Why did you kill stealth netrunning?

[ToreadorVampire]

I've now leveled my V (stealth netrunner) to 24. About half my quickhacks are tier 3 but I've got a few tier 4 ones now, along with a T4 deck (nothing special, just been upgrading my starting one through crafting). I just picked up my first ultimate QH which is detonate grenade. I chose that one because detonating explosive canisters is dirt cheap and offers a massive cost reduction on detonate grenade.

I've had access to the Sonic Shock + [Short Circuit/Overheat] combo for quite a while now. SS T3+ means that subsequent quickhacks upon the affected victim are not traced. A single Short Circuit quickhack kills all rank-and-file enemies in one go. I need two of them to neutralise a double-or-triple HP elite enemy. Cyberpsychos take four of five of them before they fall over, but I typically soften them up with a couple of stacks of Cyberware Malfunction first.

I don't always resort to stealth anymore though. If I come across a group of four or fewer enemies and they have no elites amongst them I'll just launch a couple of contagion quickhacks into the middle of them then step behind cover. They never survive long enough to get line of sight, let alone counter attack.

I'm looking at some of the ultimate QHs and their RAM cost reductions for doing other things first. Most of them are out of my grasp right now but I can see that the intent is that you use them as "finishers". They get cheaper if you've used other QHs already.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that I'm breezing through enemies at the moment and haven't taken a scrap of damage which wasn't overclock-inflicted in about 10h of gameplay (I'm about 35h into this playthrough). I'm almost never detected either, especially if I can wipe enemies out via hijacked security cameras. If I am detected it's only for a few seconds whilst the enemies succumb to contagion damage.

Stealth netrunning is very much alive and well in 2.0. Sure, at low levels you need to supplement it with something else (I recommend thrown knives). Once you're level 20+, you probably can probably toss all of your other weapons.

 

[warbaby2]

My V is a successful stealth netrunner because I take care of my position in case I am traced. I'm either (ideally) unreachable because I climbed/jumped to a position that's inaccessible to anyone who can't power jump. Or, I've got plenty of hard obstacles between me and the backup who'll be coming for me. There, ideally something which will bottleneck them into coming at me single-file so I can gun them down with Lizzie as they approach.

So you are heleriously OP with added steps, by using the game's level and AI design flaws... yea, that means the 2.0 changes were useless.

 

[zacadoo]

I'm so mad about this tracing BS. There's one enemy, all the others are far away. I nuke him with Synapse Burnout, and I get traced. BY FUCKING WHO? This makes absolutely zero sense, even in universe. I hack someone from stealth, no one noticing it, so who can trace me back? Also, why can't I interrupt this? You could at least make a counter attack possible, like before. Or the mod that interrupted the tracing. You killed stealth netrunning completely by forcing me constantly into battles I don't want to have or playing a style I don't want to play. Thanks for nothing.

I've been using covert hacks with throwing knives together and it's pretty good actually. Grab all the stealth cyberware and it's even better. Sonic Shock tier 3 makes a target not be able to trace your hacks and as long as you apply it to them and make sure the effect doesn't run out they won't track you or tell they're buddy's about you. There's ways to do it now but it's different from before my advice watch some YouTube builds about hacking now. It's changed a lot. it's still good just not overpowered until late game now or 15,20 intelligence. Also if your being tracked run away it will break and you can come back and try again. Another tip the quickhacks and they're components are easy to craft and they sell for a fortune. Also memory wipe is another good hack for stealth now.

Post automatically merged: Oct 3, 2023

I'm so mad about this tracing BS. There's one enemy, all the others are far away. I nuke him with Synapse Burnout, and I get traced. BY FUCKING WHO? This makes absolutely zero sense, even in universe. I hack someone from stealth, no one noticing it, so who can trace me back? Also, why can't I interrupt this? You could at least make a counter attack possible, like before. Or the mod that interrupted the tracing. You killed stealth netrunning completely by forcing me constantly into battles I don't want to have or playing a style I don't want to play. Thanks for nothing.

I've been using covert hacks with throwing knives together and it's pretty good actually. Grab all the stealth cyberware and it's even better. Sonic Shock tier 3 males a target not be able to trace your hacks and as long as you apply it to them and make sure the effect doesn't run out they won't track you or tell they're buddy's about you. There's ways to do it now but it's different from before my advice watch some YouTube builds about hacking now. It's changed a lot. It's not bad though it's still good just not overpowered until late game now or 15

I disagree. Level 25-30 is basically the halfway point of the game, and you should easily reach that if you're not just rushing through the main story. It makes sense for your build to become fully realized around that point in the game. Any time before that is too easy IMO.

I've only done 5 NCPD scanner hustles, about half the gigs (PL excluded), a couple of side jobs and I've barely touched the main quest. Only just finished Playing for Time, which is the first mission after the prologue. I would say I'm at about a quarter of the game , and I am already level 35. I've been rushing from gig to gig too, so it's not like I've been grinding random enemies eithers. It's really easy to reach that level, and still have a lot of content to experiment with your full build.

Yeah I am right at playing for time and I'm level 44. female V netrunner, stealth knives pistols snipers precision weapons tech and reflexes build.

 

[RandyMcStud]

I'm so mad about this tracing BS. There's one enemy, all the others are far away. I nuke him with Synapse Burnout, and I get traced. BY FUCKING WHO? This makes absolutely zero sense, even in universe. I hack someone from stealth, no one noticing it, so who can trace me back? Also, why can't I interrupt this? You could at least make a counter attack possible, like before. Or the mod that interrupted the tracing. You killed stealth netrunning completely by forcing me constantly into battles I don't want to have or playing a style I don't want to play. Thanks for nothing.

Stealth netrunning utterly trivialised the game. I am not saying every change made is perfect, but the game did need a significant buff to difficulty. Going around 1 shotting almost everything with short circuit with no risk of even being attacked is not compelling gameplay. On the plus side, they have added back in quick hacking through walls, albeit on a more limited basis.

You still get a pretty generous window before detection, you can outrange detection and you can use sonic shock. If you are patient, it is absolutely viable to still stealth netrun.

 

[Xamalion]

Stealth netrunning utterly trivialised the game. I am not saying every change made is perfect, but the game did need a significant buff to difficulty. Going around 1 shotting almost everything with short circuit with no risk of even being attacked is not compelling gameplay. On the plus side, they have added back in quick hacking through walls, albeit on a more limited basis.

You still get a pretty generous window before detection, you can outrange detection and you can use sonic shock. If you are patient, it is absolutely viable to still stealth netrun.

Before 2.0 sure, but just in late game. The beginning was challenging and you had to plan your moves because of low tier Cyberdecks/Quick Hacks. And I love it when I'm OP in endgame, for me that's the natural evolution of the character. I'm not completely against the changes and I tried some combinations others mentioned, using non traceable hacks first. I got used to it by now.

What still bugs me is that now you have to engage in combat at a given point or if there are simply too much enemies. The charm of the stealth netrunner was for me taking out enemies without having to engage in actual combat. That's what I'm missing now.

 

[Soylencer]

It definitely takes some getting used to, as there is a fair bit more depth than there was before.

You need to pay much closer attention to synergies between your deck, cyberware, perks, and quickhacks than you did before.

I could see some people not noticing that and think it's all nerfed; I can see other kinds of players noticing it but deciding it's not worth the effort when it used to be pretty instant-grat.

 

[DabloNB]

if you are traced run away, make a distance and the trace fails. still bad but maybe a way?

 

[Crimsomrider]

So I wish to kill multiple claims here with just two simple videos;

Claims such as;

• Stealth Netrunning is dead/impossible
• Netrunning became worse and "you can no longer wipe groups of enemies with just buttons"
• Nonlethal stealth is now impossible
• Stealth is more "challenging, in-depth" now
• Tracing forces Netrunners into melee range or to avoid hacking altogether
• Netrunners now have to rely on melee/ranged weapons to do stuff

I present to you the Claim Killers, enjoy;

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. Can explain fully in-depth what, how and why. Naturally this is not how I play, just a demonstration to show that everything a Netrunner was able to do pre-2.0, they can do now far better than ever because you CERTAINLY could not wipe out an entire group of enemies simultaneously like this before 2.0 without anyone being alerted at all.

Pre-2.0 a person needed either the Rippler or Netwatch cyberdeck to do 20% of what is shown in the videos, but now because there are absolutely no cooldowns you don't even need any cyberdecks to spread hacks. We just spread them manually and everyone falls to the ground.

Also tracing? Bye bye, say hello to my little friend Sonic Shock. Tracing as a mechanic itself needs improvements/rework because it should not be deleted from the game like this, but it also should not be a permanently persistent uninterruptable timer either. It's in a very bad spot right now because I haven't even seen it at all and this is a fresh 2.0 playthrough.

• T1 - Distract
• T2 - Distract or Bait, followed by Sonic Shock to sprint and grab enemies from behind since they're deaf
• T3 - Bye bye tracing, bye bye challenge. Not even Alt Cunningham can go toe-to-toe against a Netrunner now ^^

 

[Guest 3847602]

if you are traced run away, make a distance and the trace fails. still bad but maybe a way?

So, like kiting in mmorpgs? Yeah, it's just "bad", certainly not "a way".

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

Is it possible to play as stealthy netrunner at level 1-15? Cause every strategy that I've seen recommended requires decent quickhacks and cyberware that you won't be able to use during first dozen or so hours.

Maybe we have different ideas of what playing stealthy means... My idea of stealth isn't to play as a Doomguy for 10 hours, than transition into Garret.

 

[Crimsomrider]

Is it possible to play as stealthy netrunner at level 1-15? Cause every strategy that I've seen recommended requires decent quickhacks and cyberware that you won't be able to use during first dozen or so hours.

Absolutely. I've done all the main missions The Rescue, The Pickup and The Heist entirely undetected while picking off all of the enemies along the way as levels 1-10. Wasn't even a challenge, just took some extra time.

Here is how I got through them via T1 and T2 Netrunner equipment;

• T1 - Distracting enemies via devices is your best friend. At T1 you won't have any meaningful quickhacks, so Distract leading into a stealth takedown is the primary combo. A completely undetectable stealth playstyle that combines Netrunning with stealth takedowns.
• T2 - Here a lot more options start opening up. You can use Distract or Bait, followed by Sonic Shock. At T2 Bait no longer alerts enemies and Sonic Shock becomes available to deafen enemies. This allows you to sprint behind them and grab them while they're distracted.

Once I got to ACT II (the Heist leveled me up from 10 to 15) and upgraded my cyberdeck and quickhacks to T3;

• T3 - This is where Netrunning completely opens up, tracing as a feature gets deleted and you no longer have to approach enemies at all. Sonic Shock + any combat quickhack will take out an enemy without tracing. Mind Wipe also becomes available which completely blinds enemies (shown in the video above). The player has so many tools at their disposal now that they only have to decide how to play the wonderful Netrunner game.

The reason why Sonic Shock is important to be uploaded BEFORE any other quickhack is not just because it cuts enemies off networks and thus deletes tracing, but also because of the Embedded Exploit perk which gives +60% Quickhack damage against enemies affected by Covert/Control quickhacks (2nd middle tree perk). This allows you to one-shot enemies via Short Circuit or Synapse Burnout instantly so they can't even enter alert state.

Important to note also that your levels do not matter for equipment. If you just go collect enough resources you can upgrade the cyberdeck a lot sooner than vendors could sell them, this is how I could have gone into the Heist with T3 equipment, but I decided to see how it'd be with T2 instead.

I've got my Epic cyberdeck at level 16 (I believe they are only sold at level 30). So it's good to keep that in mind, upgrades are worth doing rather than waiting to buy stuff.

 

[gregski]

Absolutely. I've done all the main missions The Rescue, The Pickup and The Heist entirely undetected while picking off all of the enemies along the way as levels 1-10. Wasn't even a challenge, just took some extra time.

Here is how I got through them via T1 and T2 Netrunner equipment;

• T1 - Distracting enemies via devices is your best friend. At T1 you won't have any meaningful quickhacks, so distraction leading into a stealth takedown is the primary combo. A completely undetectable stealth playstyle that combines Netrunning with stealth takedowns.
• T2 - Here a lot more options start opening up. You can use Distract or Bait, followed by Sonic Shock. At T2 Bait no longer alerts enemies and Sonic Shock becomes available to deafen enemies. This allows you to sprint up to them from behind while their backs are turned.

Once I got to ACT II as a level 15 and upgraded my cyberdeck and quickhacks to T3;

• T3 - This is where Netrunning completely opens up, tracing as a feature gets deleted and you no longer have to approach enemies at all. Sonic Shock + any combat quickhack will take out an enemy without tracing.

The reason why Sonic Shock is important to be uploaded BEFORE any other quickhack is not just because it cuts enemies off networks and thus deletes tracing, but also because of the Embedded Exploit perk which gives +60% Quickhack damage against enemies affected by Covert/Control quickhacks. This allows you to one-shot enemies via Short Circuit or Synapse instantly so they can't even enter alert state.

Important to note also that your levels do not matter for equipment. If you just go collect enough resources you can upgrade the cyberdeck a lot sooner than vendors could sell them. I've got my Epic cyberdeck at level 16 (I believe they are only sold at level 30). So good to keep that in mind.

Exactly how I've been playing a stealthy netrunner after 2.0. Distract + takedown. More demanding but also more fun at the end.

Currently I'm on much higher level and I'm back to that sweet, OP style of stealthily one shotting mobs with my epic silenced pistol

 

[Didacgomez]

Absolutely. I've done all the main missions The Rescue, The Pickup and The Heist entirely undetected while picking off all of the enemies along the way as levels 1-10. Wasn't even a challenge, just took some extra time.

Here is how I got through them via T1 and T2 Netrunner equipment;

• T1 - Distracting enemies via devices is your best friend. At T1 you won't have any meaningful quickhacks, so distraction leading into a stealth takedown is the primary combo. A completely undetectable stealth playstyle that combines Netrunning with stealth takedowns.
• T2 - Here a lot more options start opening up. You can use Distract or Bait, followed by Sonic Shock. At T2 Bait no longer alerts enemies and Sonic Shock becomes available to deafen enemies. This allows you to sprint up to them from behind while their backs are turned.

Once I got to ACT II as a level 15 and upgraded my cyberdeck and quickhacks to T3;

• T3 - This is where Netrunning completely opens up, tracing as a feature gets deleted and you no longer have to approach enemies at all. Sonic Shock + any combat quickhack will take out an enemy without tracing.

The reason why Sonic Shock is important to be uploaded BEFORE any other quickhack is not just because it cuts enemies off networks and thus deletes tracing, but also because of the Embedded Exploit perk which gives +60% Quickhack damage against enemies affected by Covert/Control quickhacks. This allows you to one-shot enemies via Short Circuit or Synapse instantly so they can't even enter alert state.

Important to note also that your levels do not matter for equipment. If you just go collect enough resources you can upgrade the cyberdeck a lot sooner than vendors could sell them. I've got my Epic cyberdeck at level 16 (I believe they are only sold at level 30). So good to keep that in mind.

See, but using a dnd analogy they changed from quadratic wizard to fighter wizard (according to your T1 and T2), while some people enjoy their quadratic wizards.

 

[GHOSTMD]

What are you talking about "stealth netrunning" is still quite alive, they just made it a bit more demanding

if you refer to Quickhacks being traceable, there is a simple solution for this
skill the waiting queue then use this combo to NOT get tracked

Audio Shock
any combat Quickhack you fancy
WIN

Works really nice for silent hack takedowns

 

[Crimsomrider]

See, but using a dnd analogy they changed from quadratic wizard to fighter wizard (according to your T1 and T2), while some people enjoy their quadratic wizards.

Not true though because Netrunning experience remains exactly the same in terms of the meta, the only difference is how it's achieved for T1 and T2.

• Pre-2.0 you also were not able to purely use quickhacks for a stealthy playstyle in early levels, you had to combine Reboot Optics with stealth takedowns which then made Distract/Bait entirely obsolete.
• With 2.0 the player actually gets to use Distract for the first tier, Distract and Bait for the second tier and for the third tier Netrunning is entirely open just like it was pre-2.0.

So both experiences involve stealth takedowns at pre-Heist levels, the only difference is they finally made Distract/Bait useful instead of just spamming Reboot Optics.

 

[Socratese5]

I’m not sure ending a message with “thanks for nothing” is the best way to get something chanaged or fixed.

 

[Soylencer]

I’m not sure ending a message with “thanks for nothing” is the best way to get something chanaged or fixed.

Especially when OP has been exposed as objectively wrong about almost every point they addressed [via videos, quotes, guides, and in-game texts]

 

[Guest 3847602]

Absolutely. I've done all the main missions The Rescue, The Pickup and The Heist entirely undetected while picking off all of the enemies along the way as levels 1-10. Wasn't even a challenge, just took some extra time.

Here is how I got through them via T1 and T2 Netrunner equipment;

• T1 - Distracting enemies via devices is your best friend. At T1 you won't have any meaningful quickhacks, so Distract leading into a stealth takedown is the primary combo. A completely undetectable stealth playstyle that combines Netrunning with stealth takedowns.
• T2 - Here a lot more options start opening up. You can use Distract or Bait, followed by Sonic Shock. At T2 Bait no longer alerts enemies and Sonic Shock becomes available to deafen enemies. This allows you to sprint behind them and grab them while they're distracted.

Once I got to ACT II (the Heist leveled me up from 10 to 15) and upgraded my cyberdeck and quickhacks to T3;

• T3 - This is where Netrunning completely opens up, tracing as a feature gets deleted and you no longer have to approach enemies at all. Sonic Shock + any combat quickhack will take out an enemy without tracing. Mind Wipe also becomes available which completely blinds enemies (shown in the video above). The player has so many tools at their disposal now that they only have to decide how to play the wonderful Netrunner game.

The reason why Sonic Shock is important to be uploaded BEFORE any other quickhack is not just because it cuts enemies off networks and thus deletes tracing, but also because of the Embedded Exploit perk which gives +60% Quickhack damage against enemies affected by Covert/Control quickhacks (2nd middle tree perk). This allows you to one-shot enemies via Short Circuit or Synapse Burnout instantly so they can't even enter alert state.

Important to note also that your levels do not matter for equipment. If you just go collect enough resources you can upgrade the cyberdeck a lot sooner than vendors could sell them, this is how I could have gone into the Heist with T3 equipment, but I decided to see how it'd be with T2 instead.

I've got my Epic cyberdeck at level 16 (I believe they are only sold at level 30). So it's good to keep that in mind, upgrades are worth doing rather than waiting to buy stuff.

Thank you for writing long and detailed response, but this only confirms that 2.0 netrunning isn't for me. Doing what it takes at T1 and T2 sounds indescribably boring.
To use fantasy RPG analogy - it would be like playing as a mage and being required to mindcontrol enemies into walking over the cliff or into the fire.
Not to mention that even at T3, hitting every single enemy with Sonic Shock during every single encounter before doing anything else with them (in a 100+ hours game) sounds just mind-numbing. Simply out of the question as far as I'm concerned...

 

[Crimsomrider]

Not to mention that even at T3, hitting every single enemy with Sonic Shock during every single encounter before doing anything else with them (in a 100+ hours game) sounds just mind-numbing. Simply out of the question as far as I'm concerned...

You don't have to play this way though, that's just how I play because I don't like tracing as it currently is so I entirely avoid it through Sonic Shock.

You can just upload whichever hacks you want and trigger tracing, which will make the stealth all the more challenging and interesting by making it timed, but there are also plenty of ways to reduce tracing or slow it down.

• Arasaka MK1/2/3/4/5 cyberdeck is dedicated for stealth Netrunners not using Sonic Shock and entirely anti-trace focused.
• Mind Wipe quickhack reduces tracing as well when uploaded through stealth.
• Stealth takedowns reset it entirely down to 0%.

So stealth Netrunning isn't just Sonic Shocking everyone, that's just my playstyle because I don't like the way it's currently implemented since it cannot be interrupted once triggered.

 

[pliskards]

I haven't even tried it yet. But just by reading these posts I can tell it is going to be a lot more entertaining than the previous netrunner I played...

Which was basically turn the game to the highest difficulty, hide, cast contagion, everything died... go and pick up loot. Repeat.

 

[Crimsomrider]

Which was basically turn the game to the highest difficulty, hide, cast contagion, everything died... go and pick up loot. Repeat.

It still is

Not only does Contagion spread even more now, it also STACKS ^^