The Witcher 3 - Visuals

[wichat]

I kniw my use of "mature" is not correct as the standard meaning. I use it a whole mark of The Wicher World concept we (as CDPR did too) find in the books: a lot of variety of colors and lights and feelings perfectly merged without loose any sense.

Anc please, excuse me for my English. I've tryed to don't use Google trans and I've failled. Sorry

 

[OliverDK]

To be honest, I loved the brownish, grainy filter effect of early screenshots together with it's high sharpness (as if present in the one early gif in which Grealt walk through the little village with the windmill in the background). But I don't like it because it looked more real or more gritty. I liked it because it gave the game a kind of unique, "cool", artistic look. The more plain, unfiltered gameplay of newer footage is of course basically the same stuff but it looks more "generic" to me (in the lack of a better descriptive term), more like everything else. I think the atmosphere of these early shots were indeed great and better than the one of now but that's surely subjective and I think it might be based on different reasons (as stated above). It was mainly a distinctive design with a big recognition value, especially combined with the already unique art direction of the game. I wouldn't call it more mature though because I think that color palettes, filters and such have little to nothing to do with how mature a game is. But there is one thing we might agree on and it's maybe your starting point after all: the staging and the way graphical assets and effects are used to strengthen the narrative vision. That is much less about the overall tone of the game or the overall quality of graphics or the color palette or filters but in which way graphical assets are used in very specific locations and settings (and maybe in the overall game, like the graphical display of violence). The problem with the location and setting specific assets is that there is just no real basis for a solid comparison. We'd need the same two locations displaying the same situation from early and latest footage for a sound assessment on whether there is a difference in how graphical assets are used to present and strengthen the narrative, e.g. the attention to detail and the quality and selection of assets used.

I completely agree with your assessment and we need more data and the newly released screenshot is defiantly interesting in this regards.

 

[gogmeister777]

While I do like gritty, darker settings and imagery, I certainly would only want them used sparingly, not throughout the whole of the game, especially in a large open-world like this. Brighter, more colourful places make sense, especially in more wealthy areas in cities with regards to buildings and clothing and also for fields and most forests. My only fear was/is that there would be NO dark and morbid areas at all due to an all-encompassing art style.

Having the occasional grim area is good in order to not just provide a certain kind of atmosphere but also to have contrasting locales since then a change of scenery will have more impact imho.

I also find that an area doesn't have to be dark to be creepy. Sometimes an environment can be foreboding and creepier thanks to an unnatural combination of horror and decay alongside otherwise pleasant and wholesome landscapes. The tall, golden grassed fields with the abandoned farmhouse surrounded by noonwraiths in TW1 for example.

Finally, I loved the way TW1 had some magical, almost romanticised places, such as the altar by the moonlit lakeside in the pics posted on the first page. I hope there are some similar scenes in TW3

 

[B_l_a_d_y]

into my veins

 

[OliverDK]

into my veins

The first screenshot is CLEARLY downgraded - how DARE they! :hai:

 

[jantherocker]

I can understand people who just would like a more "dark" tone

But my problem with this whole discussion is: The Witcher is more than anything in Slavic Medieval Word but with a fantasy twist.
So the setting is realistic Mediaval Europe.

And i guess alot of people have a wrong image of colors and "lightness" in Mediaval Times. Propably because its also called the " the dark ages" But that has do do with a darkness in development,science and knowlege not with actuall darkness.

Any Medieval Town was way more colurfull than people would imagine. Clothing was colurfull, dyeing was really big back then.

I frequently visiting(and taking part in) Medieval Festivals in Germany. I can tell everyone there is nothing "dark" there.

I guess that to some this argument is irrelevant because they simply disagree with the art style.

But i'm just saying that CDPR always tried to show real Slavic Medieval tone. mixed with fantasy.
In my mind they totally do that.

just my 2 Cents

 

[GuyNwah]

"Dark Ages" is actually one of the most inaccurate, least descriptive, and most pejorative terms used in popular accounts of history. If it is to have any meaning worth having, it would be the scarcity of solid historical record. The idea that scholarship and arts were in decline or impeded by institutions is a canard.

Towns and dress of that time, as of any other, were as bright as the locals could afford, and the dyers and painters could provide.

 

[bartgesang]

Towns and dress of that time, as of any other, were as bright as the locals could afford, and the dyers and painters could provide.

And none of the two Witcher games, published so far denied this fact. Despite beeing "dark and gritty", they offered colorful costumes, art, cosy homes and magnificent architecture. I don´t understand this discussion.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Offtopic note (sorry):

It's actually a bit sad that video games are "only" audiovisual. The human sense of smell is probably the most sensitive and even most impressive sense we have although visual and aural senses seem to be more obvious. The same audiovisual setting in real world can be perceived a whole lot differently if there are different odors in the air. The crazy thing about smelling is that the information we gather by our noses goes directly to our subconciousness. We don't really think about what we smell usually. But it has a whole lot to do with how we perceive and evaluate a scenery. It goes so far that actually the odor of another human being subconsciously decides whether we like them or not.
In the Witcher books by Sapkowski there are often descriptions of smells and odors for a good reason. They say often more about a certain situation or scenery than the visual description. Too bad that video games cannot transport that and that they have to rely on audiovisual tools...

 

[Maganus]

into my veins

Just got me thinking of how great the clouds were in W1. Damn, CDPR's "Cloud Guy" should get a pay rise! xD

 

[GuyNwah]

Offtopic note (sorry):

It's actually a bit sad that video games are "only" audiovisual. The human sense of smell is probably the most sensitive and even most impressive sense we have although visual and aural senses seem to be more obvious. The same audiovisual setting in real world can be perceived a whole lot differently if there are different odors in the air. The crazy thing about smelling is that the information we gather by our noses goes directly to our subconciousness. We don't really think about what we smell usually. But it has a whole lot to do with how we perceive and evaluate a scenery. It goes so far that actually the odor of another human being subconsciously decides whether we like them or not.
In the Witcher books by Sapkowski there are often descriptions of smells and odors for a good reason. They say often more about a certain situation or scenery than the visual description. Too bad that video games cannot transport that and that they have to rely on audiovisual tools...

AromaRama, anyone? It's never been used as anything but a gimmick, but it's not totally impractical, and it works when it's done well.

 

[Tokei-ihto]

Initially I wanted to write an exhausting rebuttal to correct certain apparently popular misconceptions and clarify that ...

1) ... a) grim and gritty has, in fact, not necesaarily something to do with the depiction of a gruesome and violent medieval-inspired world in which horrible acts are commited, b) is oftentimes falsely equated to a (perceived) grounded and realistic portrayal of fantastical things and c) actually describes a topical approach - and its thematic rationalization - to crafting a setting that is not only permeated by pessimism, cynism and apathy but positively revels in it.

2) ... the Witcher has never been part of the grim and gritty genre despite submerging itself occassionally into dark territory and grappling with unpleasant themes.

3) ... grim and gritty has no monopoly on dark settings that are populated by multi-layererd, complexly drawn characters perpetrating amoral acts.

3) ... a) the Witcher games have always featured a highly stylized art direction and b) the VGX's desaturated visual look has hardly anything to do with realism or/and authenticity.

4) ... a game world that - thanks to being habitually plunged into greyish tones and brownish hues - exhibits a permanent atmosphere of harshness, somberness and gloom is pretty boring, shallow and ultimately monotonous.

5) ... there's nothing unique about the Witcher 3's original art style and its limited colour palette. This has become the go-to option (especially in video games) whenever someone wants to create a wartorn, post-apocalyptic/dystopian, horror or (pseudo)medieval setting since Saving Private Ryan burst onto the scene in 1998. It's the epitome of generic.

6) ... creating a visually more balanced world which is not drenched in wash-out colors is not only tonally more interesting and appealing, it makes emotionally devasting story events (or a display of horrifc acts) hit all the harder in the same way that humor not only elevates the mood but can make dramatic developments more visceral.

7) ... the grim and gritty genre is actually incredible juvenile, boring and depressingly immature.


But I decided to keep it short and in note form because all I could do was think of how perfectly this little gem summarized and poked fun at the inherent ridiculousness of grim and gritty. It may be aimed at Batman specifically, but it basically applies to the whole subgenre.

PS: I'm of course aware that not everyone who favors the VGX/SoD trailer's art style does so because he/she thinks it's representative of grim and gritty.

 

[OliverDK]

You will get no objection from me in regards to that there's generally a misconception about the middle ages being dark, gray, dull and colorless. It was more colorful that people think.

Where I do object is that there is somehow no middle ground in that discussion and because for example paintings and drawings show a wide variety in colors and dyes then that must have been the reality which is as far from the true as "the dark" age perception. The middle ages is a great interest of mine and I have talked to a few historians on that subject and the truth is that paintings, drawings, poems, and whatnot are far from reality that actually existed - especially the common people which made up the vast majority at that time.

Sure the clothes were more colorful that we think but they was also stained, muddy, torn, stitched back together and most of all they where washed out and faded from wear and tear. You have to remember at that time you didn't change clothes on a daily basis, you didn't wash it the extent we do, you didn't get new clothes every month and so on and that was especially among the common people.

Of course one could draw the argument in regards to this issue that it would be a strain on the developers to reflect the reality of the time in TW3 and yes that might be right. But again I think the older material reflected the reality much better than the utopia of "perfection" that the new materiel portrays.

 

[B_l_a_d_y]

5) ... there's nothing unique about the Witcher 3's original art style and its limited colour palette. This has become the go-to option (especially in video games) whenever someone wants to create a wartorn, post-apocalyptic/dystopian, horror or (pseudo)medieval setting since Saving Private Ryan burst onto the scene in 1998. It's the epitome of generic.

those are quite a strong and offensive words. cd project has one of the best artists in gamedev and this is just disrespectful.
Some people like darker games other brighter but this whole hurr witcher is not dark fantasy, you are wrong if you belived so, medieval has false representation in media.

maybe i am wrong but to me many posters try to say that i am wrong for liking darker atmosphere and i should not like it coz reasons above

 

[Scholdarr.452]

those are quite a strong and offensive words.

"Generic" is not offensive. It's just a descriptive term. A generic work isn't per se bad, not at all. It just doesn't look much different from other works in overall tone or design. It lacks uniqueness, not artistic quality.

 

[GuyNwah]

You will get no objection from me in regards to that there's generally a misconception about the middle ages being dark, gray, dull and colorless. It was more colorful that people think.

Where I do object is that there is somehow no middle ground in that discussion and because for example paintings and drawings show a wide variety in colors and dyes then that must have been the reality which is as far from the true as "the dark" age perception. The middle ages is a great interest of mine and I have talked to a few historians on that subject and the truth is that paintings, drawings, poems, and whatnot are far from reality that actually existed - especially the common people which made up the vast majority at that time.

Sure the clothes were more colorful that we think but they was also stained, muddy, torn, stitched back together and most of all they where washed out and faded from wear and tear. You have to remember at that time you didn't change clothes on a daily basis, you didn't wash it the extent we do, you didn't get new clothes every month and so on and that was especially among the common people.

Of course one could draw the argument in regards to this issue that it would be a strain on the developers to reflect the reality of the time in TW3 and yes that might be right. But again I think the older material reflected the reality much better than the utopia of "perfection" that the new materiel portrays.

I agree. One thing the artists who did costumes for TW2 did really well was the townspeople's clothes. Even down to the men working in breeks (hose is hot and scratchy and expensive and restrictive). But I don't think the new art direction looks anything like a utopia or imaginary perfection.

 

[OliverDK]

2) ... the Witcher has never been part of the grim and gritty genre despite submerging itself occassionally into dark territory and grappling with unpleasant themes.

I disagree and it is a bit in conflict what the developers have stated. They believe that the world of the witcher is dark and gritty as latest stated in this interview:
http://exile.is/cd-projekt-red-designer-karolina-kuzia-gives-us-a-taste-of-the-witcher-3/2451

Would you consider your games as western RPGs (i.e. Skyrim and Dragon Age)?
Of course, our game is a lot different than, for example, jRPG’s. It’s after all based on a book series that’s deep-rooted in Slavic mythology. It was pretty important for us to stick to the origins, so there are Slavic elements, but there are also themes familiar to gamers from the USA or western Europe. What makes The Witcher a bit different is the gritty and dark setting, this is something rarely seen in other RPGs.

 

[wichat]

Don't confuse the moral world and the natural world.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I disagree and it is a bit in conflict what the developers have stated. They believe that the world of the witcher is dark and gritty as latest stated in this interview:
http://exile.is/cd-projekt-red-designer-karolina-kuzia-gives-us-a-taste-of-the-witcher-3/2451

Would you consider your games as western RPGs (i.e. Skyrim and Dragon Age)?
Of course, our game is a lot different than, for example, jRPG’s. It’s after all based on a book series that’s deep-rooted in Slavic mythology. It was pretty important for us to stick to the origins, so there are Slavic elements, but there are also themes familiar to gamers from the USA or western Europe. What makes The Witcher a bit different is the gritty and dark setting, this is something rarely seen in other RPGs.

I think there is maybe misunderstanding based on what is really meant with "dark and gritty setting". I think @Tokei-ihto just talked about the looks, the graphical tone (brownish/grey and quite limited color palette, dark sceneries, grain filters) while CDPR talked about the narrative setting. A lot of western RPGs tried to have a dark and gritty look while they were quite little dark and gritty in terms of actual (narrative) content, e.g. Skyrim or even Dragon Age. The extend of "dark" and morally grey content is a lot higher in the Witcher games (and even more so in the books).

 

[Tokei-ihto]

those are quite a strong and offensive words. cd project has one of the best artists in gamedev and this is just disrespectful.
Some people like darker games other brighter but this whole hurr witcher is not dark fantasy, you are wrong if you belived so, medieval has false representation in media.

maybe i am wrong but to me many posters try to say that i am wrong for liking darker atmosphere and i should not like it coz reasons above

I think you misread what I wrote. After all, you missed to highlight the second part of the sentence which should have made it clear that this was not intended as a slight to CDPR's artistry, but the idea that this desaturated, less colorful, grainy look is hardly original. And I added the postscript exactly because I wanted to clarify that I don't think that "you are wrong" for liking that kind of style, just that I personally have problems with some of the accompanying connotations.

And yes, many people have indeed a flawed conception of what medieval times looked like, because contrary to common wisdom the Middle Ages weren't actually that dark. Dark Ages is actually quite a misnomer.

In regards to the dark and gritty quote from CDPR. I think it's a case of misapplying an originally very specific terminology. Again, just because a fictitious world is filled with dark or even gruesome elements - setting-wise as well as in narrative terms - doesn't make it automatically grim and gritty. The problem is that grim and gritty has become a word used to describe basically everything that doesn't fit into the classical high fantasy category.