Questions about mages, magic

[Frybread]

Questions about mages, magic

Hello all. I've read the books, played the games, and read some of the wiki articles and threads here, but I'm still confused about some things dealing with magic.

For instance, can anyone learn magic with study and practice? Or can only people who have an innate connection to the Force learn to cast spells?

Are all mages Sources? Or just those with the Elder Blood?

As far as the Elder Blood goes, it seems that those who possess it have a direct connection to the Force. Does this mean they could warp reality with enough time and practice? Or that they are super mages who could cast stronger spells than ordinary mages?? It doesn't seem so, as Ciri doesn't seem to cast any proper spells but unleashes energy when angry, upset, excited, etc.

Witchers can use signs but, supposedly, they aren't proper mages. Does that mean anyone can use signs just by learning the hand gestures and phrases? (For instance, could a shepherd use the Igni sign to chase off wolves if he knew the hand gesture and phrase?) Or can only people who are innately attuned to the Force use signs, which means witchers are actually a type of mage?

 

[Kallelinski]

For instance, can anyone learn magic with study and practice? Or can only people who have an innate connection to the Force learn to cast spells?

No, not everybody can learn it. You need at least a little bit of natural talent for it.

Are all mages Sources? Or just those with the Elder Blood?

Mages, druids etc. are usually not automatically sources, they are just mages. Sources have a special bonding to the magical world(?), hence showing quite special abilities. Remember that part in the books, where Triss is at Kaer Morhen and talks about Ciri?

As far as i know the Elder Blood is not necessary to be a source, but the chance to be one, while having Elder Blood, is probably the highest. The original elves with the Elder Blood were the most powerful mages among the elves, as far as i know, so it makes sense that they have a tendency to it.

As far as the Elder Blood goes, it seems that those who possess it have a direct connection to the Force. Does this mean they could warp reality with enough time and practice? Or that they are super mages who could cast stronger spells than ordinary mages?? It doesn't seem so, as Ciri doesn't seem to cast any proper spells but unleashes energy when angry, upset, excited, etc.

Yes and no, it depends how "powerful" your bonding is. For instance Ciri is quite the law of exception, as she can almost warp through space and time without much problems later on. But even an elf like Avallac'h despite training for hundreds of years now, has still to use natural portals instead of just warping. Even the Wild Hunt needs specialized navigators:

Caranthir is the general to Eredin and the Navigator to the Hunt. He was a product of Avallac'h's attempt of selective breeding between elven couples gift with the ability to manipilate time and space.

Witchers can use signs but, supposedly, they aren't proper mages. Does that mean anyone can use signs just by learning the hand gestures and phrases? (For instance, could a shepherd use the Igni sign to chase off wolves if he knew the hand gesture and phrase?) Or can only people who are innately attuned to the Force use signs, which means witchers are actually a type of mage?

Without at least a little bit of natural talent for it, it won't happen for the common folk, probably for the best, if you ask me

 

[Frybread]

No, not everybody can learn it. You need at least a little bit of natural talent for it.

Mages, druids etc. are usually not automatically sources, they are just mages. Sources have a special bonding to the magical world(?), hence showing quite special abilities. Remember that part in the books, where Triss is at Kaer Morhen and talks about Ciri?

As far as i know the Elder Blood is not necessary to be a source, but the chance to be one, while having Elder Blood, is probably the highest. The original elves with the Elder Blood were the most powerful mages among the elves, as far as i know, so it makes sense that they have a tendency to it.




Yes and no, it depends how "powerful" your bonding is. For instance Ciri is quite the law of exception, as she can almost warp through space and time without much problems later on. But even an elf like Avallac'h despite training for hundreds of years now, has still to use natural portals instead of just warping. Even the Wild Hunt needs specialized navigators:



Without at least a little bit of natural talent for it, it won't happen for the common folk, probably for the best, if you ask me

OK thanks for the answers. I've just started a second read through of the books so I'm sure it will all make more sense this time around.

 

[Tomice158]

So, if Ciri would be the protagonist for a future game (Witcher 4), would it bend the lore much if she learned to create fireballs, ice storms, telekinetic fields or whatever is necessary for a proper magic system (preferably a bit more varied than Geralt's 5 or 6 signs)?

 

[Kallelinski]

So, if Ciri would be the protagonist for a future game (Witcher 4), would it bend the lore much if she learned to create fireballs, ice storms, telekinetic fields or whatever is necessary for a proper magic system (preferably a bit more varied than Geralt's 5 or 6 signs)?

She could have learn it once maybe, but she can't anymore, at least not without putting a lot of effort into it and with the help of other sorcerers, but that's just guesswork of me.

I really doubt you will ever see Ciri fighting with magic in the ways sorcerers usually do.

 

[Charcharo]

I think she could get her power back...

But would need time and a teacher for that...

 

[Kallelinski]

Yeah, not saying it is entirely impossible, but the real question would be, whether she even wants it anymore. It looks like she is fine with swords and teleporting.

She learned to be a witcher, her training was basically "finished", at least the groundwork, but she never learned to be a sorcerer. Yennefer could only teach her the basics and even those were already very hard for her and sadly she never had the chance to learn it, as the training for sorcerers takes years.

 

[Frybread]

I think she could get her power back...

But would need time and a teacher for that...

And, if I remember correctly, in the books she renounces magic.

 

[Tomice158]

And, if I remember correctly, in the books she renounces magic.

Well, I remember a friend of mine who seriously announced on his 20th birthday that he doesn't want to live beyond his 30th, because life gets boring and awful then. When he got 25, he moved the deadline to 40. Now that he's nearing 35, he dropped the topic ;-)
Not everything we say as teenagers ends up being as serious as we imagine it when we're young.


That said, there is never a statement that it's impossible for her, right? In the game, Yen and Avallach sure don't sound as if she has reached her limit.


You understand why I'm asking? I'm very convinced there'll be a sequel in a few years with Ciri as protagonist (and I'd love to see it).
But one of the few commonly stated complaints about TW3 was it's lack of character development and unlockable skills.
If the devs aren't bound by a clear statement in the books that Ciri absolutely can't throw fireballs and lightnings, they will probably implement a larger variety of spells.

The fact that Ciri never learned it until now is only an advantage. Nothing is better for the gameplay than a heroine that starts with a few very basic skills and grows in might during her adventure.

 

[Kallelinski]

Trust me, this community went wild, when CDPR announced to implement a crossbow for Geralt. You don't wanna see what happens, if they retcon that Ciri can now throw fireballs without a really good reason

Changing Triss' hair into red or Geralt's new love for beards are still okay-ish, but still not everyone is happy about that. But giving Ciri normal magical abilities just because of gameplay mechanics is bollocks.

She didn't just renounced magic in the way of "i don't want to use it anymore", she quit being a sorcerer at all, she gave it up forever.

But as i said, it's not really a question of whether she can or can not, but whether she wants. She quit being a sorcerer for a reason and she was always fine with sword fighting.

If they need to change characters that much, they could just create new ones.

 

[dremvar]

Ok, I've a question about mages.

The Witcher 1 glossary says this:

"Dimeritium is a rare and precious metal with an interesting feature — it represses the transfer of magical energy. A bluish alloy of iron and dimeritium is used to produce handcuffs and necklaces. Those who wear them cannot cast spells or use magic in any way. There are known cases, however, of extraordinarily powerful sorcerers managing to overcome the shield generated by dimeritium."

Is there actually any known case of this? If yes, who did it?

 

[Frybread]

Ok, I've a question about mages.

The Witcher 1 glossary says this:

"Dimeritium is a rare and precious metal with an interesting feature — it represses the transfer of magical energy. A bluish alloy of iron and dimeritium is used to produce handcuffs and necklaces. Those who wear them cannot cast spells or use magic in any way. There are known cases, however, of extraordinarily powerful sorcerers managing to overcome the shield generated by dimeritium."

Is there actually any known case of this? If yes, who did it?

Not that I can recall.

 

[Kallelinski]

Me neither.

But there is always a first time for everything. Getting new eyes was also not imaginable.

 

[Gen-R]

Ok, I've a question about mages.

The Witcher 1 glossary says this:

"Dimeritium is a rare and precious metal with an interesting feature — it represses the transfer of magical energy. A bluish alloy of iron and dimeritium is used to produce handcuffs and necklaces. Those who wear them cannot cast spells or use magic in any way. There are known cases, however, of extraordinarily powerful sorcerers managing to overcome the shield generated by dimeritium."

Is there actually any known case of this? If yes, who did it?

I was actually wondering something similar to this and figured this would be the best thread to post in. Of the Sorceresses that we know of, in game and in books. Which ones are considered the most powerful? From my understanding: I imagine Philippa and Sile were quite near the top Yen would be close to them, and Triss would be slightly less. Where would that place others such and Fringilla, Ida, Keira and Margarita?

Do books go into this more? I am currently waiting for them to arrive.

 

[Frybread]

I was actually wondering something similar to this and figured this would be the best thread to post in. Of the Sorceresses that we know of, in game and in books. Which ones are considered the most powerful? From my understanding: I imagine Philippa and Sile were quite near the top Yen would be close to them, and Triss would be slightly less. Where would that place others such and Fringilla, Ida, Keira and Margarita?

Do books go into this more? I am currently waiting for them to arrive.

I've only read the books once, but I'll try to answer. Before the Thanedd coup, when the Brotherhood of Sorcerers was active, I would say the most skilled mages were Tissaia de Vries, Vilgefortz of Roggeveen, Hen Gedymdeith, Francesca Findabair and Philippa Eilhart.

During the games, I'd say the most powerful are Philippa, Francesca, Azar Javed, Yennefer and Dethmold. I'm not sure about Triss - she seems to have "leveled up," so to speak, from the books and utilizes fire - which is a strong source of Power. So maybe she would be included on the list of most powerful (in the games)?

 

[Gen-R]

I've only read the books once, but I'll try to answer. Before the Thanedd coup, when the Brotherhood of Sorcerers was active, I would say the most skilled mages were Tissaia de Vries, Vilgefortz of Roggeveen, Hen Gedymdeith, Francesca Findabair and Philippa Eilhart.

During the games, I'd say the most powerful are Philippa, Francesca, Azar Javed, Yennefer and Dethmold. I'm not sure about Triss - she seems to have "leveled up," so to speak, from the books and utilizes fire - which is a strong source of Power. So maybe she would be included on the list of most powerful (in the games)?

Ahh ok that's what I was wondering. Thanks for the reply. I noticed that with Triss too, in the 3rd especially she seems to have gained ability when compared to the other games. I had always assumed that Yen being older was more adept, but in the 3rd game they seem to be more equal in their respective areas.Even Margarita I was curious about as in game we don't see a whole lot of her, but she was the rector of Aretuza, and , provided it's accurate to the book lore, co -authored a book with Tissaia De Vries, who seems to be a very powerful sorceress, so she either was also very skilled or just has a vast amount of knowledge on the subject of magic.

 

[Frybread]

Ahh ok that's what I was wondering. Thanks for the reply. I noticed that with Triss too, in the 3rd especially she seems to have gained ability when compared to the other games. I had always assumed that Yen being older was more adept, but in the 3rd game they seem to be more equal in their respective areas.Even Margarita I was curious about as in game we don't see a whole lot of her, but she was the rector of Aretuza, and , provided it's accurate to the book lore, co -authored a book with Tissaia De Vries, who seems to be a very powerful sorceress, so she either was also very skilled or just has a vast amount of knowledge on the subject of magic.

Yeah the "power levels" of mages were left ambiguous in the books. Its hard to determine who is at what level, but several - I think - were described as being more talented or powerful or knowledgeable than others.

Before the Thanedd coup I would say Yennefer was up there in terms of power but not on the top tier with Vilgefortz and the other older mages.

 

[Kallelinski]

Really hard to say, especially since the mages in the games are sometimes overpowered and sometimes just powerless.

I think CDPR gave Triss "fire" just as some kind of trademark (her hair is even fire hydrant red), so i wouldn't count on that too much. Extracting power/energy from fire is one of the most dangerous things, so that's not usually something you just do with ease.

I think the best and easiest way to determine their "powerlevels" is their age, since the older a mage is, the more powerful s/he gets. Talent is another thing of course.

From all sorceresses in the games Philippa is probably the most powerful, as she is considered at least 200 years old, maybe even much older. I also think she was one of the few, who would do quite well on a battlefield.

Spoiler

Transforming into an animal or getting new eyes is also not something everyone can do, as shown in the game she would be the second known person, who would achieved that.

Regarding Yennefer, she is about 100 in Witcher 3 and known for being quite powerful, also seen in the books. She even used once her feet to cast spells. She was also the youngest member of the Council of Mages, so there must be a reason for that too. If you have finished the quest Last Wish, she also mentions that she is barely out of breath this time, but a similiar fight in the books ended in destroying half a town, because she couldn't keep it under control. Different circumstances, but still she compares it with then.

Triss, although being one of the youngest (i would guess something between 40-60), is quite talented, if i recall correctly, so despite her young age, she is also quite powerful already.

I would also place Fringilla on the same level as Yennefer or at least close.

I can't remember having read/seen anyone else in action, at least not about those, who are still alive in Witcher 3..., so it's mostly guesswork for many.

Edit: Keira Metz is probably on the same level like Triss.

 

[Frybread]

Really hard to say, especially since the mages in the games are sometimes overpowered and sometimes just powerless.

I think CDPR gave Triss "fire" just as some kind of trademark (her hair is even fire hydrant red), so i wouldn't count on that too much. Extracting power/energy from fire is one of the most dangerous things, so that's not usually something you just do with ease.

I think the best and easiest way to determine their "powerlevels" is their age, since the older a mage is, the more powerful s/he gets. Talent is another thing of course.

From all sorceresses in the games Philippa is probably the most powerful, as she is considered at least 200 years old, maybe even much older. I also think she was one of the few, who would do quite well on a battlefield.

Spoiler

Transforming into an animal or getting new eyes is also not something everyone can do, as shown in the game she would be the second known person, who would achieved that.

Regarding Yennefer, she is about 100 in Witcher 3 and known for being quite powerful, also seen in the books. She even used once her feet to cast spells. She was also the youngest member of the Council of Mages, so there must be a reason for that too. If you have finished the quest Last Wish, she also mentions that she is barely out of breath this time, but a similiar fight in the books ended in destroying half a town, because she couldn't keep it under control. Different circumstances, but still she compares it with then.

Triss, although being one of the youngest (i would guess something between 40-60), is quite talented, if i recall correctly, so despite her young age, she is also quite powerful already.

I would also place Fringilla on the same level as Yennefer or at least close.

I can't remember having read/seen anyone else in action, at least not about those, who are still alive in Witcher 3..., so it's mostly guesswork for many.

Edit: Keira Metz is probably on the same level like Triss.

Yeah I think age is probably the best indicator of power since, all things being equal, people tend to get better at something with more practice, knowledge and experience.

As far as Philippa goes, she's about 300 years old, according to Djikstra in the novels.

I think you're right about Triss being much younger than the other top mages; she seems to be more immature when it comes to relationships and less bitter and jaded about life in general.

About Yennefer, yes she was born in 1173 I think, making her 94/95 in "Lady of the Lake" and 99 in TW3.

 

[Kallelinski]

As far as Philippa goes, she's about 300 years old, according to Djikstra in the novels.

Right, wasn't sure about 200 or 300 anymore, but the problem is nobody can vouch for that. Do you really think anyone would dare to ask a sorceress how old she is?

We only know Yennefers age, because she actually tells us it in the books.


All in all i still think mages are way too underpowered in the games, which makes it even harder to guess, as we have seen barely their real power in action. Only Sabrina Glevissig actually showed in Witcher 2 what a sorcerer is capable of.
In the books 2 sorceresses (i think she was even one of them) blow up a whole fricking castle, the sound of the explosion was heard miles away. Triss can summon some kind of armageddon and could probably erase a town from the map, Yennefer can easily transform people into animals with a simple gesture.

I don't know whether i want to know what Yennefer or Philippa could do with the right amount of energy.