FP VS TP - perspective matters

[Suhiira]

All those fpp games have been very clear from the first announcement that they are fpp. So motion-sick people knew right away they cannot play it. So they never got hyped about those games and ignored them.

CDPR was vague for years and let people interpret 'mixed fpp/tpp' as they will. And now they reap the results of being so secretive and vague.

I have to agree to an extent.
Long time posters here have spent years speculating about FP/TP. The "typical crowd" championing FP only and the other 80-90% of us concluding both viewpoints made the most sense. And believe me the question came up to the point we asked that single question, viewpoint, several times. No spoilers, no other information about the game, just the point of view. The silence from CDPR led us to conclude CP2077 would have both as an option, based on their EARLY (2013ish) statements.

While I certainly understand why they'd want to emphasis FP for immersion and (presumedly) the way they want the games HUD to be presented via the cyberware your character has (GREAT idea) it was still assumed the game could be played TP. Long time supporters like MadQueen now suddenly find out they can't play a game they've spent years promoting and supporting.

Ya fucked up CDPR.
Telling us the game would be exclusively FP wouldn't have cost you a thing. Going about it they way you did is costing you dearly.

 

[PaniMauser]

Yea bring up the trusted developers who loves their audience and knows the reasons behind they're decisions.

Bioware was one of them before ME3 though.

 

[DCKLGOG]

And see the awkward animations built for FPP? Yiesh. Skyrim and Fallout were already pretty painful to watch.
https://funnyjunk.com/Crysis+2+in+third+person/funny-gifs/5220584/

But for exploration purposes, sure. I'm all for it.

The motions can't be MORE awkward the that of the NPCs around you!

 

[Gillian_Seed]

I decided to give Deus Ex Mankind Divided another try in an effort to prepare myself for the first person gameplay and I am just finding it so hard to get into. I find myself wishing I could zoom out and see the character I'm supposed to be playing as. Seems like all my hopes are resting on CDPR's ability to make something revolutionary cause I ain't feeling it.

 

[Mk3rd]

Bioware was one of them before ME3 though.

Yeah. Before ME3.. probably hired the wrong gun. They had number of good games back then. I seriously hope CDPR wouldn't follow suit after a decade.

 

[PaniMauser]

Long time supporters like MadQueen now suddenly find out they can't play a game they've spent years promoting and supporting.

Exactly. If this ain't classic 'bait and switch' - I do not know what is.

MadQueen (and some other youtubers) would not give as much free advertisement to the game if they knew it is unplayable for them.

Guess it is the main reason for CDPR's long silence on the issue.

Which would be totally expected of EA, but not from company that poses itself as better than them.

 

[DCKLGOG]

Those who legitimately have trouble playing first person perspective games because of motion sickness, I empathize. For your sake, I hope some kind of 3rd person view option is at some point feasible.

Other than that....holy cow, people, get a grip. It is absolutely nonsensical to demand third person because the Witcher was. The games are entirely different animals. Have the teensiest bit of faith that CD Projekt Red is making the best possible choice for the type of game they want to make. First person makes far more sense in a game in which there is gunplay, for one thing. It makes far more sense in a game in which there are optical cybernetics. It makes sense on many levels. It's almost like you've never played another game before the Witcher. Let go of your (in most cases) incredibly short-sighted and petty demands and TRUST THEM.

I don't want third person. For the sort of game this is, third person does not make nearly as much sense. We have already waited 6+ years for this game and the entire gameplay experience is built around 1st person. Guess what: this is the game of my dreams too. Gamers too often think a) they know the best way to do everything, and b) only what they know can possibly be good. Then they make demands, stomping their feet and threatening to not buy the game unless they get their petulant demands met. It's sad in the best of cases, but with this, with THIS company and this game, it's beyond pathetic and it makes me incredibly frustrated. Again, I hope that somewhere down the road those who genuinely have physical reasons they can't play first person games get a different option.

They are not threatening. They are exercising their freedom of choice, the freedom that all consumers have.

I acknowledge that it frustrates you, but unless you genuinely empathize with them, they have no incentive to empathize with you and argue rationally with you.

 

[sleepyhead062]

Including TPP in a FPP only game is a huge undertaking and probably some of the gameplay mechanic will need to go through some changes to incorporate even a somewhat working version of TPP. Take it like this, the roll dodging system of the witcher 3 wouldn't work very well in first person at all so they would have to cut it or change it somehow if they wanted to provide FPP in the witcher 3.

The recipe of doing something unique and revolutionary is to take risk, people will always be afraid of changes anyway. I'm reading good stuff about how good and unique the first person gameplay is. Now I'm just worried CDPR will change their gameplay vision because of this massive outcry and they'll not achieve the game they dreamed of.

And this is coming from someone who absolutely love to see character customization and completed games like skyrim entirely in third person even though they feel so janky in TPP. Even then I'm willing to give a chance if they achieve something good and shooting tends to work better in FPP.

 

[plp300]

The cost for this, when compared to that of the overall game, would be insignificant, especially because they'll have most of the third person protagonist animation in the game regardless.

This is what I tried to tell people man but they told me to not act like I know game design and all this jazz. Anyway this thread has surpassed 1000 votes good job guys!

 

[ogwarf1]

What's the point of customization if you are in first person?

I totally agree. What's the point in character creation and all this effort if you can't even see yourself do neat cyberpunk shadowrun things. Being able to switch between the two would be a great feature for this game. Only seeing my character in cut-scenes really turns me off, doesn't feel real.

 

[oumajgad]

120 pages...

It's FPP game. Get over it!

Some people here say that they're here since the very beginning, they had conversation about what the game will be: TPP or FPP.
To be honest if you would knew anything about Cyberpunk 2020 you would know from the very start it will be FPP. Considering all the hacking which is kinda like mind battles and that it is controlled with thoughts, cybernetic implants adding stuff to your eyes (IR, UV, TS+ and many others), smartguns that tell you where to aim and very deadly and tactical combat from PnP CP... I'm genuinely surprised that anyone though it will be TPP game. It would take away big chunk of options from both players and developers.

You're unhappy about it? Well, that's your problem. I was unhappy that TW games were TPP, because I absolutely hate TPP. I played all of them anyway, because they're amazing games. I didn't whine on forums, because the game is not 100% the way I want it to be.

But how can we expect people who believe that suddenly slapping TPP is an easy task, because animations or models are there to understand something so simple? Yes, that's exactly what Bethesda is thinking when they release any game, and we have to wait for a year or two for modders to fix them.

People complaining about the fact that there's no point of character customization in FPP... I have one question. Do you have tatoos? Do you wear nice looking clothes? Do you wear makeup? Yes? Well, there's your answer.

What else do we have here? Ah, yes. Just a bunch of people who have demands.

P.S. This vote is still insignificant and showes nothing. But if you chose to believe it does I'll tell you that. FPP lovers are lowering the difference already. Want to know why? Because those few people angry about FPP already voted, and there's only few of them left.

 

[plp300]

Baseless assumptions?
I repeat, go to reddit, go to the official discord, there's no "baseless assumption", there's over 3k people online at the moment watching the subreddit that's heavily in favor of first person.
There's over 8k people active at the moment on the official discord and that is also heavily in favor.
Other sites have also done polls and first person is either tied or coming at top.
And more importantly, cd is obviously in favor of first person.
Both reddit and the official discord are also missing the people not online at the moment, which I guess would be around 20k which is a much more considerable amount of people.
Meanwhile this thread has 684 votes in total, counting all in favor of both or motion sickness...

This was a knee jerk reaction to a lot of people that expected something specific for no reason at all
Not only they have way more people than this discussion but I also guarantee you that this will mostly blow over once we get gameplay.

Careful denouncing what doesn't follows your desires as "baseless assumptions".

To be fair if you try to post a TPP vs FPP on Reddit it will get taken down I have tried twice now. I even included the screenshot of what the dev said in this thread and it still got taken down right away it got 40 views in a couple of seconds then boom taken down.

 

[Elder90]

I am part of the 17% of people that can't play from the first person prospect. I have been so excited and promoted your game for 5 years. I found the announcement of cyberpunk being a fps to be extremely disappointing. It's almost a slap in the face to all gamers that have supported you for the last 5 years on social media. As of right now you have many players that will not buy your game unless you have a 3rd person option. What do you plan to do moving ahead? Are you going to accommodate gamers that can't play in first person? I sincerely hope you listen to gamers making their voice heard against cyberpunk 2077 and the game that was promised to us so many years ago.

 

[GW84]

For conversations sake, but is there truly anything you can only acchieve as a developer in FP instead of TP? Games as the Unchartered series, the Arkham series, Mass Effect, the Last of Us, Horizon Zero Dawn, the Witcher 3 (to mention the elephant in the room) and many more all offer beautiful and immersive enviroment while including cramped locations, big vertical cities, gunplay etc.

An often cited example is that of dynamic conversation, that of spotting a sniper while in a conversation. But isn't TP capable of doing just that if you don't lock the camera during conversation?

Note that I'm not talking about development and design as I feel the time to change and rework has passed, but simply wondering why they made the choice.

 

[PaniMauser]

Yeah. Before ME3.. probably hired the wrong gun. They had number of good games back then. I seriously hope CDPR wouldn't follow suit after a decade.

So you see my issue here.

When company is made sure that they can do no wrong and know what's best for the players over player wishes by 'trust the developer, they know what they are doing' crowd, they most probably end up making not the best decision possible.

Like, if they really wanted to make 'best possible experience' for the players, they should have been upfront about their decision to make this game fpp with minor tpp elements, or try to incorporate both modes from get go.

But presuming they know what 'immersion' means for every single player out there is definitely not about having best possible player experience in mind.

 

[oumajgad]

So you see my issue here.

When company is made sure that they can do no wrong and know what's best for the players over player wishes by 'trust the developer, they know what they are doing' crowd, they most probably end up making not the best decision possible.

Like, if they really wanted to make 'best possible experience' for the players, they should have been upfront about their decision to make this game fpp with minor tpp elements, or try to incorporate both modes from get go.

But presuming they know what 'immersion' means for every single player out there is definitely not about having best possible player experience in mind.

And people like you presume that everyone should have FPP and TPP in one game.
I don't want TPP in my games. And where's my happieness now?

Ah, you wan't to make everyone happy? It's impossible. Life doesn't work like that. Time to grow up. Santa doesn't exist.

 

[plp300]

There is the proof you can not even get your voice heard on Reddit without getting taken down or downvoted to hell because all the TPP people there left thanks to this.

 

[Trela46]

Thank u CD PROJEKT for FPP and dont listen those complainers ! but please show us gameplay ! because the hype is to big people will start to exploede soon if u don't show us some gameplay !

 

[PaniMauser]

And people like you presume that everyone should have FPP and TPP in one game.
I don't want TPP in my games. And where's my happieness now?

Ah, you wan't to make everyone happy? It's impossible. Life doesn't work like that. Time to grow up. Santa doesn't exist.

And where I ask to remove fpp???

Nothing is forcing you to play tpp in TES and Fallout. But they still have courtecy to accomodate both.

And I'm not asking all games to be both tpp/fpp. I jusk ask developers being upfront about it from the first announcement.

I would not be here if they told in 2013 that this game is fpp-only. I would not even be here if they told the game is fpp-only five minutes before e3 trailer dropped.

But no, they wanted to ride hype train for couple of days before third-party people told up what's really going on.

CDPR's silence on the perspective is the biggest problem. Why would they let people to get hyped for 5 years for something devs knew is not real just to go 'nah, we don't give a damn about you, but thanks for free publicity'?

Would it kill them to say 'the game is fpp with cutscenes and driving in tpp' any day in those five years?

 

[gregski]

There's also another argument backing their decision to go FPP as it's presented around 2:30 mark in this video.

It has to do with immersion, but specifically with Night City being so vertical in design and buildings being so high.