What the hell are you talking about? If you create a thinking conscious personality construct then you've created a soul. This isn't rocket science.
Yes, it absolutely = soul.
What the hell are you talking about? If you create a thinking conscious personality construct then you've created a soul. This isn't rocket science.
Yes, it absolutely = soul.
Ah I understand it now. The game NEVER said it but YOU interpreted it that way. OK so it was your opinion and not the game. Got it.
During the first meeting (Transmission). She alludes to it at least by saying it does what it says on the tin (Soulkiller kills the soul). V reaffirms it by saying something like "gotta kill me to save me".
It doesn't really mean anything because a soul isn't tangible or physical. It's a spiritual/religious concept. An AI should understand this but Alt can't seem to decide whether she's an AI or a human at any given moment. That or her thinking is still influenced by the echoes of her organic past.
A lot of what Alt says is cryptic for no real reason. When she was still connected to her body she still considered it as an avenue of escape, and that her original consciousness was still there. Even she considered herself as 'still alive' before Johnny botched it.
100% agree. I and others took issue with the statement that Alt can CREATE souls. Nothing in the game even remotely said this. Remember the key word here is create.
I'm sorry but I actually have no idea what you're saying. This isn't hyperbole. What are you talking about? I don't know what you're objecting to, what your point was, or what you're asking.
Please explain.
The movie "Transcendence" with Johnny Depp goes over this in a good amount of detail. But ultimately I believe it's what you personally consider a "soul" to be.
I don't think that scientifically it can be answered through "yes or no" study, experimenting, and conclusion. With respect to Alt and her methods, we see how she turns out. She even states, "As a Netrunner, I was able to survive." But clearly through discussion with Silverhand and V Alt clarifies that she has simply "maintained" her awareness of her state within the Net. In other words, she is capable of registering actions and decisions in a logical format similar to Google's Sicamor Quantum Computer or NASNet respectfully.
My take on the whole "digital psyche" discussion is that Arasaka has laid out the format towards "holocrons" from Star Wars. 99.999~% of the psyches uploaded won't retain their former selves (Jackie only used repetitive phrases) whereas with Sakuro Arasaka himself we do see something akin towards actual personality transference BUT we don't know the man's history enough to say for sure since his lines are but a few from what we personally witnessed. Even when he's responding to the board member at the meeting he repeats a quote that the two of them shared.
The only "system" that shows complete successful transference of the psyche is, If I'm correct, Altered Carbon. But IIRC the show doesn't go into specifics of how the discs actually work. The show just blanket messages it with "this is a thing that exists and that's what you accept"
Another close take is the flash-cloned AI's in Halo. However, the problem there is the "lifetime" of an AI construct with Rampancy. Even though the brain of the creator has been copied, the AI is still governed mostly by binary coding. Are feelings expressed at times? Yes. But are these authentic, or responding to the original brain's interpretation of a scenario similar to the presented one the AI has encountered and the 1/0 response that is deemed most appropriate used?
To bring this point to a close I would acknowledge that Alt has done some intense "fighting" with other constructs or programs beyond the Blackwall that her Netrunner skills have granted her the ability to better infer what decisions are beneficial to her coding similar to an anti-virus program running constant checks. And when a beneficial or neutral program is encountered, she bases her decisions on its compatibility for her success.
Sorry for the long post. Love the game and all it represents. Cried at each ending cause of how much I loved my character and how I based my actions on my actual needs or desires in life. And I'm not ashamed to admitthis.
I don't think that scientifically it can be answered through "yes or no" study, experimenting, and conclusion. With respect to Alt and her methods, we see how she turns out. She even states, "As a Netrunner, I was able to survive." But clearly through discussion with Silverhand and V Alt clarifies that she has simply "maintained" her awareness of her state within the Net. In other words, she is capable of registering actions and decisions in a logical format similar to Google's Sicamor Quantum Computer or NASNet respectfully.
My take on the whole "digital psyche" discussion is that Arasaka has laid out the format towards "holocrons" from Star Wars. 99.999~% of the psyches uploaded won't retain their former selves (Jackie only used repetitive phrases) whereas with Sakuro Arasaka himself we do see something akin towards actual personality transference BUT we don't know the man's history enough to say for sure since his lines are but a few from what we personally witnessed. Even when he's responding to the board member at the meeting he repeats a quote that the two of them shared.
The only "system" that shows complete successful transference of the psyche is, If I'm correct, Altered Carbon. But IIRC the show doesn't go into specifics of how the discs actually work. The show just blanket messages it with "this is a thing that exists and that's what you accept"
Another close take is the flash-cloned AI's in Halo. However, the problem there is the "lifetime" of an AI construct with Rampancy. Even though the brain of the creator has been copied, the AI is still governed mostly by binary coding. Are feelings expressed at times? Yes. But are these authentic, or responding to the original brain's interpretation of a scenario similar to the presented one the AI has encountered and the 1/0 response that is deemed most appropriate used?
To bring this point to a close I would acknowledge that Alt has done some intense "fighting" with other constructs or programs beyond the Blackwall that her Netrunner skills have granted her the ability to better infer what decisions are beneficial to her coding similar to an anti-virus program running constant checks. And when a beneficial or neutral program is encountered, she bases her decisions on its compatibility for her success.
Sorry for the long post. Love the game and all it represents. Cried at each ending cause of how much I loved my character and how I based my actions on my actual needs or desires in life. And I'm not ashamed to admitthis.
okay stop joking, we've got post-game therapy here
this thread is for lore and game facts with proofs and not personal interpretations
if something is not showed or said or written in book >>> it does not exist
The claim was made that Alt can create souls.
I and others asked where did Alt ever say she can CREATE SOOULS. These are the two keywords needed.
Answers were given that said the soul was destroyed and an engram was inserted back into the brain. You calimed this showed Alt can create souls when in fact the game never said that.
I don't understand the distinction. What are you not understanding?
What it is? It is what "makes us Human". A defining trait that we have used to justify our place in the world. In the general sense of Science, it is the Brain, the part we don't understand fully. Religious and other views aside that is. In Science it's a political (Yes Religion is a form of politics) tool to Justify hierarchy of Humans actions on those without or those who "Tainted" their soul.
You really don't understand the difference between a soul and an engram? Really?
I will repeat what I said before which is now even more obvious.
"the game NEVER said it but YOU interpreted it that way. OK so it was your opinion and not the game. "
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It could also be Capgras syndrome while rare, it does occasionally manifest itself in believing yourself to be an imposter. It could just also be that Johnny considers his body more himself than whatever the engram pulled, where as Old Man Arasaka, and Probably Adam Smasher would disagree with Johnny on this. It's isn't clear, and depends on what humanity is, what makes you, you....
singularity is ai replication, your "soul" will cease to exist because you as a person will die. the engram is essentially just an artifiical intelligence copy of your memories and personality
It takes time to rebuild neural pathways with nanomachines. You could most likely download an engram's knowledge into an empty brain, but memories and personality are basically dependent on neural pathways.
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If you read the info you get from Hellman its easy to see that Johnny and Saburo are just a copies as their artificial personality construct aren't equal to their original personalities.
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I think that you are making a bizarre distinction given that one line before Alt says the two are identical.
But sure man, whatever.
What game did you play? Alt NEVER said the soul was identical to the engram. In fact Alt says the opposite at the black wall.
Now if Alt actually said this you should be able to fdind proof and post the link. I'll be waiting.
Yeah I understood that to be true as well. During the board meeting it seems like it's convincing enough when Saburo roasts one of the board members for thinking it's a common parlor trick.
The interesting think about Johnny's copy is the ability for it to emulate the personality. To such an extent that it even "re-imagines" some of the memories so Johnny looks better when V peers into them. This SKAI sure is advanced techno-magic.
The personality constructs are actually Relic 2.0 technology not Soul Killer tech, it can be applied to any engram regardless of what version of Soul Killer was used. Though most likely it uses data from the engram to construct the personality construct so without Soul Killer it couldn't exist.