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This is usually what people start to do once they have no argument.
Why even bring up such a stupid comparison though? It didn't help your point at all
I don't care about the books so Triss is more developed and a better character in my opinion
Not everyone is cynical to the point where a good romance or love story between fictional characters is revolting. It has nothing to do with people wanting to supplement their own lack of love life, rather it's quite the opposite. It's no question that a large portion of people are romantics in the literary sense. So it's not surprising when a game that has so many compelling and rich characters can upset people in the way that we see. People aren't feeling sad for themselves, rather people are feeling sorry for their construction of Geralt. Even though I concluded the game and totally understood that the free roam was an extra, I couldn't help myself feel kinda sad because Geralt was all alone in Kaer Morhen. I picked Yen over Triss, so personally I was quite pleased and satisfied with how my game concluded, including the development of their romance. I can also sympathize with people who picked Triss not getting that same level of detail and closure; all because they wanted to choose differently in a game where such a choice is allowed.
While adding new quests or completely new areas might give actual new content, it will not be as satisfying as seeing Geralt and Triss have a proper romance. Everyone wants their Geralt to be loved and be the happiest Geralt. They didn't get that nice feeling of a heartwarming romance (see first 10min of UP) and thus they concluded their saga without having experienced that for their Geralt.
I agree that Yennefer is more fleshed out and developed but you're missing a major point, this isn't about the books.
Nice! He is totally self-centered, I'm done.
It is literally best way to just ignore him...
Why everyone who are on "Yen side" talking about books if games are non-canon....? I can't undestandt this... and Jou05 i agree with you
Well Yennefer does have more of a dynamic with Ciri. Yennefer is looking for Ciri as much as Geralt is. She truly is involved when it comes to finding Ciri. Triss is as well to a small extent, but she is pretty much only there as a helping hand... and as a helping hand who is mostly preoccupied with other things. I mean the scene before and after Ciri arrives at Kaer Morhen shows this the best. Yennefer is pacing back and forth waiting for Geralt and Ciri. Once they arrive her reaction to seeing Ciri is pretty much what you might expect from an very protective and happy mother who has seen her child for the first time in years. Also there's Avallach's lab, and there's the scene where Ciri goes to meet with the lodge.
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The books are the entire basis of the games. Just because they games are non-canon does not mean that the books suddenly become non-canon to the games (because the books are the entire backstory).
Not only Triss content but sadly the whole act 3 and the endings of the game make me think they rush a bit, i am not saying that The Witcher 3 is not a good game, it's a great game, but in a game with such a great story the act 3 and the endings are really not fit for an epic game, we have so few interaction with main characters .... and i don't really want to talk about postending gameplay ..... with that they drop the ball a lot. Maybe they will give us a future dlc to fix the problems, or maybe not, because with mods we can't do much atm, even with a modding tool we can not give Triss or Yen or any other character more dialog options, we don't have the voice actors to do it.
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Kaer Morhen was indeed the low point of the Triss stuff but I think pretty much everything from Novigrad on was more disappointing than it should have been. :X I owe it partially to the lack of dialogue options and partially to the game not acknowledging your choice. I think this would be the most rewarding fix as it would go a long, long way to making it feel like Triss is an actual part of the story instead of just another sorceress. There are other things that could be done, potentially easier things too, but this one would pay off in a big way. There's no real way of knowing though so let's not count anything out.
You also get this feeling that if Yen were absent from the end game, it would leave a huge hole and feel just horrible. The same is not true of Triss. :X I mean don't get me wrong, I would be upset if she was truly gone, but would the sequence of events change all that much? I don't know, I think not, and that is why she feels decorative, just there so that us Triss-fans can see her and be happy.
I mean, I get why she wasn't a big part of the story, after all, this is Geralt and Ciri's (and by some extension Yen's because family), but that doesn't mean she should have been diminished to the extent that she was. Her Novigrad story is good for sure but even her role in that wasn't as significant as it could have been. Think about it, you meet her and there is some post-breakup awkwardness (to be expected) and then she sends you off to Corine Tilly. Soon after, you get tangled up with the criminals while looking for Dandelion and are soon set up with Dijkstra. She makes a few minor appearances (Margrave Henckle's house) and doesn't really reappear until you go to get Menge. A great scene, for sure, but then after that you rescue Dandelion and then you're technically done in Novigrad. You can head off for Skellige if you wish. She doesn't get a lot of significant screen time until her side quests to rescue the mages. And just when it gets good, when you're finally ready to have some real, possibly romantic interactions, she disappears, for whatever reason, and doesn't reappear until Yennefer tells her to. :X
This is all to say that, for a major character, I don't feel that the final chapter to her story was very satisfying. As has been said before, what we have is incredibly well done but that doesn't make up for the lack of opportunity and integration in the later game.
Yeah, it is hard to say whether or not this directly referencing the kiss. You could claim that it is but since she doesn't really say anything meaningful about it, you can also could claim that it isn't. This would have been a nice place for just three or four small lines of dialogue to know that she didn't think anything of it. It's one thing to think it, but it is another thing entirely to say it. The relationship dynamics at play here are incredibly complex and there is not really any room for subtext. With the possibility of feelings being hurt around any corner, everything should be made explicit. What if that kiss really did bother her? Well, we have no real way of knowing. Concurrently, what if it really didn't bother her? Again, no real way of knowing. Like if I know she wasn't bothered by it and I don't want to talk to her about it, that should be my choice. I shouldn't be forced into the "choice". Choice being in quotation marks because there isn't even a choice in the first place. Give us the proper tools to create our own narrative.
Would have been a really nice scene. I think of all the small dialogues I have crafted, this is one that I think I captured quite nicely. Post 1502 if you missed it the first time around. She has more history with Vesemir than anybody else, except Geralt and the other Witchers, and she should have had something to say. Comforting words from mutual acquaintances is more comforting than platitudes from people who didn't even know the guy. Hjalmarr's dialogue is the best example I can think of. He said sorry and whatever else, but because he didn't know Vesemir, it falls flat. Triss's dialogue could have actually been comforting. She's standing off to the side with Yennefer, however, and when you go to talk to either of them, it immediately goes into the next part of the game. Don't know why it pushes you forward so quickly, why there weren't a few white dialogue options, before you hit the yellow one, "So. What's next?". When in a lot, a lot of quests, you get the option to start the quest or come back later.
As @Raptorini said, when they are done with critical patches. Basically when they don't have more pressing matters at hand. I actually have some hope for us in this case. The other most popular thread on the forums is the "Immersion Destoryer" thread (nary 500 posts and like half the views) and they are arguing for end-game state. Not having everybody disappear after the credits and whatnot. One of the devs came on and basically said that they don't have any plans for that because it is a humongous undertaking. Because they haven't come here to dissuade us, it makes me think that they are at least considering some of our changes.
Great post again, man do you have a way with words.
I don't even have much to say because I think you hit the nail on the head but I want to special emphasis on the bolded part. Nothing suggests she would have faded into the background as she did and being that she is one of the two main romance options, it doesn't seem right.Wholeheartedly agree. One's choice of who to spend the rest of the days with is one of the most important issues one will face in their life. The romance definitely should have had a larger emphasis. The main story is so strong already that I think it could have stood to take a minor hit or two at the benefit to some of the romance.
Well said, I think we need something. Anything at all would help. There are priority issues here, sure, but I'd be willing to settle for a few dialogue tweaks and an additional quest or two. Would go a long, long way to making it feel more satisfying.
This is another great point. A little bit more variation would have shown that Yen is still important to him, which she always will be, but she's not his main focus anymore. It sucks to say it out loud, but she missed her chance. By allowing the relationship between Geralt and Triss to progress past a certain point, she put her own relationship at risk. Like I wish there were a few more choices during the Last Wish. Like she says "Nothing's changed" and you either only say "I love you" or "Sorry, magic's gone" (horrible thing to say to anybody by the way, but not really the point). I wish, if you said no to her, there was another option to explain your rationale:
Like Yen asks "How can this be?" and you could say any of the following.
"It's because of Triss. She's the one now. Sorry, Yen" <--- Because you choose Triss obviously but still care about Yen
"I just don't feel it anymore." <--- You choose Triss and don't really care for Yen at all so being a little more blunt doesn't bother you
"I don't know... " <--- You don't want to romance anyone so you can choose to be indecisive
It seems like there were a lot of conversations that they wrapped up prematurely in order to push you toward the next big event. I have to say though, if there is enough time to run all over Velen blowing up Drowner nests, then there is surely enough time to be able to talk about these sort of things.
Welcome to the club @FelixL
Don't forget to vote and thanks for the support. You're among friends here. It's obviously a very complex dynamic that is not easily resolved. That's why even if you romance Triss, you feel that you aren't given the proper closure on the Yennefer side of thing. They could have 50 lines of dialogue between them and it still wouldn't be enough. They have so much history and they also have Ciri to worry about so I find it unsatisfying that you get to break her heart in the Last Wish and you only get a few lines of dialogue. Just don't feel, as Triss would say, reconciled.
I agree, Madoga. Good intentions only get you so far. Hopefully they are listening to us on here. They for sure have already noticed us.
Now we just need to wait and see.Yeah... There's no way that they sat down and said, "Okay. So all in favor of setting Triss to the side, say aye. Okay it's settled. To the back burner with her!" There's just no way.
I am sure that she does. Based on Triss's character, I have no doubt that she worries for him, but it still would help to hear it. Same in real life when someone close to you, a family member for example, dies you know everyone's feeling for you but it helps to hear it directly from them. Subtext simply has no place in such a complex relationship.
She is a powerful sorceress though and she could have easily been there in a supporting role. There to support Geralt, there to help with the curse, even there to help Yen. Even if things are tense with her "stealing" her man away, she could have been integrated into this plot point relatively easily.
I agree - I think a Citadel-style-DLC is our best bet for vindication. Probably the easiest to do without possibly disrupting what is already there. However, I will not discount anything and any and all suggestions are welcome here.
I like the way you phrase things, kudos to you.
I agree that it seems they do care because what we have is stellar. What we don't have really, really hurts the romance narrative though. I think they should also, if it was the case, not have made Triss appear "insignificant" in light of how significant Yennefer was. Neither is inherently better than the other and equal thought, effort, emphasis should have been placed on both of them. We can argue all day over the "why" they did something but in the end I think we can all agree that something must be done.This is why I keep crafting my own dialogues to sprinkle into the game next time I play. They allow what was already going to happen, to happen anyways and they just add a bit more context. More emotion. More heft and importance to you choice. I also agree that extra content wouldn't fix everything that was wrong, but if handled appropriately, it would go a long way to helping to bridge the gap.
I am sorry but I have to disagree. Triss is a big element of the story building up to the game. She was there extensively in the previous two and she does play a role in this one. The other ladies weren't options because they simply weren't written that way - they didn't feel the same way about Geralt as Triss does. Whatever your feelings about Triss, you can't deny that she has been an important part of his life. Especially getting his memory back. Which she did because she felt something pretty significant for him. For their relationship to be given the ending it got, it just feels not right. You're entitled to your opinion though and I respect the discussion. Not trolling specifically.
So thanks for that.1000 times yes to this. Especially for this game which emphasizes player choice so heavily.
I think a couple of people have said that on her, but it not the main focus of this thread. Personally I don't want less Yennefer. Just a little bit more consistency with Triss and for my choices to feel validated. Not like I went with the "wrong" choice. That is all.
Seriously you guys are unbelievable (in a good way). It took me almost two full hours to formulate this post, trying to get caught up from last night. I really like that this thread is staying strong.
And I started skimming a lot toward the end because I don't feel the need to respond to fighting in threads. It's just silly. But seriously, every time I flipped the page and saw another page was added, I died a little inside because I knew it would take me that much longer to make my first post of the day.Guys, if someone is bothering you, saying off-topic, incorrect, or rude things, seek moderator intervention (report the post) or just don't say anything at all. I could see after the first comment that things were starting to get heated. And I had a bad feeling how the next few pages would play out. I would hate for this thread to devolve into a pitchfork mob - we have done a good job of staying civil and on topic so far. Let's not let it all go to waste now.
For the overnight update, over 70k views, just broke 2000 posts, and there are 455 votes in the poll (84% in our favor).
I want to give a special shoutout to @ltdk92 your posts have been some of the most thoughtfully crafted and well-constructed on this thread. @shaedhen I think you should look at some of his stuff and consider adding it to the front page.
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Thanks for normal respond....I'm trying to keep my side without attack your side
Not everyone is cynical to the point where a good romance or love story between fictional characters is revolting. It has nothing to do with people wanting to supplement their own lack of love life, rather it's quite the opposite. It's no question that a large portion of people are romantics in the literary sense. So it's not surprising when a game that has so many compelling and rich characters can upset people in the way that we see. People aren't feeling sad for themselves, rather people are feeling sorry for their construction of Geralt. Even though I concluded the game and totally understood that the free roam was an extra, I couldn't help myself feel kinda sad because Geralt was all alone in Kaer Morhen. I picked Yen over Triss, so personally I was quite pleased and satisfied with how my game concluded, including the development of their romance. I can also sympathize with people who picked Triss not getting that same level of detail and closure; all because they wanted to choose differently in a game where such a choice is allowed.
While adding new quests or completely new areas might give actual new content, it will not be as satisfying as seeing Geralt and Triss have a proper romance. Everyone wants their Geralt to be loved and be the happiest Geralt. They didn't get that nice feeling of a heartwarming romance (see first 10min of UP) and thus they concluded their saga without having experienced that for their Geralt.
Agreed. I can definitely understand the argument put forth by people who were strongly disappointed by the Triss romance option given in the game. I myself did the Yen romance during my first walkthrough and found it satisfying. I am currently doing the Triss romance, in addition to making different choices, on my second walkthrough to experience the various outcomes. CDPR has presented the Witcher series as a RPG game from the start and not a linear action format, which they could have done given the source material. And from the start, they gave players romance options, which should have been avoided if it was going to clash with story progression. Unfortunately, you cannot follow two paths that are incompatible as they are not conducive for giving a thoroughly engrossing and satisfying experience, i.e. have a default romance or multiple romance options. The onus fell on CDPR to give the best experience they could if they were going to go one course or another--and again--this is for the romance options. When it comes to how Triss appears narratively, I think the devs were uncomfortable with giving her more time with the characters as friend and "family" member because they had elevated her as strongly a romance character in the previous games. They probably felt that this characterization of Triss would conflict with Yen and Geralt's interactions, which I don't think is necessarily so. There could have been banter that allows the player to see that there is genuine closeness between Yen/Triss, Ciri/Yen, and Triss/Ciri. It would allow the player to be more assured about their decision in romantic partner, whoever that may be.
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Yeah. CDPR have now lots of work, for example they should relase very important patch 1.05 (for PC) on Monday and we still didn't get it. They are working hard now. We must just wait
A good point again. Some more interaction by all the major characters would have given you some reassurance that your choice was "right". In the end, as long as your choices coincide with your own personal narrative they are all right choices. There's a lot of interpersonal dynamics that remain more or less untouched and that is a bit disappointing. :X
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