Ronvid nerf

[altaybek]

Ronvid nerf

Simple. He should be reverted back to what he was before. Apart from removing his carry over, his current state makes it useless as crew member too since you won't know where he's gonna pop up at the end of the round therefore preventing the use his utility.

I'm not saying he's a Morkvarg or Olgierd level character in terms of lore and immortality but since anything lore friendly can be (and is) butchered for the sake of better gameplay, this would only make it a small issue.

Tl;dr (really?) Ronvid should return to board at the start of the round like he did before.

 

[kor0ck]

Guess that would be a bit too strong :/
Is still a good card imo

 

[altaybek]

Guess that would be a bit too strong :/
Is still a good card imo

It was like that before and it wasn't imba at all. In a game of 60 point swings, 1 point easily banishable crewman (weaken) with a carry over value only useful in drypassing is not "too strong" imho.

 

[iamthedave]

Tell that to the people complaining about Wardancer.

 

[partci]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude...

There is a reason Ronvid was nerfed like that, you know?

Next stop is the aforementioned Wardancer.

 

[BornBoring]

One of the few good changes of the midwinter update.....

 

[Draconifors]

Definitely agree that Ronvid was changed for a very good reason, and said change should not be reverted.

This despite occasionally playing Machines myself.

 

[altaybek]

What is that "good reason" every one of you talking about yet no one tells? It was the only carry over unit NR has while SK has Morkvarg, MO has Barbegazi, ST has Wardancers and that resilient dwarf.. Poor NG doesn't even have a carry over unit (and doesn't need one). I personally hate carry over mechanic but if we gonna have it, let's have it equally. No faction has any identity left anyway.

 

[Draconifors]

What is that "good reason" every one of you talking about yet no one tells?

Can't speak for others, but to me the reason is that it makes no sense for Ronvid to resurrect at the start of turn. Here's a short(ish) summary of the faction-specific carryover units:


Wardancers definitely need a change, maybe so that their ability only triggers when mulliganed (Swapped) during a round.

Morkvarg has a clear lore reason for always returning, so I have no problem with him coming back at turn start.

Barbegazi normally Consume another unit to gain resilience, which seems like a valid enough reason to me. Perhaps they should be required to Consume to gain resilience, though.

Ronvid is simply played onto the board and then comes back every time he's killed, but unlike Morkvarg he has no real lore backup for that.

Spoiler: Witcher 3 spoiler

Yes, he keeps showing up after being defeated, but he doesn't rise from the dead if he does end up getting killed.

For that reason I consider him "inferior" to Morkvarg and "undeserving" to return at the start of turn.


I don't know if my reasoning makes sense to anyone else, but there you have it anyway.

Edit: Forgot the Defender and Yarpen. Don't really know about them... maybe dwarves are just really resilient by nature.

 

[iamthedave]

What is that "good reason" every one of you talking about yet no one tells? It was the only carry over unit NR has while SK has Morkvarg, MO has Barbegazi, ST has Wardancers and that resilient dwarf.. Poor NG doesn't even have a carry over unit (and doesn't need one). I personally hate carry over mechanic but if we gonna have it, let's have it equally. No faction has any identity left anyway.

Blatantly untrue on almost every point. Unless Monsters has a machine archetype or an armour archetype all of a sudden, or NR has a moonlight and nekker deck I'm unaware of?

Olgierd is neutral, so everyone does have some access to carry over. Just a lot of decks can't stretch the silver slots to fit him.

And the good reason is simply that he's free, synergistic carry over that's very hard to stop. That little 'crew' tag is very powerful all of its own. Adding carry over on top is just a bit too much. Wardancer is considered a bit too powerful by some, and that's literally just 3 points of carryover. Ronvid might only be one point, but one's enough on a round to get CA, and he makes a ton of units a lot more powerful into the bargain.

 

[altaybek]

Lorewise he should come back three times at most and better armed each time

Actually it's not a bad idea to make him appear just 3 times, weakened by half (rounding down) with every defeat.

-First, he's just like he's now. (11 points vanilla)
-Second time, he comes back with 3 armor and damages a random enemy by 2 (5 point armored Ronvid and 2 damage=7 point play. shield and sword!)
-Third time, he spawns 2 point thug tokens each side.( 2 point Ronvid and 2+2 thugs= 6 points)

Fits his annoying nature better.

Dwarf resilience seems viable but I'm not sure if it should be Yarpen. He's completely unrelated to his lore.
Must-Consume option for Barbegazi seems like a good tweak and Wardancers should be changed completely if not removed.

 

[Esmer]

Simple. He should be reverted back to what he was before. Apart from removing his carry over, his current state makes it useless as crew member too since you won't know where he's gonna pop up at the end of the round therefore preventing the use his utility.

I'm not saying he's a Morkvarg or Olgierd level character in terms of lore and immortality but since anything lore friendly can be (and is) butchered for the sake of better gameplay, this would only make it a small issue.

Tl;dr (really?) Ronvid should return to board at the start of the round like he did before.

Seeing the sad position NR finds themselves in, reverting Ronvid won't be enough. Cursed archetype needs a significant boost, as well as control style Radovid and Henselt decks.

In the Midwinter update every other faction received new tools for their existing archetypes, while NR got mostly cursed units which don't function as an archetype yet.

 

[altaybek]

Seeing the sad position NR finds themselves in, reverting Ronvid won't be enough. Cursed archetype needs a significant boost, as well as control style Radovid and Henselt decks.

In the Midwinter update every other faction received new tools for their existing archetypes, while NR got mostly cursed units which don't function as an archetype yet.

While I agree NR received almost nothing positively, I must disagree that Henselt machines needs any buff. Can't say anything for others but Henselt is more than OK. Maybe some small tweaks to Siege Supports so they won't be removed instantly. They're like hunt animals with a huge target sign on their forehead and can't be played effectively 99% of the time

 

[Esmer]

Can't say anything for others but Henselt is more than OK. Maybe some small tweaks to Siege Supports so they won't be removed instantly. They're like hunt animals with a huge target sign on their forehead and can't be played effectively 99% of the time

Henselt decks are below 50% winrate across all MMR ranks, and the worst matchups are Radovid and SK decks. So even nerfing dwarves won't solve much (unless the meta shifts).
Henselt has the same issue as NG reveal - it has insane tempo and struggles with finishers. Ofc, you can potentially put out 6 machines in the last round, but that requires luck with Winches, Nenneke, Shani and your opponent not having removal. Too much inconsistency.

 

[Draconifors]

Actually it's not a bad idea to make him appear just 3 times, weakened by half (rounding down) with every defeat.
-First, he's just like he's now. (11 points vanilla) -Second time, he comes back with 3 armor and damages a random enemy by 2 (5 point armored Ronvid and 2 damage=7 point play. shield and sword!) -Third time, he spawns 2 point thug tokens each side.( 2 point Ronvid and 2+2 thugs= 6 points)
Fits his annoying nature better.

Haha, I like this idea.

Would also solve the issue(?) that Ronvid is currently the only carryover unit who can return an indefinite number of times.

 

[iamthedave]

But on the other hand, isn't he designed that way so that machines always has some synergy on the board? The deck kind of folds into a ball and weeps softly in the face of dedicated control.

 

[partci]

Not to mention how good of a counter against Frost he is.

 

[altaybek]

Henselt has the same issue as NG reveal - it has insane tempo and struggles with finishers. Ofc, you can potentially put out 6 machines in the last round, but that requires luck with Winches, Nenneke, Shani and your opponent not having removal. Too much inconsistency.

That's why Henselt=Improvisation while having A-B-C plans Playing Henselt machines for i-don't-know-how-many hundred matches and last season it helped me reach 4400 (still sad about missing 4500) and this season I'm around 4100 with 55%-ish WR. It's definitely not a top tier deck or can push more than this level but fun to play and works fine if you don't get greedy (trying to get 4+ machines at once in last round for example) Most of the times you don't even need to use machines more than once in a short last round if you have Borkh (Villen) and Scorch both (and Natalis/Horn helps a lot either for your side to buff or enemy side to create targets).

Still, nowadays a Iorveth usually pops up right after you place Borkh, one hits it with duel and half of your well planned, prepared play is gone. Apart from that, denying a player from placing Ciri: Nova or leveling 5 units to same power just to get scorched is way more entertaining than any bland thing point spamming decks can offer

 

[altaybek]

Haha, I like this idea.

Would also solve the issue(?) that Ronvid is currently the only carryover unit who can return an indefinite number of times.

Seriously I just made it up but seems viable.

Would you look at that... I started a thread suggesting a Ronvid buff and ended up nerfing it more for the sake of lore...

 

[iamthedave]

That's why Henselt=Improvisation while having A-B-C plans Playing Henselt machines for i-don't-know-how-many hundred matches and last season it helped me reach 4400 (still sad about missing 4500) and this season I'm around 4100 with 55%-ish WR. It's definitely not a top tier deck or can push more than this level but fun to play and works fine if you don't get greedy (trying to get 4+ machines at once in last round for example) Most of the times you don't even need to use machines more than once in a short last round if you have Borkh (Villen) and Scorch both (and Natalis/Horn helps a lot either for your side to buff or enemy side to create targets).

Still, nowadays a Iorveth usually pops up right after you place Borkh, one hits it with duel and half of your well planned, prepared play is gone. Apart from that, denying a player from placing Ciri: Nova or leveling 5 units to same power just to get scorched is way more entertaining than any bland thing point spamming decks can offer

I know its awful, but I can't help but run Vandergrift in my Henselt deck. I just love setting him up with machines. And that cry of 'What has that witch dooooooone?' Rubbish card mostly, but I love 'im when he works.