Perspective Thread: Third Person vs First Person debate goes HERE.

[Suhiira]

The only nagging I have would be , why we don't have a mini-map ? unless I missed it....

Given the complexity of the EXTENSIVE (not just one building, a whole city) 3D environment just how would a mini-map even work?
The pointers at the edge of the screen really are the best you can do under those circumstances.

 

[Snowflakez]

Given the complexity of the EXTENSIVE (not just one building, a whole city) 3D environment just how would a mini-map even work?
The pointers at the edge of the screen really are the best you can do under those circumstances.

Like it works in any other game with a dense city.

Not an excuse not to have it. The lack of a minimap is a big no-no for me.

 

[AlexiaRevan]

Given the complexity of the EXTENSIVE (not just one building, a whole city) 3D environment just how would a mini-map even work?
The pointers at the edge of the screen really are the best you can do under those circumstances.

if no mini-map , they could've done like in ME2 . When you hit Shift I think , it show you a round mini-map like that point you to a direction . It's not a real mini-map though .

Although now that I recall , you get pointer too lol nvm then .

 

[KaiPMC]

I honestly would like to have both, similar to fallout 4. I would like to see things in third person purely to see my character talk and see the detail in the character models or check their equipment while in the environment. Combat wise, not sure on that. I am fine with first person for combat. Seeing the character in a menu not my taste though but again this is a nitpick.

 

[QwuOng]

I posted my comment on you-tube, then a friend of mine advised me to post it in the forum.

You have my deepest respects CD Project Red. I can clearly see why the 1st Person Perspective is suited for it. And you have executed the 1st person combat well. Its quite fluid and intense. I can see how 3rd person camera may dilute the immersion and the feel of the world and its scale. I do not have all the details on how much you would see your character in 3rd person (whether its cut-scenes only or certain contextual actions only, that remains to be seen). The shooting aspects of this game remind me a lot of Call of Duty Infinite Warfare and Titanfall. The brief melee moments showcased here remind me a bit of Skyrim with the way the mantis blades hack. The stealth take downs remind me a bit of call of duty. My personal opinion is God Willing I would get this game on day one or even pre-order. Enclosing, allow me to give a friendly advise, keep in mind that different players have different "preferences" and "tastes" , you cannot satisfy everyone, there will always be individuals who will be dissatisfied with your product one way or the other(you probably already know that, I'm not telling you anything new). But if you can, there is NO harm in giving players the freedom to toggle the camera they want to view and experience the world(after all, that was the initial plan,wasn't it?). While it is undoubted that 1st person is indeed immersive, BUT some human beings derive the MOST pleasure from seeing their entire body in action, rather than seeing only a small section of their body. So if you can, there is no harm in giving players the freedom to choose how they want to experience the game world, instead of confining them to a certain perspective. Keep in mind, there is a difference between giving people the freedom to choose for themselves and forcing them to take a certain perspective, the two are not the same. Let those who desire 1st person stay with it, and let those who desire 3rd person be able to do so. If you can do it in a vehicle, how much more so for a person then? I wish you all the best CD Project Red. The gameplay is amazing, you have my deepest respects. You will win the hearts a larger player base if you give them freedom, rather than if you forced them to go a certain perspective. Oh, and keep repeatable missions if you can.Missions that the player can always take on even after they are done with all the main story quests and side quests , things like bounty hunting etc (you know what I mean). I wish Witcher 3 had infinite repeating Witcher Contracts that can keep a player playing even after the stories are done. That is all I have to say. All the best. In the end its all about deriving the MOST pleasure out of a game. And different players, have different interpretations of "pleasure". You can't satisfy all of them, but where you can...then why not?

 

[elfysadboy]

I loved the first person view. I agree, it was completely immersive. It gives the city perspective - you look up at the towering skyscrapers - you FEEL small. I was skeptical when i heard it, but now I am totally in favor of first person

 

[Tydeous]

I saw CDProjekts open letter about the gameplay and it asked for our opinions about the FPP... and tbh, I saw nothing there that wouldn't have worked just as well in TPP. FPP is something I rarely enjoy, and despite the quality of animations and scenery in the game, the fact its FPP is enough to stop me from purchasing. I'm sure there will be more new customers than they lose over this, though.

 

[GW84]

Back after a while and happy to see (mostly) polite conversation about the perspective is possible.

Saw the demo and must say I'm conflicted. The game looks beautiful and the world looks fleshed out and interesting, and there appear to be enough non-violent activities and solutions to quests to make the world feel immpersive to me.

Quite worried about the combat though, as it appeared to be a convoluted, fastpaced non-tactical twitch shooter affair. I really hope a slow paced tactical approach to combat will be a viable way to play.

And as much as I'm part of team TPP, going by the demo, that ship has sailed away a long time ago. The game looks to be designed for FPP from the start and adding a different mode at this stage will mean redesigning mostly finished maps, adding years to the development.

 

[reicou]

The only reason I see for FPP is that they are thinking about VR. The gameplay would be equally possible, and even more enjoyable in many aspects, with TPP. If the problem is the grafts, the solution would be to force the FPP at key moments, or force it by default every time we take out a weapon or use one of the grafts.


But not to allow it even in the external exploration of the city, where it is much more appropriate than FPP, it seems an unjustifiable decision, and more knowing how many people want it just to be able to see the character we have created. Do without TPP in these cases only confirms two things:

1) It's not for immersion reasons (there are many points that take you out of the immersion quickly in the gameplay as the damage points), and the immersion would be much greater in the open exploration of the city with TPP, FPP simply limits the immersion a lot. If it were by immersion, why do not you force the FPP into the driving as well?. The answer seems to be that they have realized their limitations in the driving, curiously, the same limitations that FPP has in the open exploration of the city, for which strangely there is no perspective alternative.


2) The character editor is absolutely useless. What perhaps means that it was an element that they had before taking that strange decision of exclusive FPP and now they want to add as a plus, when it is something that without TPP simply lacks logic.


The game looks good in other aspects such as the futuristic
and decadent atmosphere, but thanks to FPS, the last feeling left is that it is another FPS with some RPG options and a very successful atmosphere. TPP in the free exploration of the city would solve many of these problems.

 

[NevaEilhart]

From what i saw in the demo, pretty much ALL of the dialogue cutscenes just looked like a camera pointed at someone. I didn't care about my character because i can't see them or see their reactions on their face from being thrown against a car. It's just a blank emotionless camera. Witcher 3on the other hand showed not only emotions and reactions of characters you interacted with, but also of Geralt himself. So please, consider at least adding this as an option for dialog. I want to be able to see the character ive spent time creating and customizing.

This is so important, right here, you've nailed it perfectly.

Seeing how your own character is reacting to what's happening, whether inside a dialogue or in a cinematic, creates empathy. In the Witcher 3, when Geralt is sad, it shows on his face, and you feel the same because that's a basic human reaction. Imagine some key moments without Geralt's face showing and reacting (his dialogues with the Bloody Baron, with Ciri...).

In a FPP game, you can't have those moments. Take some time to think about other games that are known for being emotion-heavy : The Last of Us for example. Would it work if you weren't be able to see Joels reactions to what's happening around him ? It's the little details, on his face, in his movements, that make him so relatable.

Some FPP games have actually managed to trick the player into having feelings for the character they're playing, by adding a "anchor NPC" you can react to (eg. Bioshock Infinite with Elizabeth - you start caring about Booker only when Elizabeth shows and provides a much needed emotional anchor ; before that it feels as you're playing a bland and generic character. It's her emotions that convey the empathy).

 

[earlvik]

I don't understand why people are still talking about TPP. How can it be a game changer for anyone? (Except for people who get nausea from FPP, that is a valid reason). Some games are first person, some are third person, some (very few) allow both, but it just depends on the type of the game. In games like TES/Fallout 3+ third person perspective is only good for melee fights and pretty screenshots. Gunfights are better in FPP, character interaction is better, world interaction is better (touchscreens and all that), eye augmentation is only possible from FPP. What is the argument for the third person? You just want to see female Vs ass, is that it? (jk)

 

[Sky-Sweeper]

After the gameplay reveal,I think all doubts about the camera choice are diminished.

Hardly

 

[AlexiaRevan]

What is the argument for the third person?

how about 'some peoples feel more confortable' in third person ? just like some peoples feel more confortable playing on console where others are more confortable playing on pc .

I mean , I know it doesn't seem like much . But if you gonna sink alot of hours , days in a game , you want to be confortable playing it right ?

You don't want the game to give you headech from a weird camera view , you don't want to squint and have a migraine cose the text is too small . You don't want a game to flash at you weird light until you go blind .

You want to have fun . Well some peoples have trouble with first person view .

I personally don't , I think it take some adjustement . But I should be able to play it without issue . The no-map will take a bit longer to get used to though lol since I use it in other games alot .

 

[ezangrando]

I hate to play in First Person, i think Bethesda way is the right way, people should be able to choose how to play no matter what others thinks is better. After many years with the witcher series and waiting for Cyberpunk with huge hopes it's sad to pass on this... there is still time to change it, or to me the only way will be hope in a MOD to play as Third Person... if any mod tool will ever be released...

 

[Spinach7.2]

This is so important, right here, you've nailed it perfectly.

Seeing how your own character is reacting to what's happening, whether inside a dialogue or in a cinematic, creates empathy. In the Witcher 3, when Geralt is sad, it shows on his face, and you feel the same because that's a basic human reaction. Imagine some key moments without Geralt's face showing and reacting (his dialogues with the Bloody Baron, with Ciri...).

In a FPP game, you can't have those moments. Take some time to think about other games that are known for being emotion-heavy : The Last of Us for example. Would it work if you weren't be able to see Joels reactions to what's happening around him ? It's the little details, on his face, in his movements, that make him so relatable.

Some FPP games have actually managed to trick the player into having feelings for the character they're playing, by adding a "anchor NPC" you can react to (eg. Bioshock Infinite with Elizabeth - you start caring about Booker only when Elizabeth shows and provides a much needed emotional anchor ; before that it feels as you're playing a bland and generic character. It's her emotions that convey the empathy).

I disagree with you on this.
You do not see your face regardless of what emotions you are experiencing (unless you are staring at a mirror). I am suggesting good game design can elicit emotions in the player that do not have to be seen in the character.

 

[Heeyam]

I hope modding community will find out ways to implement TPP.

 

[reicou]

The question here is what is the argument for FPP, because if it is immersion, as has been said, except for the grafts, the rest seems to be equally effective in TPP, and both with grafts and in the combat forcing FPP seems acceptable, but outside of that, TPP seems better perspective for the rest of the game, especially for free exploration in the city and to justify a character editor that does not seem to make any sense without TPP. Why spend an hour doing the character if I can not see it later on the move? It is absurd, and the only explanation is that they want to bet on VR in the future (which would have lied to us about the reason) and that they had a character editor practically completed before the decision of FPP and thought: since we have it, we add as an extra to the game.

That is the real issue in my opinion and in that of more people. But having a topic in the forum for TPP / FPP maybe this is not the best place to discuss it.

 

[Sky-Sweeper]

I disagree with you on this.
You do not see your face regardless of what emotions you are experiencing (unless you are staring at a mirror). I am suggesting good game design can elicit emotions in the player that do not have to be seen in the character.

And i disagree on this. Its a roleplaying game. Im supposed to care about my character and understand their feelings, especially if they're voiced. That does not come across when you're character is the cameraman. They have no body expression. It literally all comes down to the dialog and how *other* characters interact with the camera (you). You're never the focal point because you're never in frame. That's basic stuff that cannot be done in FPP.

Look at fallout. How do the majority of people play those games? FPP. What did people think of the player character being voiced? They hated it. Why? Because it broke the immersion of that being them. Because the character talks in a way they do not find fitting of their character. Cyberpunk has the same issue. If the character you play didn't have a voice, it would be a much more immersive experience and i could get behind the FPP train. But sense they're voiced, i feel like i should be watching them not seeing through their eyes. It is very jarring.

 

[SethSteiner]

I saw CDProjekts open letter about the gameplay and it asked for our opinions about the FPP... and tbh, I saw nothing there that wouldn't have worked just as well in TPP. FPP is something I rarely enjoy, and despite the quality of animations and scenery in the game, the fact its FPP is enough to stop me from purchasing. I'm sure there will be more new customers than they lose over this, though.

There is one thing alone that doesn't work just as well in TPP and that's dialouge and the immersion out of that. There is a reason you have cineastic dialouges in RPGs since Mass Effect, because of the perspective. Third person has 2 disadvantages, on one hand the camera is too far away, so you most often have a pretty hard time to see facial expressions and details and on the other hand there is always something in the way - your character. The whole interaction with Meredith would be totally different in Third Person as it is in First Person.

 

[CifkaMiklos]

First Person. Period.
I really like the gameplay video feeling, so please, at least an option, remain at First Person View!