Timeline Issues

[Kodaemon5924]

I translated the entire Reasons of State timeline for the sake of reference:

***

In his novels and short stories, Andrzej Sapkowski often didn't pay much attention to the exact chronology of events, so the dates below are often only approximations. However, they do offer a cursory look at the history of the witcherverse. They were mostly established according to the seven books, the pen & paper role-playing game Wiedźmin - Gra Wyobraźni (The Witcher - A Game of Imagination) along with its expansions and materials available at www.sapkowki.pl

Distant past
The lands that will one day be roamed by Geralt of Rivia are first settled by gnomes and dwarves.

Later, 1000 years before humans, elves arrive on white ships and wage wars against the dwarves.

Ca. 746
The humans arrive - their First Landing takes place at the mouth of the Yaruga river and the Pontar delta. They begin the brutal conquest of the newly discovered lands, driving away the elves.

1062-1063
The elves, driven away to the east and unaccepting of coexistence with humans; take up arms under the lead of Aelirenn, also known as the White Rose. The insurgents suffer defeat, and there is a massacre of elven youth.

1161-1163
Falka's Rebellion, the largest military cataclysm until the wars with Nilfgaard. Falka, the rejected daughter of king Vridank of Redania, demands her rights and rebels against the nobility, gaining the support of the peasantry. The bloody madness spills out to all lands north of the Yaruga. The rebellion is quelled at the cost of horrible atrocities. Falka herself is burned at the stake.

1166
The adventurer Korin and the sorceress Visenna meet at the fork of the Ina and the Yaruga. Together they defeat the Koschchey that was prowling the Klamat pass (short story The Road of No Return).

1167
Probable birth date of Geralt, the future White Wolf.

1221
Witcher Geralt of Rivia, son of the sorceress Visenna, bloodily disposes of the band led by Renfri, who wanted to terrorize the Arc Coast town of Blaviken. He thus earns the soubriquet "Butcher of Blaviken" (short story The Lesser Evil).

1235
Geralt lifts the curse off Nivellen, who was turned into a beast (short story A Grain of Truth).

1239
Nilfgaard sparks the Northern Wars, invading lands south of the Amell Mountains.

1244
Geralt and Dandelion first meet at a festival in Gulet, then set out to the Valley of Flowers, where they nearly die at the hands of elven guerrillas (short story Ath the Edge of the World). In Rinde, Redania, Geralt meets the sorceress Yennerer and falls in love with her (short story (The Last Wish).

1245
An upheaval in Poviss, king Rhyd is overthrown and the crown returns to the rightful hands of the Thyssenid dynasty. Geralt is in Novigrad at the time (short story Eternal Fire).

1248
King Niedamir unsuccessfully tries to use a dragon hunt in the Kestrel Mountains to seize power over the duchy of Malleore. He is accompanied by Geralt, who, after four years of separation, meets Yennefer once again (short story Limits of the Possible)
In Brebervoord, the White Wolf is hired by prince Agloval to negotiate a bethrothal to the mermaid Sh'eenaz (short story A Little Sacrifice)
In Cintra, Geralt leads to the marriage of Pavetta and the Hedgehog of Erlenwald (short story A Question of Price).

1249
Geralt arrives in Vizima, where he lifts the curse off Princess Adda who was turned into a striga (short story The Witcher). Wounded by the striga, The White Wolf is healed at the Melitele convent in Ellander (short story The Voice of Reason).

Ca. 1250
Geralt and Yennefer stop at the town of Aedd Gynvael and part ways once again (short story A Shard of Ice).

1260
Delegated to Brokilon, Geralt meets the Cintrean princess, Ciri, bound to him by the Law of Surprise (The Sword of Destiny).

1261
The First Nilfgaardian War. The conflict breaks out in the summer, and the whole of Cintra falls into the hands of the invaders - queen Calanthe dies, princess Ciri disappears without a trace. The aggressors are thwarted only in the autumn months, following the second battle of Sodden. The first Nilfgaard-allied non-human guerrilla units appear - the Scoia'tael (Squirrels).

1262
In Malleore, Geralt takes a contract for a Leshy (comic book Reasons of State). In the autumn, Geralt returns south. Near Sodden, he rescues the merchant Yurga, getting wounded in the process. In the merchant's home, he meets Ciri again (short story Something More). He takes her to Kaer Morhen as his adopted daughter, to train her as a witcher (begginning of The Witcher Cycle)

1263
Geralt sends Ciri off to Ellander, where Yennefer begins training the girl to become a sorceress (vol. I of the Cycle)

1264-1265
The Second Nilfgaardian War, also called the Great War. Sparked by a sudden attack by the Empire on lands north of the Yaruga. It coincides with a mage rebellion on the isle of Thanedd, where sorcerers supporting Nilfgaard battle opposing mages. The flame of war engulfs most of the lands north of the Yaruga. Aedirn, Lyria and Rivia among others fall prey to the invaders. The war culminates with Nilfgaard's defeat in the battle of Brenna in the spring of 1265, followed by the Cintrean Peace Treaty. One again, the Empire retreats beyond the Yaruga, keeping Cintra (vol. 2-5 of The Witcher Cycle).

The disappearance of Ciri (on Thanedd) and Geralt's journey south in hopes of finding her (vol. 2-5 of the Witcher Cycle). The Witcher reunites with his adopted daughter, but on their way back, half way through 1265, he is severely wounded during the riots in Rivia and disappears without a trace.

1266 (or 1268 according to Effenberg & Talbot's Encyclopaedia Maxima Mundi published after 1350)
The first and worst outbreak of the blood fever epidemic known as the Red Death or the Catriona Plague.

1268 according to Effenberg & Talbot's Encyclopaedia Maxima Mundi published after 1350.
The official end of the Northern Wars fought by Nilfgaard (presumably, the Empire continued fighting beyond the Cintrean Peace in lands south of the Amell Mountains).

1270
Struck by amnesia, a wounded Geralt arrives at Kaer Morhen (beginning of The Witcher game).

***

 

[vongraudenz]

He arrived in Caer Morhen with amnesia in 1267?

 

[Kodaemon5924]

Blah, error, 1270 of course.

 

[vongraudenz]

Thought so, but you never know with the shifting sands of time.

 

[username_3651914]

Blah, error, 1270 of course.

So what's with all that "Five years after the war" stuff? I mean, has it been 2 years or 5?

 

[Sirnaq]

Hey guys you know that wild hunt can travel in both time and space right? Just remainder, as it goes to timeline it's probably mistake from cdpr.

 

[Kodaemon5924]

So what's with all that "Five years after the war" stuff? I mean, has it been 2 years or 5?

Again: according to this timeline, the Cintrean Peace was signed in 1265, and that's the date the Northern Kingdoms use as the end of the war, but the fighting continued further south until 1268, and that's the date Nilfgaard uses.

 

[Wazhai]

The story of the games begins in 1270 and it is not of any importance whether it was two or five years after the end of the war or whether the war ended in 1265 or 1268. It simply has no effect on the story of the game, so this can be ignored. But there is another thing that can't.

According to the timeline on the main page the events of the first game last for four months. But there is a gap of seven months between the fist assassination attempt on Foltest (end of TW1, SEPTEMBER 1270) and the siege of Castle La Valette (beginning of TW2, APRIL 1271). According to TW2 only a month's time should be between the two - and I find TW2 to be more trustworthy. Hence, TW1 could only begin in November or December 1270 (and I believe it's wintertime in Kaer Mohren during the prologue) - there we go, we've got around five months' time between Geralt being rescued and arriving in Kaer Mohren, and the siege of Castle La Valette. No concrete dates are mentioned in TW1 apart from the year 1270 - November and December 1270 are very much 1270.

Evidently, there doesn't appear to be anything flawed in the continuity of the game lore. After July 25th 1270 (Geralt saves Letho), the time Geralt spent travelling with him could be four to five months, and that seems like a reasonable amount of time for the events before the start of TW1 to occur.

The only issue here is that the timeline on the website is flawed. The start of TW1 should be in November or December, not in May.

In regards to the 1265/1268 issue: as you can see in the picture, 1271 is six years after the war, so they must take 1265 for its end.

The whole story of TW2 actually doesn't make sense because the first assassin was immediately forgotten by writers after prologue. Letho then talk about Auckes, Serret, him (and Geralt too) and never mention that assassin. If you listen to Letho's version of events then you realize that none of it cannot happen. AND Geralt never even asks Letho about him. In place of Geralt I would be VERY curious. AND Geralt doesn't get a line to tell Letho: "All you said is just a Nilfgaardian hogwash!". So, one shouldn't demand perfect logic in computer games if they are more or less consistent.

It is true that he is never mentioned after the prologue. Maybe Letho didn't know that there was an earlier attempt before he was assigned, but Geralt knew so he could've asked him. Very very strange indeed.

 

[kaghal]

Need a cheeky way to troll this out:S

Costin good catch and all but seems to me that you lads are overreacting about a number

 

[zeroarsch]

As much as i love the witcher series, the timeline and continuity issues pisses me of. its like trying to doz of in a comfy, warm bed and a little fly is getting on your nerves by flying around your ear.

wazhai, it is completely important if it is set in 1270 oder 1273 (wether geralt "dies" in 1265 oder 1268) , because of all the things that happen later. one problem in your solution is the last memory of geralt in witcher 2; look at this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsdIaG66r-M at about 4:18 . here is geralt with letho and his THREE companions (must be the other assassin at the end of witcher 1) at solstice 1270... meaning that at the end of december 1270 he is with letho hunting the hunt and at the same time in kaer morhen... doesnt make sense to me.

and the same occurs with the timeline on the frontpage: how is it possible, that an assassin (months before witcher 2) is trying to murder foltest BEFORE letho even got the idea of using the lodge of sorceresses to kill demawend and then foltest. it is plain bullshit.

another thing that dazzles me is the second act of witcher 2. it says (when you play as henselt) 2 days before leaving flotsam the meeting is happening, but then out of a sudden, geralt arives in the middle of the fighting. strange...

i love the witcher, but this is a little bit tricky, what with continuity and all... i hope cd projekt doesn´t include a story in witcher 3 where everything, that has anything to do with this, is traced back to false memories implanted by the wild hunt, or geralt gone too crazy, or geralt has not really experienced the whole games just at death remembered all that happened in the books and mixed it together in a wrong way. or being a puppy all along for the wild hunt, which sends him through time as they please.

i´m very excited about how they are going to end this

 

[Wazhai]

It obviously is set in 1270 because the war ended in 1265 according to the game lore. Also, keep in mind that the games are basically fan fiction that is not completely faithful to the books. For instance, there are other contradictions between the books and the games in regards to Geralt's age - seemingly making him over 100 years old in the games. I don't find that to be such a big problem, but here, CDPR are contradicting themselves.

I hadn't noticed the date in that last memory. Well then, I would assume the lore in TW2 to be more correct than the one in TW1. It's newer and it's not just a wonky timeline on the website. This means that the timeline on the site is way off. If TW1 started in 1270, then the events that transpired between that memory and the game must have taken only a few days. In addition to that, the first game should only last one or two months (if the APRIL 1271 date is correct to begin with).

another thing that dazzles me is the second act of witcher 2. it says (when you play as henselt) 2 days before leaving flotsam the meeting is happening, but then out of a sudden, geralt arives in the middle of the fighting. strange...

I am absolutely sure it says "two days after leaving Flotsam" (not an exact quote).

 

[zeroarsch]

i dont think geralts age is a big problem. witchers, because of the mutations, can get veryyy old. vesemir himself is known to be at least 300 years old.

i checked it with the second act, my fault. maybe i misread that part while playing.

oh man, i´m going to check witcher 1 prologue right now, this confuses and consumes me

 

[Wazhai]

i dont think geralts age is a big problem. witchers, because of the mutations, can get veryyy old. vesemir himself is known to be at least 300 years old.

Actually, it is a general inconsistency with the books, as a result of which the Geralt from the games has to be over 100 years old. It had something to do with Triss' age. She is supposed to be something like 50 years old (IIRC) around 1270 according to the books, but in the games she is said to be in her late twenties to early thirties. If you look hard enough you could find the thread in question on this forum.

 

[Kodaemon5924]

It had something to do with Triss' age. She is supposed to be something like 50 years old (IIRC) around 1270 according to the books, but in the games she is said to be in her late twenties to early thirties.

I'm interested in this, since the only reference to Triss' age in the books that I can remember is that she's "young", which could be rather relative since both witchers and mages are supposed to have lifespans much longer than regular humans. Can't remember anything regarding her age from the games.

 

[Wazhai]

I'm interested in this, since the only reference to Triss' age in the books that I can remember is that she's "young", which could be rather relative since both witchers and mages are supposed to have lifespans much longer than regular humans. Can't remember anything regarding her age from the games.

I managed to dig up the thread (5 second Google search />/> ). It's quite an interesting read:
http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23031-how-old-is-geralt-mild-spoilers-inside/
Disregard what I've said on this matter above, it's probably all wrong, haha, but there was still some kind of inconsistency.

 

[Kodaemon5924]

Thanks. I looked through the thread, nothing really concrete. Looking at the timeline above, Flash probably figured Triss was around 30 by estimating her at around 20 at the time of the second battle of Sodden in 1261 - which is an error, since we know she was already friends with Yennefer before 1244 (which is likely what Guy was alluding to).

Also:

- Sapkowski was being vague as hell with the "over 50" thing for Geralt. Chances are, he didn't remember. As mentioned, he does not pay all that much attention to world details. He's more of a character/story writer than a worldbuilder.

- Korin being Geralt's father is something that ONLY came up in the Parowski/Polch comic books - not a good source, that. Visenna is confirmed as Geralt's mother, Korin is not confirmed to be his father. Hence the "probable birth date" for Geralt.

- it's important to remember Road of No Return was retconned by Sapkowski into being a Witcher prequel, hence the discrepancies with the Vran still being around etc. It works, but only barely.

 

[zeroarsch]

I think we shouldn´t compare the timeline of the books to the timeline of the games. both are created by different people and the games are in my opinion only an interpretation of the books. a very good one, i have to point out.

one interpretation of the timeline events could be, that geralt remembers, but is confused and can´t really rely on the dates. maybe this is why the first memory is narrated by roche(?) or someone who sounds just like him, when the rest of the memories is narrated by geralt himself. in this case, the first memory can be seen as fact, as it is told from a different perspective(character) than the main protagonist and the rest is merely geralts own subjective point-of-view filled with flaws in concern of time.

nonetheless, as far as i am concerned, the timeline is as follows:

1265 - the war is over, but it leaves political/social chaos, bandits, scoia´tael
sept.1268 - geralt dies
1268 - dec.1270 - geralt pursues the wild hunt, which takes his soul as a tool of death and frees yennefer
end of 1270 - witcher 1 begins
march/april 1271 - end of witcher 1
april/may 1271 - witcher 2 begins

i played through the epilogue of witcher 1 again and a little bit of act 1, but i couldn´t find any hint, that it is winter or something, but meh.

i think i play witcher 2 again />

 

[Wazhai]

The games still contradict the timeline on the main page and this is CDPR contradicting themselves, not the books. We have no official word on this. Is the timeline going to be corrected? Has anyone taken this up to them?

 

[zeroarsch]

Yeah, someone should do that.

 

[Charza]

Thanks Kadeamon for clearing up the things concerning "The Great War".
The timeline you placed here including all of the sources actually make a lot of sense.

However, the Witcher 2 contradicts one thing, and that is Geralts fatal accident in Rivia.
According to the flashback in the prologue, Geralt was stabbed to death in Rivia in september of the year 1268.
As Yennefer tried to safe Geralt she dies herself and Ciri takes the bodies away.

Now I've not read all of the books, since not all of them are translated. But is the pogrom in Rivia which is described in Witcher 2 also the event where Geralt goes missing in your stated timeline ? Or is this mysterious event something different ?
If it's the same event, there is a difference of 3 years.

And Wazhai, I completely agree that Geralts arrival in 1270 must be in late autumn/early winter time.
This fits much better with the established story in The Witcher 2.