Story structure of Witcher 3

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Mrowakus said:
Agreed... though too short (less than 10 hours) would be a big bummer.

Well yes of course. But I would not mind 3 *well done* paths that are 25-30 hours personally.

But at least 2 paths, they should not take a step back.
 

Aver

Forum veteran
Seboist said:
Whichever one provides me with a pro-Nilfgaard path is fine by me.

I don't think that it will happen. Geralt hate Nilfgaard. It's the only political statement that he did in books. ;)

Nilfgaard tends to do mass genocides on conquered regions - just to place their own people there. They just kill whole cities - kids, women - everyone. In books there was scene where Geralt found out lumber-mill that was used to kill citizens of small town. Nilfgaardians used it to kill people more efficient. I can't imagine Geralt supporting such nation.
 
KnightofPhoenix said:
There is no way I'd want CDPR to take steps back and go with TW1 route. What they did was in today's day and age kind of revolutionary and no RPG I played does it.

If anything, TW3 should take that even further, by having 3 paths, or other paths within the 2 main paths, so 2 paths with 2 sub-paths each.

I don't care if it's shorter than TW1 (nevermind the fact that TW1 had a lot of useless waste of time), what I care about is quality.

Witcher 2 took a little less than 4 years to make and that included creating a new engine. I'm all for CDProjekt taking another 4 years to make a nice long game since they don't have to make a new engine (tweak it sure) so maybe something like that would be possible.
 
Don't forget that The Witcher was only that long because it had that bewildering 4th act which had nothing to do with the main story. The 5th act in Old Vizima and the swamp was also drawn out by having drowners and bloodzuigers popping out everywhere you went. That game lost a lot of steam after the 3rd act.
 
I think that the 4th act in W1 is basically a throwback to the Gothic Polish literature, and some more references for the fans of the novels... It feels kind of lengthy, but its purpose is to make the story "breath" more space... I think it works, since the first game is more about exploration and getting to know the world.

That sort of structure wouldnt work in Witcher 2, which is basically a fast paced political-thriller... And it's fair to assume they will keep that kind of structure for Witcher 3...
 
KnightofPhoenix said:
Well yes of course. But I would not mind 3 *well done* paths that are 25-30 hours personally.

But at least 2 paths, they should not take a step back.

Well, I've just finished Alpha Protocol. And lads I have to tell you - while TW2 is the king of makro C&C, Alpha Protocol is the supreme master of mikro C&C. If there are games that I wish The Witcher dev team took a closer look into (for inspiration) that one would be on the top of the list.

Amazing amount of C&C - I think that it's even unprecedented. Apart from that non-banal plot, mesmerizing characters, mindblowing events... It's lacking in the gameplay department unfortunately, but somehow it can be forgiven. The only reason I've waited so long with playing it was because I am not into the spy-novel genre... but boy was I wrong with missing this pearl.

If CDPRed pulled off the sheer amount of C&C like in Alpha Protocol as well as 1-2 makro C&C that would be a dream come true.
 
Duskey said:
Don't forget that The Witcher was only that long because it had that bewildering 4th act which had nothing to do with the main story. The 5th act in Old Vizima and the swamp was also drawn out by having drowners and bloodzuigers popping out everywhere you went. That game lost a lot of steam after the 3rd act.

Act IV is relevant because of Alvin, though truth be told all the interactions with him could have been done in Act III.

But I definitely agree that the game was extended by a lot of backtracking and a lot of pointless fighting especially in the swamps (God I hated them).
 
Mrowakus said:
Well, I've just finished Alpha Protocol. And lads I have to tell you - while TW2 is the king of makro C&C, Alpha Protocol is the supreme master of mikro C&C. If there are games that I wish The Witcher dev team took a closer look into (for inspiration) that one would be on the top of the list.

Amazing amount of C&C - I think that it's even unprecedented. Apart from that non-banal plot, mesmerizing characters, mindblowing events... It's lacking in the gameplay department unfortunately, but somehow it can be forgiven. The only reason I've waited so long with playing it was because I am not into the spy-novel genre... but boy was I wrong with missing this pearl.

If CDPRed pulled off the sheer amount of C&C like in Alpha Protocol as well as 1-2 makro C&C that would be a dream come true.

Oh absolutely, Alpha Protocol is fantastic. Like you said, it's the master of micro C&C. And what I love about it is that its choices are cumulative.

Also, alpha Protocol easily has my favorite protagonist of all time. The only game where I truly felt I was playing a magnificent bastard. There is no protagonist that comes close to having Michael Thorton's pro-activity and initiative, as well as his direct impact on the story.
 
JackintheGreen said:
I think that the 4th act in W1 is basically a throwback to the Gothic Polish literature, and some more references for the fans of the novels... It feels kind of lengthy, but its purpose is to make the story "breath" more space... I think it works, since the first game is more about exploration and getting to know the world.

You are right about that. This chapter was taken straight from one of the Polish theatrical classics - Balladyna by Julisz Słowacki. The whole deal with the wedding is very reminiscent of the tragedy. Once you'll read plot summary, you'll realise some bits are copy-pasted (an unfortunate flaw of the narrative in TW1).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balladyna_(drama)

That sort of structure wouldnt work in Witcher 2, which is basically a fast paced political-thriller... And it's fair to assume they will keep that kind of structure for Witcher 3...

You are right, but there's something wrong with the whole political deal. You see, in witcher saga, Geralt kept away from the politics as hard as he could, but for some reason he gets embroiled in it in TW2. Well, there's this assassination bit, being a fugitive you'd think he would avoid being recognized, and work in shadows... but it conveniently turns out that him being blamed for assassination is never an issue - everyone accepts him, regardless of his status. So the assassination and the whole clamour about clearing his name seems like a feeble excuse to make Geralt involved in all that. Pretty underplayed, if you ask me.

What I missed here was something personal that would drive him forward. I honestly hoped finding out about his past and/or locating Yennefer would give hims such an incentive. Alas...

But, hey - it was still very good.
 
KnightofPhoenix said:
Oh absolutely, Alpha Protocol is fantastic. Like you said, it's the master of micro C&C. And what I love about it is that its choices are cumulative.

Also, alpha Protocol easily has my favorite protagonist of all time. The only game where I truly felt I was playing a magnificent bastard. There is no protagonist that comes close to having Michael Thorton's pro-activity and initiative, as well as his direct impact on the story.

Hell yeah... He's become my favourite as well. He just does shit his way. Above all, he has charisma, flair and style - sorta like James Bond but in a little bit youthful and more energetic way.

And I loved the twist with

Scarlet

at the end.

I am really surprised, I really don't like that particular genre, but got sucked by the game through. I wish, however, the gameplay was better. If the dev team played a little bit of Hitman or Thief more we could be in for a treat. As it we get a huge, but also very rough diamond.
 

Aver

Forum veteran
but it conveniently turns out that him being blamed for assassination is never an issue - everyone accepts him, regardless of his status

It's not true. Mostly your friend accept you or people that need you help (Henselt). In Iorveth's ACT3 every guard want to kill you. In Roche's ACT3 it's reasonable that they don't want to kill you because Roche vouch for you.
 
Mrowakus said:
What I missed here was something personal that would drive him forward. I honestly hoped finding out about his past and/or locating Yennefer would give hims such an incentive. Alas...
Triss, lost memories and clearing his name seem personal enough to me.

And his kingslayer status is always taken in account wherever he showes up. Even some bounty hunters are after him.
 
@Babli.

I will answer all that in reverse order.

Babli said:
And his kingslayer status is always taken in account wherever he showes up. Even some bounty hunters are after him.

Well, not really. Bounty hunters seem like token mooks who appear to remind the player about the whole assassination bit (Assassination? Oh, that assassination - sorry I totally forgot about it while executing orders from Tamerian intelligence and king Henselt himself). Again, if there was issue with perhaps gaining Henelt's or Saskia's trust... But it all conveniently comes together - so again, it's more a contrived excuse to make things going, rather than good plot development.

Triss, lost memories and clearing his name seem personal enough to me.

And so I derailed the thread... Ok.

It is personal, but it's execution rubbs me the wrong way - like it came from Bioware or something. It seems to go against Geralt's established persona to not pursue his past from the start.

Unfortunately, because Triss tells Geralt that he shouldn't look for the clues about black hole in his memory, he quietly accepts that... Yeah, right - Geralt from the novels surely would listen to that . It was very apparent that devs couldn't think of any way to incorporate this huge, crucial plot thread into gameplay, they resorted to Triss essentially saying to the player: "Please, don't look that way... And don't ask questions..."

So, whereas The Nameles One from Planescape actively looks for each and every clue into his past incarnations, when Adam Jensen for Deus Ex: HR pursues every info about his beloved deceased(?) fiancee and in the course of it about his true origin, when Michael Thorton, from Alpha Protocol peeks into the dossiers and his enemies and friends to understand them better and use this knowledge to further his cause; Geralt sees some random visions triggered by random key-words uttered in conversation which had nothing to do with them...

I mean it wouldn't be that bad if those visions give you some infor that could open a subquest... or the other way round - were triggered by something that player did in pursuit of the truth... For instance, the conversation about Yennefer with Triss on the ship after escaping the prison could conceiveably serve that... or some subquest player does...

Hmm - saving life of not-so-innocent-but-not-completely-guilty former soldiers that offer you fortune or selling them to the vangeful spirit that will punish them more than they deserve in exchange for a clue about your past.

Or maybe betraying Roche - who up to this point showed nothing but good faith in you bailing you out from the prison and transporting you on - because Iorveth (whom you have no reason to trust, as he was indirectly responsible for framing you up) offers you intelligence on Yennefer.

Suddenly it makes sense now.

But, no - an uninteractive cutscene spoonfeeding us with info that we should be gathering through gameplay. I see hand of Bioware in this thing. Please, never again that.
 
Mrowakus said:
Well, not really. Bounty hunters seem like token mooks who appear to remind the player about the whole assassination bit (Assassination? Oh, that assassination - sorry I totally forgot about it while executing orders from Tamerian intelligence and king Henselt himself). Again, if there was issue with perhaps gaining Henelt's or Saskia's trust... But it all conveniently comes together - so again, it's more a contrived excuse to make things going, rather than good plot development.
You saved Henselt´s life in the beginning of Act 2. Saskia´s too. I think that´s enough to gain someone´s trust.


It is personal, but it's execution rubbs me the wrong way
ok

Anyway, back on track. If you wish to discuss this further, make another thread. I´ll gladly join discussion there.
 
secondchildren said:
Witcher 1 wasn't linear what so ever

It definitely was linear in the sense you end up doing the exact same thing, just picking a different side. TW2 is miles ahead in that regard.

Don't agree that TW2 is impersonal either but that's another discussion.
 
Duskey said:
Don't forget that The Witcher was only that long because it had that bewildering 4th act which had nothing to do with the main story.

Since when the main story is the only thing that counts in RPGs?! Take all side quests/stories from most RPGs, and you'll get games half their sizes. And thank God for that fourth act, because it was easily the best part of the game, and one of the most atmospheric piece of gaming I've ever encountered.

As for myself, I like TW2 approach, but indeed have felt that the game is just a little on the short side (I'm used to that old, long epics), and the fact that it had branching storyline just cannot justify the 'lack of meat on the bones' feel after your first playthrough (IMO, it lacked 5-8 hours to be perfect)..

Hopefully, TW3 will have more content (if they don't rush it), now that they don't have to build the game engine from the ground up..
 
Babli said:
How would your prefer the story of the next Witcher game to be structured?

Witcher 1 didnt offer as big game-changing choices as second one, but it was much longer game. I´d say even longer then both paths of W2 combined.

Second one has completely different acts 2 and 3, but game is just shorter than first Witcher, no way around that. And another problem is, that some people want to roleplay an ultimate character and dont even want to see other variables. But in this case, they would miss a lot. Thats not a criticism, mind you.

So which style would you want to see in next Witcher? 1? Or 2?

Or some combination of it? Like, let´s say 5 acts, where first two are like in W1, third act is different depending on choice and last two are like Loc Muinne, where you are at same place but with different people and quests?

I haven't played 1 yet and I am THOROUGHLY enjoying 2! It has pulled me from 2 others I was playing as well as the MMORPG SWOTOR. I also will be looking to purchase 1 so I can play that one since it would be great to get some background for 2.

As for 3... I would like to see the combo, but with some minor adds/changes. I do love to have long stories and also choices that matter, the choices are something new to gaming or at least to the ones I've played and it's very refreshing to choose the way I want to play instead of having someone else choose for me.

The adds would be to have a bit more "openness" to the game(s) and pathing changes as well, like my only "single" post - being killed because I can't step on a blade of grass or at the very least over it just seems wrong. I would also like to be able to move into dangerous areas and not be "protected" by a bush that keeps me from getting into an area where the monsters are going to have indecent sex acts on my corpse before eating it.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks that way, but I don't believe so - and also maybe that isn't what you were asking, but as you mentioned in your post
Thats not a criticism, mind you.
 
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