Yeah. I just officially retired the "all in" deck and shifted back to my 'Shadow Over Innsmouth' deck which just has Sabbath as a small part of its strategy. It just won me a match, but only because it was used as a supporting actor.
Monsters bad? lol 
you just need to forego Sabbath completely. As the entire meta techs against it, you can just pick another gold, monsters have plenty of great all around golds and some good conceptual ones (all around: Ge'els, Woodland Spirit, Kayran, Whispess: Tribute - Conceptual: Caranthir, Brewess: Ritual, Weavess: Incantation, Draug, Kayran (again), Caretaker. All around good: Miruna)
For me Monsters rank as the second most powerful faction right now. If you DON'T play Imlerith: Sabbath at least. If you do, in a meta where everyone and their mother has tech'd against it completely, statistically you stand to sacrifice too much for the chance to win the game with one card. Because since Imlerith: Sabbath (completely) unsupported is meh at best, he defines your second gold as (more commonly) Whispess: Tribute OR, Renew/Royal Decree (picking 3 golds to revolve around I:S is overcommitment and you saw how well that works). That's 2 Golds revolving around I:S (one being him) already. Even the generally good Whispess: Tribute that you pick loses value as you wait for the chance to Mandrake I:S when you could have played it to great effect before that.
On the other hand, You have Deathwish (Tier 1), Moonlight (Been playing it since day 1 of Midwinter - Definitely viable all the way to Rank 20. Got me to 4k MMR with a positive winrate for 2 seasons and one of them was the dwarves season), and everything else is IMO, Tier 2. Compared to NG and NR, who have only one Tier 1 deck each and the rest are Tier 3, well, I'd say you are at an advantage
you just need to forego Sabbath completely. As the entire meta techs against it, you can just pick another gold, monsters have plenty of great all around golds and some good conceptual ones (all around: Ge'els, Woodland Spirit, Kayran, Whispess: Tribute - Conceptual: Caranthir, Brewess: Ritual, Weavess: Incantation, Draug, Kayran (again), Caretaker. All around good: Miruna)For me Monsters rank as the second most powerful faction right now. If you DON'T play Imlerith: Sabbath at least. If you do, in a meta where everyone and their mother has tech'd against it completely, statistically you stand to sacrifice too much for the chance to win the game with one card. Because since Imlerith: Sabbath (completely) unsupported is meh at best, he defines your second gold as (more commonly) Whispess: Tribute OR, Renew/Royal Decree (picking 3 golds to revolve around I:S is overcommitment and you saw how well that works). That's 2 Golds revolving around I:S (one being him) already. Even the generally good Whispess: Tribute that you pick loses value as you wait for the chance to Mandrake I:S when you could have played it to great effect before that.
On the other hand, You have Deathwish (Tier 1), Moonlight (Been playing it since day 1 of Midwinter - Definitely viable all the way to Rank 20. Got me to 4k MMR with a positive winrate for 2 seasons and one of them was the dwarves season), and everything else is IMO, Tier 2. Compared to NG and NR, who have only one Tier 1 deck each and the rest are Tier 3, well, I'd say you are at an advantage
I've done well with Monsters in CB, for sure. All my strategies had to evolve when I came back after OB and Midwinter. Since then I ran a nice mutt deck of my own design which carried me to 18. Not bad for a returning oblivious dipshit like myself. Then I ran a standard consume deck with a few personal tweaks to 19. Right now I'm running a Dagon deck that's doing pretty well, so we'll see how far that takes me. 18 now and would probably have climbed higher if I wasn't so stubborn about Imlerith.
Ask my wife...I'll go to the greatest lengths to prove people wrong with underdog tactics. I usually don't.
Ask my wife...I'll go to the greatest lengths to prove people wrong with underdog tactics. I usually don't.
Just in case there where some people doubting about Sabbath being a problem, let me tell you a story.
Today I wanted to play some Casual and since the daily quest were to play 5 games with Monsters, I've made a nice Blood moon deck (no Sabbath, no shenanigan)...
I've "played" 5 games, 5 opponents conceiding right after mulligan...No, Sabbath isn't oppressive at all...
Today I wanted to play some Casual and since the daily quest were to play 5 games with Monsters, I've made a nice Blood moon deck (no Sabbath, no shenanigan)...
I've "played" 5 games, 5 opponents conceiding right after mulligan...No, Sabbath isn't oppressive at all...
ser2440;n10653821 said:Monsters bad? lol
For me Monsters rank as the second most powerful faction right now. If you DON'T play Imlerith: Sabbath at least. If you do, in a meta where everyone and their mother has tech'd against it completely, statistically you stand to sacrifice too much for the chance to win the game with one card. Because since Imlerith: Sabbath (completely) unsupported is meh at best, he defines your second gold as (more commonly) Whispess: Tribute OR, Renew/Royal Decree (picking 3 golds to revolve around I:S is overcommitment and you saw how well that works). That's 2 Golds revolving around I:S (one being him) already. Even the generally good Whispess: Tribute that you pick loses value as you wait for the chance to Mandrake I:S when you could have played it to great effect before that.
On the other hand, You have Deathwish (Tier 1), Moonlight (Been playing it since day 1 of Midwinter - Definitely viable all the way to Rank 20. Got me to 4k MMR with a positive winrate for 2 seasons and one of them was the dwarves season), and everything else is IMO, Tier 2. Compared to NG and NR, who have only one Tier 1 deck each and the rest are Tier 3, well, I'd say you are at an advantage
ge'els is alright but he isnt a finisher and basically a royal decree that you pooped on as a waste in the second half of your analysis
woodland spirit is just another dagon. alright but redundant and a little low on point value most of the time
kayran is a worse muzzle
whispess: tribute is the only good finisher in monsters and all it does is create a bronze unit with monsters nest... so you burn a gold and silver to get a bronze finisher that usually just eats a scorch or mandrake or gets hit with jade or gets beaten by a better finisher from better factions
caretaker is alright but techy and kinda bad in some matchups
brewess: ritual is mediocre. she is useless early game and also bad in short round 3s/a bad finisher. she is useless if they muzzle/jade figurine/mandrake your targets as well or if they eat/shuffle your targets out of your grave. archespores and d'ao both take so long to reach value that most people dropped the entire deathwish theme and just moved to siren/moonlight/werewolf. i really wish there was something better to replace her with in my deathwish deck.
weavess is terrible
draug might as well just run ciri another neutral card that is better than anything in monsters
miruna is just flat out worse than I: Sabb. how can you argue that I: Sabbath is squishy and easy to counter but that miruna isnt? lol
all of the relicts are horrible
all of the wild hunt are totally horrible
monsters needs some love bad...
Nope. He is not. Even though there are similarities, he isn't. Also, I pooped on Royal Decree when taking it FOR Imlerith: Sabbath. Not in general
Doesn't mean everyone runs Dagon. Even if you do, it can set up a Ciri: Nova if you run 2 Foglets and 2 of everything else (there's your finisher)
Worse? when it gives you more points and triggers consumptions on your side? Not really. It's 19 points + the amount of Nekkers you have, + triggering any Arachas Behemoths. It's not much better but it's not worse. Like I said though it is conceptual, it works with consume decks.
I use it more as tech than as a finisher. It's far more useful that way. Monster's Nest is not ment to just give you a STR 11 Ancient Foglet for the finisher, but a drowner to push enemies in a hazard, an arachas behemoth if you run consume, a barbegazi. It's a multiple use card but not reliable as a finisher.
Like I said conceptual. Meaning it works best when you have something to revive (like Iris)
not really. With 2 Archespores, Brewess ritual is basically a 15 point Leshen. With 2 Rotfiends, it is almost a finisher. It reaches a good gold value pretty fast when you look it that way. Sure archespores themselves might not get to the nominal bronze value of 11 that fast, but the usual thing that matters is value per turn, not per unit (hence why Henselt is so good)
She is ok. Not great, but ok in Relict decks. It's just that Relicts need something else to run them with usually, they are not a complete archetype. With Leshen and Whispess Tribute, which are musts, she can get good value. Especially since the Crones are a great counter to Brouver's "Brouver into Barclay into Cleaver" play
Wrong. Draug is bloody amazing in any sort of swarm. Run him with Ruehin or Yennefer or even better both and you'll know what I am talking about.
Because miruna HAS to be played as the second to last card. I can't stress that enough, she just HAS to. I tried her in my Moonlight deck and it worked very VERY often actually. It didn't work, like twice or so. By the time you play her, all of the opponent's removal will have gone. Besides, I've used Miruna to charm an 11 point Imlerith: Sabbath
I am not arguing that Sabbath is very easier to counter than Miruna, but Miruna doesn't have to be played early. You can bait out all of the removal the opponent might have far more easily.
They are not worse than, say Reveal, which is a low Tier 2 deck. I've played WH since the early days, it's even the first deck I transmuted. I still play it and ok, it's not great, but it's alright.
Imlerith should be ''Doomed''. But not nerfed. Imlerith gives a good incentive to use Lock cards and Manticore Venom or Glorious Hunt. Its a really powerful card, yes, but the only thing I would change with Imlerith - give it ''Doomed'' status. So that he cant be resurrected and used twice.
Monsters isn't terrible. Check the latest meta report (https://gwentup.com/report/18/8). Two monsters leaders have exactly 50% win rate - Dagon & Arachas Queen. Sure the faction has its problems - in particular, a lack of good bronzes - but it's also got its strengths. Dagon's ability to put 12 power into play simultaneously with a 2-point / turn engine is quite powerful, and the deck can do it twice with Woodland Spirit.
You can try not running Sabbath. Right now everyone and their mothers are teched with Sabbath hate. Play something else, and reap the rewards of the fact that Sabbath's very existence forces people to play differently.
You can try not running Sabbath. Right now everyone and their mothers are teched with Sabbath hate. Play something else, and reap the rewards of the fact that Sabbath's very existence forces people to play differently.
partci;n10656861 said:
Yup. Same decks and same leaders at the top, with maybe one card change. Sabbath's had almost no effect at all beyond getting more mandrake in circulation and more people playing Monsters.
And in fairness, it's not like Mandrake's the sort of card that bottoms out if there's no Im to hit. It's an all round great card in and of itself, especially if you get lucky and have a big boosted unit to hit, or one of your guys drops to exactly 1 health.
ser2440;n10654611 said:
just run the fog mage and dont waste the gold slot
i dont even see anyone playing nekkers anymore.. that deck kinda sucks
whispess -> monsters nest -> ghoul -> eat a spy is a 24 point finisher. fogs are usually burnt before round 3 and foglet wont hit that value
15 points out of a gold is trash and it would take 5 turns of uninterrupted archespores for her to hit value turn 3... usually doesnt happen
archespores also totally blow in some matchups and there are tons of ways the opponent can play around it. half the time they are hitting greatswordsman or you kill a bearmaster and set up a res for them or you damage a viper witcher and give them an even better trial of grasses or you hit a machine that just gets healed etc.. etc.. etc... or you go double archespore and they scorch etc..
15 point gold... pretty bad...
trash deck
Because miruna HAS to be played as the second to last card. I can't stress that enough, she just HAS to. I tried her in my Moonlight deck and it worked very VERY often actually. It didn't work, like twice or so. By the time you play her, all of the opponent's removal will have gone. Besides, I've used Miruna to charm an 11 point Imlerith: Sabbath
at best she is a bad villentrenmerth (another neutral card that is better than all of the monsters golds
Jeydra;n10655611 said:
losing half your games means your deck is bad
meta report nailed exactly what the top tier decks are that i mentioned earlier in the thread
skellige bears
skellige boats and swords
alchemy
machines
brouver
everything else is tier 2/3
Yeah...but fook me if I'm ever going to play one of those decks just because they're winning decks. I'd much rather do it my way and see how far I can get or how I can outsmart somebody playing a stronger deck. Where's the fun in playing one of those? I mean...honestly.
Except it's usually worth running the Crones instead because they can counter Brouver's "Brouver into Baraclay into Cleaver" play. So if that's the case, you can't spare the silver slot. Plus, Leshen's also awesome in swarm decks which, depending on what you run, are not trash at all.
Run across 2 of those today
True. Anyway, she is great in general, she is like the Monsters version of Natalis.
Sure they are counterable, but that 15 point gold, even if they get scorched, becomes 20 - 22 points. And if they don't, in one turn it's 17, in 2 turns it's 19, plus the deathwish trigger targets. Ok granted, they might be less than ideal in some cases, especially against Greatswords, but against Alchemy for example, they can't use the Trial of the grasses on everyone
IN that case you can just res a d'ao and be done with it. After all, if it was that crap, Deathwish wouldn't be Tier 1.Lol. Depends. Werewolf swarm with Alphas isn't. Leshen helps a lot in that deck. It is what got me to 4k MMR with said positive winrate in the last 2 seasons after all. That's hardly trash, even if it's not top.
A bad villentretenmerth doesn't trigger in 2 turns nor does it charm the opponent's highest unit. nor can it charm a Mandraked Imlerith: Sabbath, it will be long destroyed.
Anyway, the topic here is that card, so I'll refrain from going off topic. My point is monsters are not bad, as long as you don't actually play Sabbath
liezldiezldee;n10659891 said:
Um... the top top deck has a win rate of 54%.
You do realise that 54% isn't much higher than 50%, right?
After playing with him and getting him played against me my thoughts are he is fine as is. Yes, it's terribly frustrating to not be able to remove him and have him devastate your whole hand. I've only used him in arena and I'd say 3 of 10 times he's unstoppable. Odds are about the same when played against me. Some combos make him almost immediately unstoppable. I removed a 25 point shupe with him once he wasn't killed after first turn. The game needs more creative cards like him.
Ever since I switched from an "All in" Sabbath deck to a Dagon deck with him as a potential supplement I finally hit rank 19 at about #4-5000 globally after treading water for about 1.5 weeks and having an awful awful slide down to #10,000. I think it's safe to say this is where Sabbath belongs, as a supporting actor, and as such the card is fine.
At some point it's going to get boring going back and forth about him.
Oh wait...
At some point it's going to get boring going back and forth about him.
Oh wait...
I crafted this first as Monsters was already my main starter deck as it looked like it had potential.
Nah.
Even at Rank 12 i might get 1 or 2 kills from it before its gone. I even have Renew and have yet to run into a situation where this card has " won me the game by itself ".
Nah.
Even at Rank 12 i might get 1 or 2 kills from it before its gone. I even have Renew and have yet to run into a situation where this card has " won me the game by itself ".