What weapons do you want to see in the game?

[wisdom000]

So they have rail guns that don't work like rail guns and are outperformed by a 50 cal? So it's not a rail gun?

It's still a rail gun, it;s just that a man portable railgun isn't going to be all that useful, its going to be insanely expensive, and pretty much military only.

It still has a ridiculous range, and can still cut through armor like butter... but there are more conventional guns, that are cheaper, reload much much faster, fire more than once every 20 seconds, and even some that punch harder, and that you don' have to lug around a battery pack and a gyro stabilzer to use.

so, by 2077 the tech should be refined enough for mass production? Maybe even replacing the 50 cal sniper for something more powerful.

No.... it really shouldn't. The level of tech is important for a cyberpunk game, and that level of tech would take it out of the cyberpunk and into a future more advanced, losing the gritty feeling of cyberpunk....

Really stuff like this shouldn't even be seen in the video game, except perhaps as an unlockable "close to the end" super weapon... and even then its a bit much.

In the end it's just too goofy...

Mounted on a tank or something, ok.... guys running around with em, trying to shoot people with them.... kinda dumb...

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

The level of tech is important for a cyberpunk game, and that level of tech would take it out of the cyberpunk and into a future more advanced, losing the gritty feeling of cyberpunk....

Really stuff like this shouldn't even be seen in the video game, except perhaps as an unlockable "close to the end" super weapon... and even then its a bit much.

In the end it's just too goofy...

Mounted on a tank or something, ok.... guys running around with em, trying to shoot people with them.... kinda dumb...

Now this I think is more of a matter of perspective. Tech is important. But you could still have Cyberpunk in a time when everyone has lasers and flying cars. It's about 'how' the tech is used and the people.

For me, Cyberpunk is more about the 'class divide' and how tech has enhanced it, making it more obvious.
In 2020, most people eat 'kibble', a dried food substitute that looks like dry dogfood, while only the wealthiest people eat fresh food. They also get around in flying cars and live in penthouses full of real wood furniture. meanwhile, the regular Joe is lucky to have a bed for the night in his plastic life. Also, while the regular Joe may be living on a knife edge as he could be killed at any time, the big shots aren't safe either. They can be killed by all sorts of means, and the more wealth and power they have, the more people are willing to do to kill them...

Now that is Cyberpunk.

 

[wisdom000]

lasers as common weapons might fit in a setting that is otherwise classified as "cyberpunk" but they do no fit as common weapons in Cyberpunk 2020, and the video game should try and stay as close to the world and feel of cyberpunk 2020 as possible. We have seen what happens when they try and stray too far from that... and it has not worked out well.

 

[dethfuk]

I was always a big fan of the magnum. Atm the .500 Magnum is the bad boy, I can just imagine the Magnums of the future. I like the idea of pimping out my mag and in dxhr they had a cool one. I spend my upgrades always on my Magnum first. Here are some pics that I think should be a good base weapon to start on for the Magnums concept ideas.
View attachment 988View attachment 989View attachment 990View attachment 991View attachment 992

Hopefully the Magnums in CP2077 have serious punch and stopping power, I want to see organic matter explode from targets.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

lasers as common weapons might fit in a setting that is otherwise classified as "cyberpunk" but they do no fit as common weapons in Cyberpunk 2020, and the video game should try and stay as close to the world and feel of cyberpunk 2020 as possible. We have seen what happens when they try and stray too far from that... and it has not worked out well.

Now this is where our opinions diverge.

It's not 2020 they are making, it's 2077. Even if the super virus hits and almost all knowledge stored digitally is destroyed, (along with the paper plague wiping out almost every book in existance,) we would recover after a couple of decades. There would still be isolated pockets of data and we would replace much of what we had lost in a few years. A new computer network would need to be created. A brand new net, one that was not compatable with its predecessor at all, to prevent cross contamination. Whole new forms of data storage and transferal. But we would move on.

So, we have 53 years between the events of the fourth corp war and the time the new game is set in. Lets say it takes 23 years to get back to where we were in 2020. that give 30 years of technological progress to advance our tech and society. (This is what I believe Mike was refering to in the video where he talks about 'tropes'.) Cyber is not new any more. We are looking at the 3rd or 4th generation of people who are cyborgs. That is like your great gandfather having a bionic arm.

Lets take phones as an example:
30 years ago, the very first 'cellular phone' went public.

What resemblance does this marvel of engineering bear to todays smartphones, which are used by the majority of the western world?

There will be progress. If they were going to make a game closer to 2020's technological state, they would have made 2047 or something similar.

 

[Decatonkeil]

I think I've discovered ChrisWebb2020's identity! It's either Naomi Campbell or Russell Crowe! Why else put telephones in the weapons thread?

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I think I've discovered ChrisWebb2020's identity! It's either Naomi Campbell or Russell Crowe! Why else put telephones in the weapons thread?

Nah dawg. I iz Snoops, SHIZZLE!!!
[video=youtube;HNUrkG-H6z0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNUrkG-H6z0[/video]

 

[prosociety]

Guns guns guns:

I agree with previous posts that basically all guns should be included. Though I understand that will probably not be achievable. However, things I would like to see:

1. Rarity - if a gun is rare, it should be hard to get, and some cannot be bought with loads of cash, but have to be obtained by building up a network of shady contacts.
2. Reliability - I know it's the future, but I want to see the guns able to lock up, damage less, or break down depending on a few factors. 1- place of origin, is it second-hand or straight of the production line, bought through a fixer etc? 2. Style of play - if you over or under use a weapon, it's performance can be affected. 3. Uplink quality, the damage and accuracy can be improved via a neural uplink, which should have some risk involved. 4. Customizable - I'd rather have fewer guns and greater combinations, then all the guns and no prospect of upgrading them.

Though saying that, if I don't see the anti matter rifle (requiring heel spikes to fire) then I'll be very sad.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well, Chris, Mike indicated that post-rebuilding, the tech would have moved little if at all. CDPR ha said they will do -some- tech upgrades, but are keeping the 2020 guidelines with Mike's help.

You -can- have Cyberpunk with lasers and flying cars, sure. But is it the rainy-streets, coughing-from-fear, fumbling for your last two rounds as you hear synthoil drip from your black market cyberarm, that Cyberpunk 2020 delivers so well on?

Part of what Wisdom and, I guess, I fear is the tech/power creep found in the Chromebooks and other supplements. And not just us, a lot of people that saw Blade Runner or read Neuromancer, picked up CP2020 and fell in love. The RPG, like most if not all RPGs, fell victim to splatterbook creep. In order to interest players, they offered brighter and newer toys. You know this, of course, and may have lamented it in your game.

When you start playing CP2020, you have 10,000 eb IF you Sell Out, much less if you don't, for Gear and Cyber. Skinweave is a BIg investment. So's an arm or smartlink or a good Deck. Handguns are dangerous and Kerenzikov Lvl 2 rocks your world.

Now jump to Chrome 3 or 4. REF 15 full-conversion Borg. With fecking gatling guns for arms. 30mm DPU-firing super-rifles. TWO hearts, in case you take a critical to one. Anti-plague nanotech. Lifesaver Skinweave. Techtronica energy weapons. Powered Armour.

All of those things are fine, but they jump things up from the Street a fair bit. And they really dilute the Edge of the game. It feels much less like it could happen tomorrow.

So it's a pretty slippery slope. I understand the new Chrome won't have as many fancy super-toys as it will fashion and gear-toys. This relieves me. I'm all for more flavour and forward movement, but keep it Street as much as possible.

 

[dethfuk]

did someone say anti matter gun? that would wipe out the planet, way too much tech.

 

[Sardukhar]

Grin.

The Militech AM-3 Anti-Matter Rifle fires a 30mm slug of depleted uranium. Until nerfed for no good reason in the Blackhand's Weapons Guide, it was probably the most effective way to engage an armoured target at 800m and up.

They call it the "AntiMatter Rifle" for PR reasons. Also because, to quote Axeman, "You can knock the frakkin Starship Enterprise out of orbit."

 

[username_3670977]

There is a problem with that thinking, first of its not near future it's 2077, second if the guy does not want tech to progress why make it 2077 and not 2020, which is near future. Basically this will be the last cyberpunk game, they will have no excuses when the year is 2177 and the tech still hasn't changed, he is basically promoting stagnation.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Well, Chris, Mike indicated that post-rebuilding, the tech would have moved little if at all. CDPR ha said they will do -some- tech upgrades, but are keeping the 2020 guidelines with Mike's help.

You -can- have Cyberpunk with lasers and flying cars, sure. But is it the rainy-streets, coughing-from-fear, fumbling for your last two rounds as you hear synthoil drip from your black market cyberarm, that Cyberpunk 2020 delivers so well on?

Part of what Wisdom and, I guess, I fear is the tech/power creep found in the Chromebooks and other supplements. And not just us, a lot of people that saw Blade Runner or read Neuromancer, picked up CP2020 and fell in love. The RPG, like most if not all RPGs, fell victim to splatterbook creep. In order to interest players, they offered brighter and newer toys. You know this, of course, and may have lamented it in your game.

When you start playing CP2020, you have 10,000 eb IF you Sell Out, much less if you don't, for Gear and Cyber. Skinweave is a BIg investment. So's an arm or smartlink or a good Deck. Handguns are dangerous and Kerenzikov Lvl 2 rocks your world.

Now jump to Chrome 3 or 4. REF 15 full-conversion Borg. With fecking gatling guns for arms. 30mm DPU-firing super-rifles. TWO hearts, in case you take a critical to one. Anti-plague nanotech. Lifesaver Skinweave. Techtronica energy weapons. Powered Armour.

All of those things are fine, but they jump things up from the Street a fair bit. And they really dilute the Edge of the game. It feels much less like it could happen tomorrow.

So it's a pretty slippery slope. I understand the new Chrome won't have as many fancy super-toys as it will fashion and gear-toys. This relieves me. I'm all for more flavour and forward movement, but keep it Street as much as possible.

I always found that the 'edge' was easily provided by a decent GM, no matter what shiny toy a player was given. You just need to give the enemy even nastier toys.

I like different paces to game. I am writing a merc campaign atm, to play over skype. The players don't have to buy a single thing, it's all issued to them care of their employer. I am looking at putting in some ACPA, though it will be SP25 and STR20, basically metalgear on a frame. I also have had lots of fun playing 'rat tunner inc', where all the players start with only 30 skill point instead of the usual 40 and 40 points in stats. The most dangerous weapon we normally got was a sawn off shotgun or a rusty uzi. Oh, and body armour was a pipe dream...

I think it all comes down to what you want from the game.

Mike didnt specifically say that technology wasn't going to advance. he said that it would be the same, but refined. Much like the comparisson thatw as made earlier in the thread with the M2 Browning .50 calibre machine gun. The basic design is the same as it was back in 1933. That weapon is just as deadly today as it was 80 years ago. But, while its basic design is the same, it has been refined. better machining, higher quality materials, precision engineered parts and lots of other little tweeks and changes. he also said not to expect everything to be high tech, and I don't. I don't expect 'much' to change in 2077, but I do hope to see 'some' things that have radically advanced while others have moved at a snails pace, (if not backwards...)

As long as it all remains in the realm of plausibility, obviously.

 

[i-Lo]

I want something in the way of Bow. An articulated one with variable string tension (akin to Crysis 3) and looks to boot. Thief shows this off well:

 

[dethfuk]

I want something in the way of Bow.

Have you played or checked out the bow in Blood Dragon?

 

[username_3670977]

Well if there will be no gauss canons or rail guns, atleast give me a 20mm sniper canon for my full borg

 

[Sardukhar]

There are 20mm sniper cannons in-game. Whether you can be a full-borg is another question entirely. That's very rare and very, very expensive. You start the PnP game with a few thousand and can Sell Out for 10,000 more. A top-ranked Solo, professional mercenary, earns 10,000 eb per month, gross pay. From that they pay living expense, medical, weapons, etc. That 20mm cannon, the good one, will run you about 4-6,000 eb on the black market.

FCBs start at 40,000 for the base package, before improvements. The combat model is 120,000 eb. That's not counting the exorbitant Humanity cost - many people do not qualify for conversion if their Empathy is too low, because their psyche cannot handle the change. You can get a higher Empathy of course, either during character creation or through therapy. Expensive therapy.

Different variations and play style of Cyberpunk are of course totally possible, Chris. But the "good GM" argument has never really convinced me. Not because it's inaccurate or implausible, just because you shouldn't need a good GM to create the theme the game sets. The cyberpunk edge should be present no matter who is running.

The Twilight 200 variant you are running sounds like fun and of course, we've played it. Also Corps and Fixers, Cops and Gangers, etc. I

I've no doubt your game will be very Cyberpunk.

But for cyberpunk 2077, so many people will see this for the first time. it will be formative and sequel/expansion-determining. It might be the only time we get to play in our favourite game world on our computers, if something bad happens, like a nuclear apocalypse right after.

So I really really hope CDPR sticks as closely as possible to the 2020 standard we all learned to love and attracted us in the first place. With the Lifepath, post 20th Century firearms, crazy but not too superhuman cyberware and high-fashion contrasts. The trailer is a good sign they are doing just that.

As the game nears and different people want more and more from it, we're going to get more insecure that they might be departing from this beloved formula. Forgive us in advance.

 

[wisdom000]

There is a problem with that thinking, first of its not near future it's 2077, second if the guy does not want tech to progress why make it 2077 and not 2020, which is near future. Basically this will be the last cyberpunk game, they will have no excuses when the year is 2177 and the tech still hasn't changed, he is basically promoting stagnation.

There are several reasons for this. The first of which is plausibility. Cyberpunk 2020 was written in 1989. It's timeline starts in 1990, and that gave a 30 year glimpse into the future. However, it's now 2013. The game won't be coming out till at least 2015. Setting it 5 years from that would be kind of ridiculous, especially to people new to the franchise who wouldn't understand that the game takes place in an alternate reality with the point of divergence being 20 years ago. It's still something they will have issues with, but by setting the game in 2077, they mitigate some of the problems. I would have gone for 2050, and rebooted the whole timeline myself, and in fact offered to do so to R.Talsorian, but this is the route they decided to go.

The second reason to do this is to give the more advanced tech, such as cyberlimbs, legacy, a sense of history.... so it's not just all brand new shit, and there is a reason why there are as many makes and models of a cyberlimb as their are for cars.

However, to keep all the tech at roughly the same level as 2020, they have already stated that after the 4rth corporate war there will be a complete collapse of society and technology, as pretty much every computer connected to the net becomes hopeless corrupted. Economies are ruined, manufactuiring and industry grind to a halt.... in our world everything is automated, the effects of such a thing would be devastating. moving the timeline to 2077 allows this not only to happen, but for the world to recover enough that we are pretty much back to where we were.

Thirdly, they simply are not going to be able to come up with a name as catchy as Cyberpunk 2020, not sure why 2077 was chosen over 2050 or whatever, but it works.

And lastly, think about movies like aliens, or outland... or even Firefly or cowboy bebop... sure some measures of tech have advanced, space travel exists (in the case of firefly or cowboy bebop, the space travel is the worst part of the show, completely unrealistic), but people are still using slug throwers in all of them... because that's what works. And because of those guns, the feeling is much more gritty, much more familiar. You know how it works, it's something you can identify with. Advanced but familiar, a tomorrow we won;t feel lost in, that is what cyberpunk is all about.

Lastly, lasers are just cheesy, they belong in far advanced space opera and awful 50 and 60's sci-fi. They can be done right in a cyberpunk setting, but not as a common weapon... think Akira, not buck rogers.

 

[dethfuk]

I remember a gun from a game that was so cool for its time, it had a second function..you could throw it at the wall or ceiling or wherever you desired and the gun would stick to the surface of the wall and then transform into a motion detecting sentry gun.

Any of you old enough to remember which gun I'm talking about?

[video=youtube;Wmip6rWHu-U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmip6rWHu-U[/video]

Thats right, the awesome Laptop gun from Rares Perfect Dark on the N64. Considered a submachine gun, Perfect Dark‘s Laptop Gun was really a sentry gun disguised as a laptop. The best part of this weapon was the player’s ability to deploy it as a turret on nearly any surface, wreaking havoc on anyone that came near it.

I would love the Laptop gun in Cyberpunk 2077, it fully fits in and would be a instant hit. Especially in mp pvp.

View attachment 1005View attachment 1006View attachment 1007

 

[username_3670977]

I agree with you that a lower timeline would have been better and more in line with their ideals, say 2040would be better. Now I can't agree with you in the sci fi thing, I se the future like in the culture, xeelee and foundation series, these are futures with technologies that are advancing faster than our biological states and we merge with technology and our AI to form something greater. But everything is subjective or based on ideals.