TW2 is the greatest story-based RPG I've ever played.

+
I don't like getting particular about Tolkien's work to that extent because that's not my style of experiencing it, but I can understand why someone would care about the wings of the Balrog or the names of the various "characters" from here or there. I like to think that the naming of the Nine is murky on purpose, to reflect dishonoring the fell kings who turned against their own, or the passage from history of those who fell from Grace; only the most notorious were worth remembering.

Also, these histories are about the West of Middle Earth, and it was not the concern of the historians and storytellers of this realm to care about the intricacies of the realms of others.

The origin of orcs is an interesting point, though. We actually get too much information in this case as opposed to too little; see this wiki. I don't think Tolkien was being wishy-washy because his thought process regarding such things was quite meticulous, which is why, ironically, we have this problem with the origin of the orcs.

If you read his Letters, you can become better acquainted with his thought process, and perhaps it might also encourage you to see the histories with a clearer perspective.

I recommend getting Histories of Middle Earth vol. 1-5 because I think you might enjoy the level of detail they present, and also because they're available for cheap. But my earnest recommendation is to read the Letters, assuming you haven't done so already :)

And if we put stock in Tolkien's work, then these are not "alternative histories", but those of the distant past of our world :D

Regarding the Witcher universe, I am not sure if it's supposed to be set in our's or in a different one.
 
Mataresa said:
I am sorry, that this post turned out so long and I thought about splitting it into different topics. Somehow my mind just went floating around and saying all the things I wanted to say on this forum for a long time:

For me the greatest is still The Witcher 1. It was the first RPG I ever played and it had a lasting impression on me. I felt so immersed and was moved by everything when I first played it in 2009. I remember how I was scared to go outside at night in the outskirts. The dread of going into caves on my own. The loneliness in the open fields and the separation from everybody else in Wyzima. I felt like a Witcher. I was a monster hunter. I needed to be alert to save my life from those creatures, but yet I knew, it was on me to kill them. My purpose and my duty. I was an outcast, disconnected from society. I wasn't one of them. I felt alone often walking through the streets. People would talk to me, when they needed me, but keep their distance otherwise. I had friends I could rely on and people I trusted, companions and people I cared about. I remember the dirty and grimy city, which wasn't beautiful or inviting. People were living here, but I felt the dark times. I crept through the sewers fending of beasts hiding there. Not because I wanted to be there, but because I had to. I saw every human evil imaginable: murder, treachery, cannibalism, rape, incest, hate. Some women gave me their bodies, cause they were attracted to my strength and me being different and exotic. But few of them actually cared, who I was and I wouldn't be just an adventure to them. I remember the music, that raised every hair on my body. The sounds that made me listen up in anticipation of danger and shiver in excitement. The atmosphere was just so perfect, that I will never forget it.

I must admit that The Witcher 2 disappointed me a bit in that regard. I was stunned by the beautiful visuals (although I was only ever able to play on minimum settings on my laptop), but I was missing the darkness, the loneliness and emptiness, I felt in the first game. There I felt like an outcast, a remnant not belonging in this world, an exotic creature, sometimes handy, but not part of society. In the second game I was someone with a purpose, people respected me and valued my opinion, the world was beautiful and although there were many problems and horrible things, I never felt the despair and utter uselessness of my existance. I didn't feel like a witcher, that had his days. I felt like I was in the prime of my life and I could change something. I felt important. For me the second game wasn't dark enough.

Planescape Torment will be one of those games, I will probably never play, because I can't motivate myself to it. I might have enjoyed it back in the day, I don't know, but it is hard to start it now. I can't describe why. I am originally an RTS player and grew up with The Settlers 2, 3, 4 and Age of Empires 2, later on I played StarCraft 1 and 2, when 2 came out and also expanded my interest to point and click adventures, like Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Edna Escapes, Harvey's New Eyes or Deponia. So I never had problems going back to older games, but somehow it hasn't teased me yet enough, to try it.

Recently I stumbled on this discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PtFlcZome4&feature=g-user-lik
And they were talking about storytelling in games. And the host reflected my attitude (and I think many of the forum members) fairly well in being quite critical on how stories are presented in current generation games. But I was very disappointed, when he hadn't even played The Witcher and couldn't see an exception to this. I am not a big fan of The Elder Scrolls (especially Skyrim) or Mass Effect. To me the world always seemed bland. I enjoyed watching Shepherds story as a Let's Play, but I didn't care about the characters, I didn't feel immersed, it was light entertainment to me. There were no heavy decisions, no particular emotions or realism involved in the story. I knew, I was for some weird reason, the invincible Shepherd and although I only had one gun and a ship, I would eventually kill everything and I couldn't fail. To me the struggle and the personal suffering, the doubt and the failure of the protagonist was always most appealing. And although I prefer stories, where the character is not the centre of the world, even super heroes are most engaging, when they struggle and fail. I love the new Batman movies, because he is constantly fighting himself and the world, he is not perfect, but he is the one with the will to go on. The new trailer of iron man moved me more than all the other movies about him, when his armour gets destroyed and he falls. Spiderman is his best, when he has to give up his love, to protect her. Snape is one of the best written characters in the books, because of what he has to become to do what is right and what he has lost. "And why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up."

From the interview, I decided to take a look at Dear Esther (Journey is the next on my list). I am regularly watching TotalBiscuit, because I like his critical thinking and comments about the gaming world and how many things are dumbed down and bad business practices like drm and micro transactions. He once said, he thinks it is a highly overrated game. But my breath was taken away by it. It has beautiful graphics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z36mjGakFEg
(realism!), where the world feels at first broken and later magical. It has perfect world-literature writing. And the most important thing is the atmosphere. I was there. I walked the paths, I discovered the world, I was the protagonist. It was like reading a book and then seeing it in my head. It was simply perfect. I never thought anything could do that, but it instantly became the best game of all time for me. It moved me on such a deep level and connected to me, how I thought only my fantasy or maybe good books could. The story was so personal and intimate.

I am a nut for lore and details in a fictional world. One of my passions is Lord of the Rings and although not everything is perfect in the stories, what really fascinates me is the detail of the world, the relations and connections between everything, how events in the past, influence the present. That is one of the things why I love The Witcher and especially the books, the world feels realistic, because it has background. And although we don't know everything (same in LotR), there is universe we are in. The same goes for A Song of Ice and Fire and the Coldfire series (I think it was never translated from German and even there it is hard to get all the books, but I think it would make a great background for another CD Project RPG http://www.welt-der-fantasy.de/serie.php?serientitel=Die%20Kaltfeuer-Saga). These worlds are complex and interconnected. Everything seems to have evolved and even in its own ruleset it feels real.

Witcher was your first RPG? Young player?

If you like real RPG experience, amazing atmosphere and story you must play Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines.
 
Ancient76 said:
Witcher was your first RPG? Young player?

If you like real RPG experience, amazing atmosphere and story you must play Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines.

Actually 24. I just always played RTS mostly. It is only in the last couple of years, that I got interested in RPGs. I heard good things about Vampire and I am planning on playing it as I like the pen and paper version.
 
cmdrflashheart said:
I don't like getting particular about Tolkien's work to that extent because that's not my style of experiencing it, but I can understand why someone would care about the wings of the Balrog or the names of the various "characters" from here or there. I like to think that the naming of the Nine is murky on purpose, to reflect dishonoring the fell kings who turned against their own, or the passage from history of those who fell from Grace; only the most notorious were worth remembering.

Also, these histories are about the West of Middle Earth, and it was not the concern of the historians and storytellers of this realm to care about the intricacies of the realms of others.

The origin of orcs is an interesting point, though. We actually get too much information in this case as opposed to too little; see this wiki. I don't think Tolkien was being wishy-washy because his thought process regarding such things was quite meticulous, which is why, ironically, we have this problem with the origin of the orcs.

If you read his Letters, you can become better acquainted with his thought process, and perhaps it might also encourage you to see the histories with a clearer perspective.

I recommend getting Histories of Middle Earth vol. 1-5 because I think you might enjoy the level of detail they present, and also because they're available for cheap. But my earnest recommendation is to read the Letters, assuming you haven't done so already :)/>

And if we put stock in Tolkien's work, then these are not "alternative histories", but those of the distant past of our world :D/>

Regarding the Witcher universe, I am not sure if it's supposed to be set in our's or in a different one.

I agree 100% with you and you said exactly what i meant. :) I guess, I have just a special interest in some of the details. The Histories are on my list, so far I haven't bought them for some unknown reason, although I read LotR, The Hobbit, Silmarillion and The Children of Húrin plenty of times both in English and German.
 
Mataresa said:
Actually 24. I just always played RTS mostly. It is only in the last couple of years, that I got interested in RPGs. I heard good things about Vampire and I am planning on playing it as I like the pen and paper version.

:rolleyes:/>/>

Mod: Let's not propose any form of illigal download please

You need also official 1.2 patch, and unofficial 8.5.1 patch. Here you can find both:

http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php

Game is from November 2004 so don't expect great graphics and animations, but it still looks great.
 
Ancient76 said:
:rolleyes:/>/>

MOD: read above

You need also official 1.2 patch, and unofficial 8.5.1 patch. Here you can find both:

http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php

Game is from November 2004 so don't expect great graphics and animations, but it still looks great.

Damn you! I should work and not play games now. :)/> No seriously thanks for the link. I am not too bothered about graphics, I still play Age of Empires, The Settlers 2, Empire Earth 1, StarCraft 1 and the likes from time to time. So graphics is not the issue. :)/>
 
Mataresa said:
Damn you! I should work and not play games now. :)/> No seriously thanks for the link. I am not too bothered about graphics, I still play Age of Empires, The Settlers 2, Empire Earth 1, StarCraft 1 and the likes from time to time. So graphics is not the issue. :)/>

No, you should work and play good games :)

Btw, during installation of unofficial 8.5.1 patch choose Basic Edition because it fixes only bugs.

I would like to be on your place now. Playing this game for the first time!
 
I recommend getting Histories of Middle Earth vol. 1-5 because I think you might enjoy the level of detail they present, and also because they're available for cheap. But my earnest recommendation is to read the Letters, assuming you haven't done so already

If there is a used bookstore near you, these always find a way of making an appearance. There just isn't enough Tolkien-Talk around here.

I'll second the Letter recommendation. They're a great anytime read, from sitting down and turning page after page, to having a go during the commercial breaks.
 
Well I don't mind, if you open a Tolkien topic. I will happily discuss everything with you. I have a friend that partially studies Tolkien at university, and I envy her, for being able to do so. :) Sadly my Hungarian isn't good enough to join those lectures. :(
 
Ancient76 said:
If you like real RPG experience, amazing atmosphere and story you must play Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines.
This. It's such a gem of a game if you can excuse the clunky combat and the numerous bugs. I was very much hoping that CDPR would do a Masquerade game after TW2, but then they announced Cyberpunk and TW3. Oh well, there's always hope.
 
Duskey said:
This. It's such a gem of a game if you can excuse the clunky combat and the numerous bugs. I was very much hoping that CDPR would do a Masquerade game after TW2, but then they announced Cyberpunk and TW3. Oh well, there's always hope.
WoD franchise does belong to another an they were already working on a new WoD game before the development arrested. Now it's still stuck it seems.

To be honestely, I'm clinged with all my hope that CP77 will be in Bloodlines style *pleaseplease*
 
Yeah Torment is the best story cRPG ever and it is very unfair to compare the Witcher series to it , i bet CDPR people share the same feeling .

Overall RPG experience i'd say Arcanum gave me the best with the first Witcher a close second and i say the first because it was such a cultural shock landing on my PC out of thin air and captivating me, second instalment was good too but a bit large in scope and usually such large games kind of scare me ( Nethack player here :p ) .

I put Witcher 2 in the same level with Bloodlines (although VtM:Redemption had way better story)because after hours of game play and having kill tens of monsters it gives you the rare feeling that your character is the monster and you are controlling him into doing monstrous things .
 
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. To most of our critics, thanks and you are welcome :)
 
Mod: Let's not propose any form of illigal download please

You can DOWNLOAD this game from Steam, for example!

Moderators!?

Duskey said:
This. It's such a gem of a game if you can excuse the clunky combat and the numerous bugs. I was very much hoping that CDPR would do a Masquerade game after TW2, but then they announced Cyberpunk and TW3. Oh well, there's always hope.

To talk about VTMB and bugs today makes no sense.

Bugs are fixed with unofficial patch.
 
KnightofPhoenix said:
Bloodlines is overrated. TW2 is better in almost every level.

Overrated!? He He!

You are probably young player?

Even after almost 10 years people are making mods for this game!

For me Bloodlines is in top 5. TW2 isn't.

Here is a recent VTMB thread on Bethesda forum:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1450120-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines/

And one comment:

Asking if I only like the game would be like asking me if I am human. I adore the game! I can play as an insane vampire, a sexy vampire, an ugly recluse vampire, a cop killing one, and even a magic using one. I would preach the word of how awesome this underrated gem of a game is.
 
Ancient76 said:
You are probably young player?

And how is that remotely relevant?

Yea, it's overrated. A good game with a good story, but nothing like the complexity, maturity and pertinence of TW2's story.

Its handling of the political situation, while decent, is a joke compared to TW2. Its factions dynamic doesn't come close to TW2. While it has a few good NPCs (thinking of Max Strous primarily), it doesn't come close to TW2's cast.
TW2's CnC destroys Bloodlines'.

Bloodlines shines with the vampire bloodline you choose and the impact it has on your dialogue options (your character however is still an op lap dog). But other than that, it's good but nothing special.
 
Ancient76 said:
Overrated!? He He!

You are probably young player?

Even after almost 10 years people are making mods for this game!

For me Bloodlines is in top 5. TW2 isn't.

Here is a recent VTMB thread on Bethesda forum:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1450120-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines/

And one comment:

Im afraid i need to agree. VTMB is far better RPG than witcher games from rpg standpoint. It's textbook example how to transfer p&p rpg into story driven aRPG, hope CDPR take a notes from it while making cyberpunk. On the other hand purely from story perspective (that means c&c and story in general) tw games wins.
rpg: VTMB>PS:T>TW
story: PS:T>TW>VTMB
combat: TW2>VTMB>PS:T>TW1
 
The one thing that really annoyed me about Bloodlines was the quest structure. "Do this for me, and you can meet this guy, who will tell you to do something else in exchange for finding another guy". That was literally the whole game.

This is probably the only element of Bloodlines where i disagree on the praise. The story to me was extremely bland, and honestly the only thing that kept me interested was the atmosphere and the characters. It was an enjoyable game, particularly the first 3rd of the game, but it certainly can't compare to TW2 imo.
 
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