Technology worse than 2020 books?

[Maelcom404]

Anyway, as far as the net is concerned I think that 'localised' nets that encompass either cities or sections of them would both make sense with the post firestorm canon and solve the issue of players not being able to access data outside the 'physical' gameworld.

I really, REALLY hope they ditch lasers. I hate energy weapons.

I would like to see AVs as a luxury/premium transport option while standard automobiles would be the norm.

No insta-healing. I want 2077 to be as lethal as 2020 was. Keep healing in the 'days' region and I am happy. Maybe a similar process to 'Wanted' but with nanites.

That's my view too, a more "earth-grounded" Cyberpunk, without all the over-the-top technology, just a few AV and a few vehicules who don't use that much energy to work, some advanced medical tech, a lot of cyber-implants, new guns, new technological marvel like realistic holograms , etc... but the 5th Corp War probably calmed a lot of people about going too far with technology (except a few guys, wich we'll probably have to take care of during the story), like us, with the Nuclear Bomb after World War ll
For example, the braindance will probably be really advanced, but no one would have thought about cleaning up the Net, too much work and they probably thinked it was too easy back then to be hacked with it.

In this setting, there would be a large difference between the rich, and the poors, a corporate would have an amazing overpriced implant, but a streetpunk would wear an awfull cheap one, maybe used. In 2020 a good implant wasn't that much expensive, there you would have to earn a lot to get a good one.

Maybe they made an internet, similar to ours, just to transfer data, etc... but no "cyberspace", having a high tech, but being reasonable with it, knowing how everything has ended in 2025.
They'll probably use people like "Johnny Mnemonic" too, to send data from a corporation to another, etc...
I'd say there will have some "oldies" from 2020 in some places, but not as much as in the 2020 days

Also, about Netrunner, if the Net's gone, they probably learned to get their data from another source.

It's just some supposition after all.
I just don't want a "Cyberpunk V3".

 

[azriel77]

We had an earth grounded cyber punk, it was deus ex:HR. While fun, it was disappointing how surprisingly unfuturistic it felt. What is the point of having the cyberpunk license if we remove all the cool stuff? I want the world to really feel a bit far futuristic, not something we will have tomorrow. I do agree it should not be silly in the way the tech is handled, but just because something sounds silly, it really all depends on how it is implemented. I have heard of stuff that sounded stupid on paper, that ended up being really good in practice, and vice versa.

With that said, I will lose major interest if there is no, or limited, or only plot reasons to use cyberspace. I can totally get the majority of NPC people interact with the internet like we do with perhaps more options like alternative reality overlaying natural reality..etc. However, actually jacking into the internet in cyberspace should still be the realm of hackers(freelancers, rebels, corps, law..etc). Cyberspace is such a cyberpunk theme (the genre, not the books), that not having it, and you might as well just call it augmentationpunk. It is just an inconceivable idea.

I want to play a Netrunner, I want to break into corporate security and steal data, I want to browse cyberspace, I want to hack peoples bank accounts and transfer money, I want to read email/social networks/listen in on phone calls..etc and see their dirty little secrets (to sell or blackmail with), I want to hack cameras and see what is going on, or hack a vehicle and drive around an area by remote, I want to hack into a cyber brain and puppet/possess people with implants, or edit memories, I want to cruise cyberspace and go to dark nets to meet other hackers/trade stories/programs..etc, I want to release a virus on a corporate server that spams all corporate email with my manifesto and handle name,..etc..etc. And I want to do this any time from my home netrunner station and not be only be a plot devices, the net should always be accessible and I should be able to hack anyone/anytime. Obviously areas should be near impossible to hack until I build up my gear/skills/rep, but I should still be able to try and probably fail if I am not ready...that is what makes it fun.

 

[Suhiira]

The people who were kids in 2020 ... run the world in 2077...

Their memories of the era after the 4th Corp War ... will greatly determine the politics and socio-economic structures of 2077.

And this really has (or should have) profound implications on the world (i.e. game setting) of CyberPunk 2077.
Half the problems in the 60's were "caused" by the people from the Great Depression era that were running the world.
The same can of course be said when in the 90's when the Flower Children of the 60's were running it.

 

[vtmb]

Nah, it was just shit.... I wasted my time playing it, glad I didn't pay for it.

sure

But it's hardly an important game. A shooter with a twist ending just isn't important. I've read that story in other medium before, it's an old sci-fi theme, and you've probably seen variations on TV and in movies.

Without choice, you're simply playing out the role, and not your role, but the designers.

Understand that comparing single things makes everything unoriginal etc. It's just videogames are still young as medium and most people don't even know how to play games or what they are playing. Reasons why forums are so full of it
Bioshock games just point out player's role is as good as the character one. Usually you find funny chars joking around or being pumped while annihilating armies, covering dissonances with good storytelling so that you don't get to choose between shooting people or not. Most characters just aren't as ugly as their actions show. Also choice as a mechanic actually is a designer intervention Player's choice are the ones supported and sometimes characters might have different points of view. Reasons why bioshock characters are what they are

I really, REALLY hope they ditch lasers. I hate energy weapons.

heh, they are also the only good hitscan sisters

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

heh, they are also the only good hitscan sisters

Let's not have THAT debate again.

Well the 60s thats some 50 years ago. That would mean that the events from which Night City, more concretely the net-structure and other types of higher electronics systems in 2077 couldn't be managed to be reversed though the big catastrophe took place in the 2020s (not even by it's alive and kicking massive corporations) .
Even if it where something that happened some 30 years ago I would expect some broad improvement unless humanity lost all satellites and also the capability of sending them into space.

I actually expect the big bang to have happened some 10 or 15 years ago. Enough time to rebuild city structures and more of the absolutely necessary stuff - possibly some of the higher tech structures for those in power - but maybe not quite enough time to make higher tech available again to all those with lesser or little power.

So if it's not that long ago I would expect those who had access to higher tech and other older privileges to reminisce about them, or even curse those developments depending on their nature.

60s influences us powerfully today. Feel free to reference that statement to see just how many policies and policy makers are still with us, legal precedents, cultural vents, you name it. Even the 40s and 50s. The argument can and has been made that we're still struggling to climb our way back into a post-War economy and culture and it's screwing us. As well as everyone else.

If you are 10-20 now, you will be a policy maker 30-50 years from now. The people who were kids in 2020 and young people, run the world in 2077 and will run it for awhile, given life-extension tech.

Their memories of the era after the 4th Corp War, (stop spitting, Wisdom! It's undignified!), will greatly determine the politics and socio-economic structures of 2077. They will have been building the tech for the last 30 years and now decide the budgets for that tech, the direction for research, all those bennies from being in power.

Morgan Blackhand, Alt, Rache Bartmoss, Thompson and Johnny Silverhand are to 2077 what John Lennon, Allen Ginsberg, Hunter S. Thompson, Richard Nixon and Richard Feynman are to us now. They laid the cultural tracks that even today we trot along or jolt ourselves out of, willingly, knowingly or not.

Sure, people who lived through the events will be the ones making changes and propping up barstools, but the average person in the street would not have lived through those events.

When was the last time you heard someone talking about JFKs assassination, the fall of the Berlin Wall or the advent of CDs? How about of the most pivotal technological advances of the last 60 years, the microchip? (Documentaries not withstanding.)

People don't really talk about that stuff, it happened and that's it. Sure, people know about it but it's not really a hot topic or anything.

I expect us to hear tidbits occasionally or find references to what happened prior to the in-game date, but if we want to learn I expect we will have to find out for ourselves the old fashioned way. And I think that's a good way to go with it.


I would like to see Johnny Mnemonic style info couriers, especially as the tech was made available for that in 2020.


The infrastructure used to build the real internet was laid decades before in the form of phone lines. To replace the Cyberpunk net entirely with no chance of reinfection would realistically require either a complete physical replacement of its structure or a complete replacement of its code structure. Either way there would need to be no crossover or retroactive comparability.

 

[vtmb]

Let's not have THAT debate again.

Idk what you are talking about.
I don't remember having a discussion you actually knew shit about: P

 

[crrpt_dntt]

When was the last time you heard someone talking about JFKs assassination, the fall of the Berlin Wall or the advent of CDs? How about of the most pivotal technological advances of the last 60 years, the microchip? (Documentaries not withstanding.)

People don't really talk about that stuff, it happened and that's it. Sure, people know about it but it's not really a hot topic or anything.

JFK was one president replaced by the next.
The microchip is one technological acquirement that people got used to but never had to do without. Same goes for CDs that were just replaced by more convenient medium and lost its importance.

If the internet were to just vanish from one day to another you can be sure people would still be talking about it now and then if it still wasn't reestablished some 30 years later.

The fall of the Berlin Wall is supposedly still pretty relevant for people having lived in that former regime and not only to them and thats 25 years ago because the differences were/are vast and can still be perceived today. Of course it's of little to no concern for people who haven't been involved but the events of pre CP2077 will have had a direct effect on Night City so that's why it should be relevant to them ya know?

 

[Tupexi]

Yea, the idea that cybernetics exist, but the net does not is ridiculous.

Not just the net, but I really do not like the idea that technology will be less advanced than 2020. It should at least be the same level or even slightly more. The biggest problem I had with deus ex:HR was that it really did not feel futuristic. Oh sure, your character had cybergear, but remove him and it might as well be modern times. I want the world to scream that it is the future.

Another thing that stuck out in Deus Ex:HR was the lack of other cybernetic people. I mean, this is available technology, but where were the others? The only ones you saw was plot element people. The gear might not be on everyone, but enough random NPC's should be using advanced tech, an exotic, cybernetic...etc. and common enough that your character should not bat an eye.

Wasn't that the whole point of Deus Ex:HR?
That you basically have our modern age world, which gets shaken up by the introduction of Cybernetics. The pre-release Sarif industries trailers ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG_oThcYsn0 ) underlined exactly this. So it's not really fair to compare that to the cyberpunk setting IMO.
Also, I think there were plenty of augmented people in that world.

 

[vtmb]

There's a lot about deus ex games background that is covered around the net or some books. I'd also redirect you to the tvtropes pages of DE: Human Revolution and the cyberpunk genre for all kinds of topics, still the cyberpunk settings are some of the strong points of deus ex games that just keep changing from game to game.

 

[Sardukhar]

Idk what you are talking about.
I don't remember having a discussion you actually knew shit about: P

Ahhhh...that's a little aggressive. Tone! It is the delicate ketchup atop our delicious burger of conversation.

The neat thing about the Deus Ex games are how much they pulled from conspiracy theories and even human history. People that were into those things back in the day got a double rush from Deus Ex 1.

Deus Ex HR not so much. It was more a discussion of humanity and technology and, well, choice.

When was the last time you heard someone talking about JFKs assassination, the fall of the Berlin Wall or the advent of CDs? How about of the most pivotal technological advances of the last 60 years, the microchip? (Documentaries not withstanding.)

People don't really talk about that stuff, it happened and that's it. Sure, people know about it but it's not really a hot topic or anything.

I expect us to hear tidbits occasionally or find references to what happened prior to the in-game date, but if we want to learn I expect we will have to find out for ourselves the old fashioned way. And I think that's a good way to go with it.

Chris, I hear people talking about JFK, Berlin Wall, Cold War often, in the news and around me personally. Not, "Did you know JFK was assassinated?!" but, just the other day for example, "I read a news piece talking about how great JFK was, from an immigrants point of view. People still ignore he was a total adulterer. Times sure have changed."

My son has Stephen Hunter's new book on his desk downstairs, the JFK conspiracy the subject.

Anytime 911 or the War on Terror comes up, someone is sure to bring up the Cold War and the nuclear threat, if for no other reason than to contrast the two eras.

On the other hand, given how fast media moves and the Collapse in between 2020 and 2077, I agree that it would mostly be tidbits to the player. The older ones would have the lessons of 2020 firmly in mind, but the player character and most NPCs would not, unless older.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

JFK was one president replaced by the next.
The microchip is one technological acquirement that people got used to but never had to do without. Same goes for CDs that were just replaced by more convenient medium and lost its importance.

If the internet were to just vanish from one day to another you can be sure people would still be talking about it now and then if it still wasn't reestablished some 30 years later.

The fall of the Berlin Wall is supposedly still pretty relevant for people having lived in that former regime and not only to them and thats 25 years ago because the differences were/are vast and can still be perceived today. Of course it's of little to no concern for people who haven't been involved but the events of pre CP2077 will have had a direct effect on Night City so that's why it should be relevant to them ya know?

Ahhhh...that's a little aggressive. Tone! It is the delicate ketchup atop our delicious burger of conversation.

The neat thing about the Deus Ex games are how much they pulled from conspiracy theories and even human history. People that were into those things back in the day got a double rush from Deus Ex 1.

Deus Ex HR not so much. It was more a discussion of humanity and technology and, well, choice.



Chris, I hear people talking about JFK, Berlin Wall, Cold War often, in the news and around me personally. Not, "Did you know JFK was assassinated?!" but, just the other day for example, "I read a news piece talking about how great JFK was, from an immigrants point of view. People still ignore he was a total adulterer. Times sure have changed."

My son has Stephen Hunter's new book on his desk downstairs, the JFK conspiracy the subject.

Anytime 911 or the War on Terror comes up, someone is sure to bring up the Cold War and the nuclear threat, if for no other reason than to contrast the two eras.

On the other hand, given how fast media moves and the Collapse in between 2020 and 2077, I agree that it would mostly be tidbits to the player. The older ones would have the lessons of 2020 firmly in mind, but the player character and most NPCs would not, unless older.

Maybe not the best choice of examples and I should have worded it differently:

These events mean far, far less to people who did not live through them than those who did.

It's like asking a teenager to imagine life without a mobile phone or the internet but in reverse.

My point is that only people who are about 60+ in 2077 would remember what life was like when there was still a net, so that would only be a fraction of the population. You can't miss what you have never had.

 

[Sardukhar]

You can't miss what you have never had.

But..but I miss your sweetness every day. All day.

I'd bet CDPR are going to use the Collapse as en excuse to set up a 2020 tech level with the occasional new thing, and throw in certain 2020 references that are now iconic. Like, I dunno, seeing a poster of Alt in the background of a street the way you might see a poster of Marilyn Monroe now.

 

[Suhiira]

It's like asking a teenager to imagine life without a mobile phone or the internet but in reverse.

My point is that only people who are about 60+ in 2077 would remember what life was like when there was still a net, so that would only be a fraction of the population. You can't miss what you have never had.

I guess this is a point we'll have to agree to disagree on.
I just don't see the government/corps tolerating the loss of the ability to e-mail/instant message, video conference, transmit and access information from one point in the world to another virtually instantly. And if the net exists then maybe not everyone, but a large segment of the population is going to have access to it one way or another.

 

[azriel77]

I guess this is a point we'll have to agree to disagree on.
I just don't see the government/corps tolerating the loss of the ability to e-mail/instant message, video conference, transmit and access information from one point in the world to another virtually instantly. And if the net exists then maybe not everyone, but a large segment of the population is going to have access to it one way or another.

I agree, there is no way the net would not be fixed/rebuilt asap. I would say the net would probably be the first thing up after the fall. It is just too damn useful to everybody. I would agree that cities might be islands like a giant local network and anything coming in/out of the city is heavily monitored by both gov and corps to prevent another virus attacks. Cyberspace should be alive and well, just limited to individual cities except for certain heavily monitored data points connecting cities/world/sapce.

 

[Sardukhar]

I agree, there is no way the net would not be fixed/rebuilt asap. I would say the net would probably be the first thing up after the fall. It is just too damn useful to everybody. .

No. I live in a place where we lose power - sometimes whole cities lose power. For days. Internet being restored is not the first priority in a disaster. Communications go up fast - radios typically stay up on different networks - but internet comes after medical, water, heat...you know, the little things.

Many places even now have no internet. Large parts of my island and other rural locations, for example. It's not as essential as you think.

If the Internet as we know it was badly damaged enough, by viruses or what have you, they would have to be very careful putting it back online. Server backbones, trunks, all these would have to be carefully cleaned, checked, recleaned, isolated and then put on in limited fashion.

 

[dragonbird]

But "communications" has increasingly come to mean the cellphone system, not radio, at least in cities. And if cellphones are back, the internet is also back. Maybe not in all of its glory, but I can't see it taking even a decade, however badly the infrastructure was damaged. After all, they did it in under a decade the first time.

My understanding is that, unlike real disasters, the basic needs of food/water/shelter aren't an issue, which means power and communications would take priority.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Maybe not in all of its glory, but I can't see it taking even a decade, however badly the infrastructure was damaged. After all, they did it in under a decade the first time.

The infrastructure was damaged, it was the virus. The code that the entire system was based on was infected during its creation, the virus was written into the very fabric of the net.

Imagine if Binary Code was fatally flawed in th same way, that if someone triggered a specific switch the whole binary system would become useless.

That us what happened to the net in 2024.

I can see a new system being put in place and to me it would make sense to have localised networks that could be isolated and quarantined, like partitions on a hard drive, should one become infected.

 

[azriel77]

The problem is, I just do not believe nobody had backups. Especially with netrunners/viruses existing before the big V hit. Anybody with brains would have had a backup systems separate from the internet for valuable backups/data or even just hard drive records. There is no reason they would have to start from scratch, they would just start sectioning off parts of the corrupted network, wipe/clean the systems, put in older backups with a patch that prevents the virus. It would be slow going, but it would not take that long, relatively speaking.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

The problem is, I just do not believe nobody had backups. Especially with netrunners/viruses existing before the big V hit. Anybody with brains would have had a backup systems separate from the internet for valuable backups/data or even just hard drive records. There is no reason they would have to start from scratch, they would just start sectioning off parts of the corrupted network, wipe/clean the systems, put in older backups with a patch that prevents the virus. It would be slow going, but it would not take that long, relatively speaking.

Ah, Arasaka had backups. That's why Militech used a tactical nuke on the tower... Which set off the bigger nuke in the tower...

The net was rebuilt with the 'wotsit-called' algorithms, (can't remember the names,) something 'grubs', anyway, Rache Bartmoss was online at the time and laid the virus into said algorithm. Anything that every went online or was transferred online or put on a device that had connected to the net could potentially be infected.

I am sure there would be data that was safe out there, but the net itself, utterly fucked.

 

[wisdom000]

Arasaka is based out of Japan, the arasaka towers attack really would have accomplished very little.