dijkstra, all of them act like fools sooner or later in the game (some of them even became insane).

It's funny but the books actually paint a rosier picture of Nilfgaard even as they also show them as terrifying. Nilfgaard is only invading the nations to the North because Emhyr keeps driving them forward like Alexander the Great.

The reason people want to assassinate him is because he married a foreigner, yes, but also because tens of thousands of their countrymen have died in his stupid pointless wars.

I think most of Nilfgaard's conquests were under him personally.

Some people hate Emhyr so much. The Lady of the Lake citation:

‘Calanthe guarded her granddaughter like the apple of her eye. I could not even dream of kidnap... My relationship with Vilgefortz had cooled considerably, and I still held a grudge against other sorcerers... But the military and aristocracy were pushing me to go to war, encouraging me to attack Cintra. The nation needed living space and the vox populi would be considered this my test as Emperor. I decided to kill two birds with one stone. I would take in one fell swoop, Cintra and Ciri. The rest you know.’

The military and aristocracy were pushing him to go to war! And the Nilfgaardian traitors want to overthrow Emhyr, because thousands of their countrymen have died? Nice joke, but it is all about money and power.

EDIT:

It was just something it`s crossed my mind that he lose three wars if Geralt don`t help him, i mean imagine you kill Radovid and he still lose to guy who think that is smart idea to attack witcher and his friends, well that must be hurt.

CD Projekt RED and their Deus ex machina. Dijkstra has no claim to the throne, he could act only as someone's regent (Adda or Anais?). Politics in Act 3 sucks. Both Radovid's tactical genius (he is insane and he probably leads his armies from the ship) and Dijkstra's attemp to rule the North even though he was born a commoner is not very credible. But the game needs more endings.

It's really kind of interesting as everyone is like, "Nilfgaard will eventually conquer the North because they're unstoppably powerful" and they get their ass kicked every time in increasingly worse fashions.

Say what you will about the North but they're not pushovers.

Well, books suggest that it happens in the future. So it seems to be inevitable.

 

[CTPhipps]

Well, books suggest that it happens in the future. So it seems to be inevitable.

Well, yeah, but Emhyr lives to a ripe old age too.

But gets assassinated in, at least, my games.

Also, the Book White Frost is in 3000 years but is going to happen in Jacques' lifetime in the gameverse. It's also Ice Cthulhu.

I'm one of those guys who doesn't buy most of Emhyr's garbage either.

"I was pushed into war and couldn't control my generals from massacring Cintra" doesn't sell me anything from a man repeatedly called an all-powerful autocrat. Everytime there's something awful about Nilfgaard, Emhyr comes up with an excuse that it's somehow not his fault and the fault of some nebulous nobility or merchant powers.

Maybe he's telling the truth.

Maybe he's just a scumbag.

Who knows.

 

[Ortwyn]

Well, yeah, but Emhyr lives to a ripe old age too.

Exactly, this is a canon.

But gets assassinated in, at least, my games.

Why I am not surprised?

I'm one of those guys who doesn't buy most of Emhyr's garbage either.

"I was pushed into war and couldn't control my generals from massacring Cintra" doesn't sell me anything from a man repeatedly called an all-powerful autocrat. Everytime there's something awful about Nilfgaard, Emhyr comes up with an excuse that it's somehow not his fault and the fault of some nebulous nobility or merchant powers.

Maybe he's telling the truth.

Maybe he's just a scumbag.

He was pushed into war. That doesn't mean he is innocent. I just reject your hypothesis that Nilfgaard is quite a peaceful country and all the wars are Emhyr's doing. Nilfgaard conquered many countries even before Emhyr's rule.

And he didn't lie. Why would he? Geralt was supposed to die at Stygga castle.

 

[CTPhipps]

Exactly, this is a canon.

Absolutely, it's book canon. Game canon is whatever the game developers say it is because unlike Catholic dogma where the word originates, fictional universes are inherently malleable.

Why I am not surprised?

I am anti-Emhyr, Pro-Nilfgaard. It really really sucks to have Redania take over but it was my choice. I may do a Pro-Nilfgaard playthrough next time but I really-really dislike Emhyrs.

Still, I really disliked not having any good Nilfgaard content.

No Cynthia, no secret spy networks, no CUNNING PLANS.

For shame!

 

[Ortwyn]

Absolutely, it's book canon. Game canon is whatever the game developers say it is because unlike Catholic dogma where the word originates, fictional universes are inherently malleable.

Given how players are pushed to choose the Nilfgaard ending (Radovid is mad, Dijkstra wants to kill Roche), I hope that it is gonna become the game canon as well.

I am anti-Emhyr, Pro-Nilfgaard. It really really sucks to have Redania take over but it was my choice. I may do a Pro-Nilfgaard playthrough next time but I really-really dislike Emhyrs.

Still, I really disliked not having any good Nilfgaard content.

No Cynthia, no secret spy networks, no CUNNING PLANS.

For shame!

I know. And I understand you don't like Emhyr, he is anti-villain and we are not supposed to like him. What I do not understand is your opinion that Nilfgaard will be better without Emhyr (Ciri excluded).

Nilfgaard content would be great.

 

[CTPhipps]

I totally think we're going to see a canonical Witcher Ciri ending and Nilfgaard victory.

I know. And I understand you don't like Emhyr, he is anti-villain and we are not supposed to like him. What I do not understand is your opinion that Nilfgaard will be better without Emhyr (Ciri excluded).

Nilfgaard content would be great.

Oh yeah, I'm all for Temeria content too but I'll be honest, I'd much prefer to do more work for the Black Ones.

You're right that Nilfgaard has been an expansionist dictatorship both before and after Emhyr but he's been absolutely ruling the country for the Three Nilfgaard invasions of the North. He's responsible for Cintra (except, of course, that his marshals exceeded his orders to do the Massacre), the Scoia'tael, and the subsequent attempts to conquer the North. We could assume that he is nobly holding back all of the Nilfgaard's dark and evil urges but we've seen that Emhyr's methods of reigning in the people under them have been to just wage war more effectively.

Things could be worse under many a dictator but, honestly, I'm hoping they get better more than anything as I'm hoping after 3 failed invasions that Nilfgaard simply gets the message.

Which, given the Guilds were unwilling to continue funding the war, seems possible.

Nilfgaard would never voluntarily stop invading the North for moral reasons but it seems very likely that they might stop because it's simply costing them too much $$$. The irony? They could have taken over the North pretty easily through economic means as we see in the books but they chose to do violence over and over again (not that the kings in the North helped).

 

[Ortwyn]

You're right that Nilfgaard has been an expansionist dictatorship both before and after Emhyr but he's been absolutely ruling the country for the Three Nilfgaard invasions of the North. He's responsible for Cintra (except, of course, that his marshals exceeded his orders to do the Massacre), the Scoia'tael, and the subsequent attempts to conquer the North. We could assume that he is nobly holding back all of the Nilfgaard's dark and evil urges but we've seen that Emhyr's methods of reigning in the people under them have been to just wage war more effectively.

Things could be worse under many a dictator but, honestly, I'm hoping they get better more than anything as I'm hoping after 3 failed invasions that Nilfgaard simply gets the message.

Which, given the Guilds were unwilling to continue funding the war, seems possible.

Nilfgaard would never voluntarily stop invading the North for moral reasons but it seems very likely that they might stop because it's simply costing them too much $$$. The irony? They could have taken over the North pretty easily through economic means as we see in the books but they chose to do violence over and over again (not that the kings in the North helped).

Soon the Empire will be overpopulated again. Then they will attack. The war is costly, but even though the North won the Second war, it was Nilfgaard who suffered less. Long term peace is very unlikely.

You remind me one passage from the books:

‘At the royal council in Ellander I heard...’ stammered Jarre. ‘There was talk about a great victory in this war; it was so important that... That this war put an end to all wars.’
Sheldon Skaggs snorted, spitting beer onto his beer. Zoltan Chivay roared with laughter.
‘What do you think, gentlemen?’
Now it was Dennis Cranmer’s turn to burst out laughing. Yarpen Zigrin retained his seriousness. He studied the young man attentively and seemed concerned.
‘Son,’ he said very seriously. ‘Look. There, sitting at the counter is Evangelina Parr. She is admittedly, substantial. Indeed, even great. But despite her actions, not one whore can put an end to all whores.’

And Emhyr? I think he is a competent ruler. Not worst, not better than his predecessors or successors (again Ciri excluded). He was just more efficient in eliminating his enemies.

 

[CTPhipps]

Soon the Empire will be overpopulated again. Then they will attack. The war is costly, but even though the North won the Second war, it was Nilfgaard who suffered less.

Eh, the North has been steadily becoming more and more united via the Hegelian Dialectic. Basically, Nilfgaard keeps attacking it and as a result, they get more chaotic and the North becomes more like Nilfgaard. The Dijkstra ending more or less shows this happening in real-time as his efforts transforms the North into Nilfgaard 2.0 with Temerian, Kaedwin, and so on provinces of the Redanian Empire.

By the time the 4th Nilfgaard Invasion happens, it's very likely their advantages will have evaporated.

That's, ironically, a direct result of Nilfgaard weakening all the individual Northern nations so much in the games that the stronger ones can take over.

Amusingly, in the books, it's very likely Foltest and Henselt would have been the rulers of the North instead.

Radvoid's takeover probably would mean the 4th invasion would be a bloody success, though, since the North's only concrete advantage is it's magic-users are far-far more powerful than Nilfgaards.

Sapkowski more or less says this is the only way for the North to survive in BOE:

“I’m not mocking anything,” protested the dwarf. “I don’t doubt the existence of the gods, but it annoys me when someone drags them into earthly matters and tries to pull the wool over my eyes using the prophecies of some crazy elf. The Nilfgaardians are the instrument of the gods? Rubbish! Search back through your memories to the past, to the days of Dezmod, Radowid and Sambuk, to the days of Abrad, the Old Oak! You may not remember them, because your lives are so very short – you’re like Mayflies – but I remember, and I’ll tell you what it was like in these lands just after you climbed from your boats on the Yaruga Estuary and the Pontar Delta onto the beach. Three kingdoms sprang from the four ships which beached on those shores; the stronger groups absorbed the weaker and so grew, strengthening their positions. They invaded others’ territories, conquered them, and their kingdoms expanded, becoming ever larger and more powerful. And now the Nilfgaardians are doing the same, because theirs is a strong and united, disciplined and tightly knit country. And unless you close ranks in the same way, Nilfgaard will swallow you as a pike does a minnow – just as this wise druid said!”

 

[Ortwyn]

Eh, the North has been steadily becoming more and more united via the Hegelian Dialectic. Basically, Nilfgaard keeps attacking it and as a result, they get more chaotic and the North becomes more like Nilfgaard. The Dijkstra ending more or less shows this happening in real-time as his efforts transforms the North into Nilfgaard 2.0 with Temerian, Kaedwin, and so on provinces of the Redanian Empire.

First, I respect that the game needs more endings and therefore we get Dijkstra ending with his enlightened rule. However this ending is very implausible. How exactly Dijkstra wants to rule not only Redania, but also other Northern kingdoms? He is a born commoner. He is not popular among the Redanian nobility and even though he is patriot and does everything he can for Redania, he is known mainly for Drakenborg (Dijkstra - Esterad Thyssen dialogue in the books). There are probably some pro-Nilfgaardian nobles who would oppose him. Philippa Eilhart might plot against him.

Just imagine the situation. The people of the North must be depressed. Their kings are dead. Nilfgaard is coming. Many of them will collaborate with the invaders, because the defeat will seem inevitable. Dijkstra is a mastermind, but I don't believe he can succeed.

By the time the 4th Nilfgaard Invasion happens, it's very likely their advantages will have evaporated.

They have more money. Half the North is plundered, Redania is quite poor, only Novigrad is rich. The Empire still has a big advantage.

Radvoid's takeover probably would mean the 4th invasion would be a bloody success, though, since the North's only concrete advantage is it's magic-users are far-far more powerful than Nilfgaards.

Another weird ending. Radovid is insane, he is hiding on his ship, but he manages to defeat much stronger Nilfgaardian army. Deus ex machina again.

Anyway, Northern magic users were a bit more powerful than the Nilfgaardians (battle of Sodden was not an easy victory, half of the mages died). They had Vilgefortz, Terranova, Fercart, Francesca Findabair, Yennefer, Triss, Sabrina and Philippa Eilhart back then. Any of them willing or able to risk their lives for Radovid OR Dijkstra? No. Right now Nilfgaardian mages are much more powerful regardless of your Reason of state choice. North is dead, just accept it.

 

[CTPhipps]

First, I respect that the game needs more endings and therefore we get Dijkstra ending with his enlightened rule. However this ending is very implausible. How exactly Dijkstra wants to rule not only Redania, but also other Northern kingdoms? He is a born commoner. He is not popular among the Redanian nobility and even though he is patriot and does everything he can for Redania, he is known mainly for Drakenborg (Dijkstra - Esterad Thyssen dialogue in the books). There are probably some pro-Nilfgaardian nobles who would oppose him. Philippa Eilhart might plot against him.

It's a patently ridiculous ending as there's nothing preventing the North from forming a coherent military and economic alliance the way countless other nations have done so in the past. I can't imagine Dijkstra thinks he could get away with occupying and industrializing the North through military force. About the only way the ending makes sense is if puts all of his old spy data to use and somehow gets the North to make him Regent for a puppet ruler High King like Anais or some other figure.

I could see him ruling over Redania since he's a proven power there and through Redania, Kaedwin since I could see that nation remaining conquered.

Everywhere else? That's a lot of warfare there.

Just imagine the situation. The people of the North must be depressed. Their kings are dead. Nilfgaard is coming. Many of them will collaborate with the invaders, because the defeat will seem inevitable. Dijkstra is a mastermind, but I don't believe he can succeed.

The resettlement thing was interesting, though, as that would mean the various national barriers would evaporate.

They have more money. Half the North is plundered, Redania is quite poor, only Novigrad is rich. The Empire still has a big advantage.

Well, yes and no. The Empire is rich but the Imperial treasury is not. The Guilds don't want war and without them, the Empire's military efforts crumbled. The big thing the North needs to do which Dijkstra won't have difficulty doing would be to industrialize the North. That's also part of his Big SpeechTM.

Ironically, the best people for helping do that would be Nilfgaard.

Another weird ending. Radovid is insane, he is hiding on his ship, but he manages to defeat much stronger Nilfgaardian army. Deus ex machina again.

There have been many miltary genius monarchs. There have been many insane monarchs. There have not been many military genius insane monarchs. Though in Nilfgaard's case, I think their invasion is failing because no one actually wants the war but Emhyr and he doesn't have the gold to actively prosecute it.

As we see, Emhyr has run out of patience from the public.

Anyway, Northern magic users were a bit more powerful than the Nilfgaardians (battle of Sodden was not an easy victory, half of the mages died). They had Vilgefortz, Terranova, Fercart, Francesca Findabair, Yennefer, Triss, Sabrina and Philippa Eilhart back then. Any of them willing or able to risk their lives for Radovid OR Dijkstra? No. Right now Nilfgaardian mages are much more powerful regardless of your Reason of state choice. North is dead, just accept it.

Dijkstra gives exact figures for the number of mages in the North at about 2000. Novigrad had about 200 but Radovid's purge killed about 170. So, the losses aren't insurmountable.

Especially if Phillipa chooses to return to Redania to be with her old lover. Dijkstra will also pardon, undoubtedly, any but Phillipa. He may change his mind given time since they're both slimy eels. Remember, mages in Nilfgaard are stablehands according to "The Time of Contempt." They're forbidden from holding any power unless they're born to it.

The Lodge may well find the North appealing again with Radovid dead.

‘Nonsense,’ coughed Codringher, looking intently into his handkerchief. ‘A sorcerer spying for Nilfgaard? Why? For money? Risible. Counting on serious power under the rule of the victorious Emperor Emhyr? Even more ludicrous. It’s no secret that Emhyr var Emreis keeps his sorcerers on a short leash. Sorcerers in Nilfgaard are treated like stablehands. And they have no more power than stablehands either. Would any of our headstrong mages choose to fight for an emperor who would treat them as a stable boy? Filippa Eilhart, who dictates addresses and edicts to Vizimir of Redania? Sabrina Glevissig, who interrupts the speeches of Henselt of Kaedwen, banging her fist on the table and ordering the king to be silent and listen? Vilgefortz of Roggeveen, who recently told Demavend of Aedirn that, for the moment, he has no time for him?’

 

[Ortwyn]

It's a patently ridiculous ending as there's nothing preventing the North from forming a coherent military and economic alliance the way countless other nations have done so in the past. I can't imagine Dijkstra thinks he could get away with occupying and industrializing the North through military force. About the only way the ending makes sense is if puts all of his old spy data to use and somehow gets the North to make him Regent for a puppet ruler High King like Anais or some other figure

The resettlement thing was interesting, though, as that would mean the various national barriers would evaporate.

Let's say Dijkstra can become a regent (I think they say he becomes a chancellor, not a king). But first he must somehow defeat the Nilfgaardians. This was a challenge even for tactical genius Radovid.

Well, yes and no. The Empire is rich but the Imperial treasury is not. The Guilds don't want war and without them, the Empire's military efforts crumbled. The big thing the North needs to do which Dijkstra won't have difficulty doing would be to industrialize the North. That's also part of his Big SpeechTM.

Ironically, the best people for helping do that would be Nilfgaard.

Industrialization is a nice thing, but why should Dijkstra have it easy to achieve? And the Emperor still has more money than Dijkstra.

There have been many miltary genius monarchs. There have been many insane monarchs. There have not been many military genius insane monarchs. Though in Nilfgaard's case, I think their invasion is failing because no one actually wants the war but Emhyr and he doesn't have the gold to actively prosecute it.

As we see, Emhyr has run out of patience from the public.

Again you assume that it is only Emhyr who wants the war (sigh). Money is not problem, the conspiracy against Emhyr succeeds, because stronger Nilfgaardian army is defeated by insane tactical genius. Which is quite unlikely to happen in RL.

Dijkstra gives exact figures for the number of mages in the North at about 2000. Novigrad had about 200 but Radovid's purge killed about 170. So, the losses aren't insurmountable.

Especially if Phillipa chooses to return to Redania with her old lover. Dijkstra will also pardon, undoubtedly, any but Phillipa.

Remember, mages in Nilfgaard are stablehands according to "The Time of Contempt." They're forbidden from holding any power unless they're born to it.

Dijkstra counts all the herbalists, pellars, alchemists. North needs powerful mages - and most of them died, Triss moves to Kovir, Yen is no longer interested, Margarita cares about Aretuza, Francesca cares about Dol Blathanna and Philippa? Philippa will not return to Redania, because Radovid hates her and Dijkstra would probably kill her, she even said that she is gonna try her luck in Nilfgaard. Who remains? Carduin? He is a coward (books reference). Radcliffe? Maybe. That's not enough.

In Nilfgaard mages do not hold power but they are well-paid and they are loyal. Philippa might not like it and move to Kovir (using Triss again). But she will not fight against Nilfgaard.

Codringher's words of wisdom? Terranova or Fercart were bribed by Nilfgaard. Pinety from the Season of Storms moved to Nilfgaard. And ask Cynthia about her opinion, Nilfgaardian mages do not complain.

 

[CTPhipps]

Let's say Dijkstra can become a regent (I think they say he becomes a chancellor, not a king). But first he must somehow defeat the Nilfgaardians. This was a challenge even for tactical genius Radovid.

It's already at the very end of the war when Dijkstra decides to kill Radovid. The conflict is nearing its final stages when Geralt says that Emhyr is planning to step down and he failed to get the support of the Guilds to support the war. Hence, Dijkstra deciding they can try to kill Radovid again since Nilfgaard is unstable. The money issue is a big one as is the fact Emhyr has a lot of political enemies back home trying to kill him (if they lose, you hear about someone trying to assassinate Emhyr the night before and this is just the latest attempt).

Radovid will drive out Emhyr from Temeria (or Dijkstra) if allowed to continue or the Redanian morale will collapse with no one to rally them since they HATE their ruler.

Kind of interesting both sides have abyssal morale this time around.

Industrialization is a nice thing, but why should Dijkstra have it easy to achieve? And the Emperor still has more money than Dijkstra.

Dijkstra will have access to Novigrad and its fortunes plus Redania plus Kaedwin's resources. As a result, he'll be in a prime position for economic reforms in the North as having two out of the three biggest nations plus its richest port city and traders. If he can secure a economic relationship with Nilfgaard, he'll be able to import the infrastructure he needs rapidly.

Again you assume that it is only Emhyr who wants the war (sigh). Money is not problem, the conspiracy against Emhyr succeeds, because stronger Nilfgaardian army is defeated by insane tactical genius. Which is quite unlikely to happen in RL.

I'm going by what Geralt says to Dijkstra that, at the very least, Emhyr hasn't got the economic support for the war. The war is a quagmire because of Radovid's idiot savant tactical abilities as well as the fact Kaedwin and Redania together are collectively a tough opponent since the former was the largest nation in the North.

But it's Geralt talking about the Guilds which is the deciding factor (where he got that info is anyone's guess, presumably a conversation I missed in the palace).

By the time Dijkstra takes over, the war is mostly won, they just need to consolidate until Emhyr is forced to withdraw.

In Nilfgaard mages do not hold power but they are well-paid and they are loyal. Philippa might not like it and move to Kovir. But she will not fight Nilfgaard.

Very true, which would make training new mages and industrialization a chief concern. Dijkstra would definitely want to reform the Conclave lickety split.

 

[Ortwyn]

Dijkstra will have access to Novigrad and its fortunes plus Redania plus Kaedwin's resources. As a result, he'll be in a prime position for economic reforms in the North as having two out of the three biggest nations plus its richest port city and traders. If he can secure a economic relationship with Nilfgaard, he'll be able to import the infrastructure he needs rapidly.

Redania and Kaedwen are quite poor. Redanian nobles sacrificed even their jewellery. It is all about Novigrad now, but is one rich city enough?

I'm going by what Geralt says to Dijkstra that, at the very least, Emhyr hasn't got the economic support for the war. The war is a quagmire because of Radovid's idiot savant tactical abilities as well as the fact Kaedwin and Redania together are collectively a tough opponent since the former was the largest nation in the North.

But it's Geralt talking about the Guilds which is the deciding factor (where he got that info is anyone's guess, presumably a conversation I missed in the palace).

By the time Dijkstra takes over, the war is mostly won, they just need to consolidate until Emhyr is forced to withdraw.

Nilfgaardian army was stronger than all the Northern armies together. First time Nordlings wanted to avenge Calanthe, second time they had mercenaries. Now we have only Redania+Kaedwen to face the whole Nilfgard?

The guilds? Is there any in-game quote directly stating that the Imperial treasury is empty? The Trade Corporation might be angry, because the trade suffers. I think the problem is that once Emhyr is defeated again, conspirators gain courage and strike.

Very true, which would make training new mages and industrialization a chief concern. Dijkstra would definitely want to reform the Conclave lickety split.

The Conclave will be revived in/moved to Kovir. Tancred Thyssen and Triss will handle this.

 

[carlos2033]

He was not present at Sodden Hill, he was not present at Brenna. His generals lost those battles. And he de facto won the Second war (just read the Shilard Fitz-Oesterlen dialogue with Berengar Leuvaarden in the Lady of the Lake):

’Victory is supposed to look like this – the defeated have to buy goods from the winners, and do it gladly, because the goods of the winners and better and cheaper. The winners currency is stronger than the currency of the defeated and the vanquished and they begin to have more confidence in their own. Do you understand me, Baron Fitz-Oesterlen? Are you slowly beginning to distinguish the winners from the losers?’

‘We destroyed their industry and agriculture, according to a predetermined plan,’ Leuvaarden continued calmly. ‘We did this in order to deprive them of their own goods so they have to buy ours. But our merchants and products will not cross through closed or hostile borders.‘

In books and TW2 Emhyr outsmarted most of his opponents (or had them eliminated): The Usurper was overthrown, Calanthe died, Brotherhood of Sorcerers disintegrated, Vilgefortz died, domestic opposition (aep Dahy, de Wett, Skellen etc.) died, Demawend died, Foltest died and the Lodge was destroyed. He is the boss.

And in TW3? There are 4 competent and powerful individuals: Emhyr, Radovid, Philippa Eilhart and Dijkstra, all of them act like fools sooner or later in the game (some of them even became insane).

I was just saying he lost two wars in books while he is leader of Nilfgard don`t care why, this was post about him and nilfgard so i say he is stupid but i also think that for other leaders too and said so in some other posts, it`s like everyone is not the same persons from books and do stupid things in games, look Radovid he was described as stern in books and was that in W2 now is just insane and stupid he attacks his ally in middle of war, plus instead he chase mages instead focusing on war, Djikstra in Reasons of state is just stupid and out of characters, look Phillipa failed in everything she wanted to do, and like you said Emhyr killed all his opposition on north and blaimed mages for that but failed to realise that Radovid is biggest threat and didn`t even try to kill him in W2, and he still losing war it`s just look stupid, but like i said it`s not just him it`s every leader

 

[mbaker51591]

I was just saying he lost two wars in books don`t care why, this was post about him and nilfgard so i say he is stupid but i also think that for other leaders too and said so in some other posts, it`s like everyone is not the same persons from books and do stupid things in games, look Radovid he was described as stern in books and was that in W2 now is just insane and stupid he attacks his ally in middle of war, plus instead he chase mages instead focusing on war, Djikstra in Reasons of state is just stupid and out of characters, look Phillipa failed in everything she wanted to do, and like you said Emhyr killed all his opposition on north and blaimed mages for that but failed to realise that Radovid is biggest threat and didn`t even try to kill him in W2, and he still losing war it`s just look stupid, but like i said it`s not just him it`s every leader

Personally i still think Radovid is still tactical genius, Yes attacking Kaedweni looks stupid and abandoning Temeria but. if you sided w/ Roche path King Henselt massacre his own army due to conspiracy then attack Vergen. That's a lot casualty of war even if you let King Henselt lives and wins Vergen. Also w/ the Ioverth path King Henselt suffered a tremendous lost during the siege of Vergen. Meaning Kaedweni are just meagre forces, they could easily defect w/ the Nilfgardians so it is better to conquer them quickly. Also King Henselt have some deal w/ the Nilfgardians in W2.

With Temeria is just plainly impossible to save them. Temeria doesn't have a unified leader and some of the nobles could easily betrayed Temeria.Even Anais being crown, Nilfgardian's blitzkrieg crashes most of the Northern army and happen so fast.

 

[carlos2033]

Personally i still think Radovid is still tactical genius, Yes attacking Kaedweni looks stupid and abandoning Temeria but. if you sided w/ Roche path King Henselt massacre his own army due to conspiracy then attack Vergen. That's a lot casualty of war even if you let King Henselt lives and wins Vergen. Also w/ the Ioverth path King Henselt suffered a tremendous lost during the siege of Vergen. Meaning Kaedweni are just meagre forces, they could easily defect w/ the Nilfgardians so it is better to conquer them quickly. Also King Henselt have some deal w/ the Nilfgardians in W2.

With Temeria is just plainly impossible to save them. Temeria doesn't have a unified leader and some of the nobles could easily betrayed Temeria.Even Anais being crown, Nilfgardian's blitzkrieg crashes most of the Northern army and happen so fast.

Maybe from tactical point of view make sense to attack Kedwen to strenght his army if Henselt is dead or as it stated that if Henselt is alive he fought on front lines and died so Kedwen either way surrender after losing few skirmishes but still it`s like he is not same character in W2, but his act in Reasons of state is just stupid and out of character, he was in Vizima when Geralt dismantle salamandra and killed Azar Javed, he was there when he killed Grand master, he was also at Loc Muinne when Geralt fought dragon and now in W3 he think it`s smart move and easy task to kill witcher while he is chasing powerful sorceress, to me it`s pure stupidity

---------- Updated at 08:50 AM ----------

Well, yeah, but Emhyr lives to a ripe old age too.

But to game book canon means nothing, in book canon Vesemir is alive, like Sabrina, Assire, Sile, kings and other characters are alive in books but are dead in games.

 

[mbaker51591]

Maybe from tactical point of view make sense to attack Kedwen to strenght his army if Henselt is dead or as it stated that if Henselt is alive he fought on front lines and died so Kedwen either way surrender after losing few skirmishes but still it`s like he is not same character in W2, but his act in Reasons of state is just stupid and out of character, he was in Vizima when Geralt dismantle salamandra and killed Azar Javed, he was there when he killed Grand master, he was also at Loc Muinne when Geralt fought dragon and now in W3 he think it`s smart move and easy task to kill witcher while he is chasing powerful sorceress, to me it`s pure stupidity

Geralt almost died in that quest caught off guard and unarmed, Roche just help him. Also Radovid biggest weakness his ego and wanted to kill Philippa. As shown in that quest, Radovid is easily persuaded if Philippa is involved

Seriously Kaedweni force is meagre in W2. Just look at the camps of Kaedweni they have smallest camp in Loc Muine. Also Radovid have the largest forces in Loc Muinne. So your telling me Radovid will have the hard time conquering Kaedweni at that time. The one that destroyed Kaedweni is King Henselt himself due he massacre his troops and tell them to siege Vergen and losing popularity w/ his men.

It is better to destroy your weak allies before they betray you so Radovid is still a tactical genius. Also using the hatred w/ magic and non-humans finance his war. Also during that quest Radovid is at Novigard meaning he could conquered Novigard quite easily.

 

[carlos2033]

So your telling me Radovid will have the hard time conquering Kaedweni at that time. The one that destroyed Kaedweni is King Henselt himself due he massacre his troops and tell them to siege Vergen and losing popularity w/ his men.

No, game clearly states it was easy task, he took kedwen by surprise after crossing snowy Kestrel mountains and kedweni surrender after losing few skirmishes or if Henselt is alive he died on front lines so it`s pretty much same they surrender after losing king easy task for Radovid to conquer Kedwen

Geralt almost died in that quest caught off guard and unarmed, Roche just help him. Also Radovid biggest weakness his ego and wanted to kill Philippa. As shown in that quest, Radovid is easily persuaded if Philippa is involved

I just saying it`s make no sense for Radovid to attack Geralt, so what if he is a witness everyone knows that Radovid is killing mages so Phillipa is no different just another dead mage, it`s just there to show us that Radovid is evil and that is right choice to kill him, to me it`s just out of character for Radovid to attack Geralt.

 

[Lieste]

Neither did Ciri until Episode 3.

You can't have all the callbacks to the book and then pick and choose like a buffet.

Did they happen or not?

---------- Updated at 02:17 AM ----------



Yeah, it really was.

In war, you don't tend to destroy everything and everyone.

Dandelion explains to Geralt VERY CAREFULLY that, "No, Geralt, this isn't war. War is bad, we get it. This is something different."

Geralt is still confused.

So Dandelion has to explain it across a couple of pages. "They are doing something much-much worse than the most terrible thing we have ever experienced and are pretty jaded about in the North."

Then he explains, at length, what that was.

Just saying.

All that. And yet Cintra is still viable as a country, and is the location of the Peace Of Cintra, where the "destroyed" palace is used as the venue for the talks.

Maybe, just maybe some bad things happened. But maybe they weren't quite as extensive or terrible as propaganda said at the time. (A bit like bayonetting babies and nuns during the German advance through Belgium in 1914 ~ not a thing that happened (possibly at all, definitely not regularly or commonly)).

Yet these things, especially if they have a grain of truth in proximity to them, are wonderfully powerful propaganda tools, and Dandelion is usually up to his neck in half assed political agitation/exaggeration for dramatic effect.

When seen directly by Geralt and co later in the saga, the Nilfgaardians are harsh but just and fair, but the Northern army is harsh and arguably more arbitrary and cruel.

 

[CTPhipps]

All that. And yet Cintra is still viable as a country, and is the location of the Peace Of Cintra, where the "destroyed" palace is used as the venue for the talks.

Maybe, just maybe some bad things happened. But maybe they weren't quite as extensive or terrible as propaganda said at the time. (A bit like bayonetting babies and nuns during the German advance through Belgium in 1914 ~ not a thing that happened (possibly at all, definitely not regularly or commonly)).

Yet these things, especially if they have a grain of truth in proximity to them, are wonderfully powerful propaganda tools, and Dandelion is usually up to his neck in half assed political agitation/exaggeration for dramatic effect.

When seen directly by Geralt and co later in the saga, the Nilfgaardians are harsh but just and fair, but the Northern army is harsh and arguably more arbitrary and cruel.

From what I gather in the books, the Massacre of Cintra is kind of a separation of the KINGDOM of Cintra from the CITY OF Cintra. The City of Cintra was destroyed utterly and massive numbers of people were killed along the way to the City of Cintra.

I could name several real-life provinces and infamous massacres but that's not going to be in very good taste. So my take is that the Nilfgaard eradicated the City of Cintra to the almost man but then occupied the Kingdom of Cintra, which had formerly been a wealthy and prosperous one. To make an easy reference, Temeria would still be there if you killed everyone in Vizima but if you killed everyone in Vizima, PEOPLE WOULD REMEMBER.

Which is kind of the weird point I've found regarding Ciri and Emhyr's relationship as Calanthe is never brought up even if you don't think she'd remember her hometown.

---------- Updated at 11:16 AM ----------

Geralt almost died in that quest caught off guard and unarmed, Roche just help him. Also Radovid biggest weakness his ego and wanted to kill Philippa. As shown in that quest, Radovid is easily persuaded if Philippa is involved

Seriously Kaedweni force is meagre in W2. Just look at the camps of Kaedweni they have smallest camp in Loc Muine. Also Radovid have the largest forces in Loc Muinne. So your telling me Radovid will have the hard time conquering Kaedweni at that time. The one that destroyed Kaedweni is King Henselt himself due he massacre his troops and tell them to siege Vergen and losing popularity w/ his men.

It is better to destroy your weak allies before they betray you so Radovid is still a tactical genius. Also using the hatred w/ magic and non-humans finance his war. Also during that quest Radovid is at Novigard meaning he could conquered Novigard quite easily.

Kaedwin is not meant to be a small nation, however, as it's actually the stand-in for Russia in the Continent. Just like the Nilfgaard are meant to be stand-ins for Prussia. Which actually makes Radovid's annexation of it to be kind of ridiculous since Redania and Temeria are more like Hungary and Poland. Kaedwin is basically the really-poor but REALLY-REALLY BIG nation which Nilfgaard has to deal with as a semi-equal in the books.

On a serious note, though, the whole, "Invade someone else before using them to attack other people" SOUNDS ridiculous but it's actually not in real-life at all.

Alexander the Great
Saladin
Genghis Khan

And hell, as late as Adolf Hitler. It's kind of a terrible national memory but plenty of Frenchmen JOINED the fighting against the Allies (and their fellow Frenchmen) with the surrender of Marshal Pinochet to the Third Reich. It had been the decision by him to attempt to become part of the New Order, which didn't work because Hitler hated the French.

We see a simplified version of it in the movie Troy where Brian Cox's character invades lands not because he wants territory but because he wants to absorb their armies into his.

But in the Continent, Radovid killed Henselt and then made a deal with the Kaedwin nobility for them to fight with him. Just like ROCHE can.

As all, Temeria will become a province of Nilfgaard which means he'll probably be fighting in Redania soon.

---------- Updated at 11:21 AM ----------

Nilfgaardian army was stronger than all the Northern armies together. First time Nordlings wanted to avenge Calanthe, second time they had mercenaries. Now we have only Redania+Kaedwen to face the whole Nilfgard?

The guilds? Is there any in-game quote directly stating that the Imperial treasury is empty? The Trade Corporation might be angry, because the trade suffers. I think the problem is that once Emhyr is defeated again, conspirators gain courage and strike.

Yeah, it's when Geralt is talking to Dikjstra and you can tell him this fact along with the abdication to make him let go of Phillipa.

I replayed the palace section at the start of the game too.

There's a reference to the fact that Nilfgaard's problem is economic, not JUST his enemies at home.