Video Card Upgrade

[mundanesoul]

Video Card Upgrade

Hey all, I'm looking to upgrade my AGP system one last time to play The Witcher before I take the plunge to PCIe. x1950PRO looks like a great card, but I'd really rather spend less than that if possible. Which would be the better choice between 7600GT, X1650PRO, and X1650GT? I apologize for my slight tech-noobishness. Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[mobidoy]

What is your operating system ? (could make a huge difference)

 

[username_2067007]

The Radeon performance ranks go through the suffixes in this order: XTX > XT > Pro > GT -- since there was no XTX for the X1650, that makes the XT the top Medium Radeon for the X1** generation, and the equal of the top 7600 card. (Incidentally, I don't remember that there was a "GT" model in the X1650s, either). Since you didn't compare the top X1650 to the top 7600, of course the 7600 GT has the advantage among the ones you named. ( I am going to take a guess that you meant to refer to the X1950 GT card when you named it as an X1650 instead. The X1950 is a High Level card, not Medium, and is a match to the 7900 GS, not to the 7600 GT. If this guess is a good one, and you can find an X1950 GT for sale, it will beat the 7600 GT by a long way. But my understanding was that those were a limited production item, now very difficult to find.)

 

[mundanesoul]

Yes, Kiwi, you're right, that was a typo on my part. Sorry - not exactly a morning person. ;DSo would the x1950 PRO be worth the extra 90 or so dollars I'd end up paying? How much of a performance jump am I looking at from the 7600GT? I'm fine playing the game on fairly vanilla settings, so if the 7600GT can provide enough power for that, it should be fine. But if I'm looking at a difference between the game slogging or running smoothly, it might be worth it.If it helps, I'm running Windows XP with a 3800+ AMD single core and 2 GB of high performance Corsair RAM.

 

[username_2067007]

I have an X1900 GT, which replaced an X850 Pro (both being PCI-e), although I recently used a Geforce 6800 GT on a slightly older PC that now has an X850 XTP in it (AGP). That older one acted up with two GBs of RAM, and although this game ran well enough on it, I stopped using it with this game when I dropped its memory total back down to only the one GB of RAM. The one I use for game play has a single core A64 4000 cpu and two GBs of RAM. When comparing similar cards (X1950 GT to X1950 Pro, for instance), the raw specs at GPU Review are a very quick one on one choice (choose "Compare Cards"), but it's less meaningful without a lot of experience when it's unlike cards, such as the 7600 GT versus an X1950 Pro, so then you should probably use the VGA charts at Toms Hardware. I just looked at Newegg's listings, and there is an X1650 GT listed there, now. What they don't have is an AGP version of the 7600 GT (they have very little from nVIDIA for AGP, actually). The X1950 Pro is there at $160 for one from HIS, while the X1650 XT isn't listed any more. There is an X1650 Pro, which wasn't up to the 7600 GT performance, not quite, and it's $140, which is way too much for what it is. Incidentally, Directron has the X1950 GT for only $120, and that's a very good deal (hmm? it's PCI-e).The premium cost on AGP is steep. I did find a Geforce 7600 GT there at Directron, in AGP, for $120, so that's only $40 less than the X1950 Pro. Here's a Toms Hardware charthttp://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=725&model2=716&chart=318The price difference is 25 %, and the performance difference is 27 % !

 

[continuity]

Among the three you listed (7600GT, X1650PRO, and X1950GT), the X1950 has the best performance, it's the only card to reach the recommended requirements for The Witcher.It's a bit of a shame, because you can probably buy a PCI-E 9600GT today for around the same price you can an AGP X1950 based card, and the 9600GT will heavily dominate.Right now is a great time to buy computer hardware, who knows how long it will last... You can get a cheap Core 2 processor, DDR2, and 9600GT/HD3870 based system today that will last you a good while. Something worth considering.

 

[mundanesoul]

Thanks, Kiwi. A lot of good info there. Will my 500W power supply be able to support an x1950 pro? That definitely looks like the card to get, but I'm worried about my PS supporting it.

 

[mundanesoul]

WOW.So I just priced a full upgrade to PCIe 9600GT, X2 4000+, 2 GB of RAM, a new MSI motherboard and PS and it came in at $595, which seems like an insanely good deal.I may just be upgrading my whole system.

 

[username_2067007]

It's always the 12 Volt amperage that counts highest, not the total potential Wattage, although a branded 500 Watt is "probably OK". Here are the brands I know can be trusted: Enermax, Fortron FSP, OCZ, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, and Sparkle. There are probably a couple of others, and "most" Antec PSUs are good, but they do have one series that is nothing but trouble, and since I don't recall which one to point out, I have to leave them out entirely. It certainly is possible to perform a full (PCI-e and DDR2) upgrade for reasonable costs, and I have done just that only a few months ago, such that two out of three PCs I use fairly frequently are now at least PCI-e instead of AGP. It's your choice, but the options are certainly good. I happen to be better impressed with the HD 3870 than the 9600, myself, however.

 

[mundanesoul]

My current PS is a Fortron with 15A on the 12V rails.

 

[continuity]

I may just be upgrading my whole system.

Now is a great time to do so, while hardware prices are low in every sector. Take a look at Core 2 based Intel systems as well.

 

[username_2067007]

My current PS is a Fortron with 15A on the 12V rails.

I'm running an X1900 card on a Cooler Master PSU (made by one of the big names) 500 with 16 A on the 12 V; you should be OK also.

 

[3py0n]

or look at the quad core, it's really cheap right now. Plus some ram and get the nvidia sli combo for like 500-600. so cheap. 2 8800 ultras i think...or gtx

 

[haydox]

or look at the quad core, it's really cheap right now. Plus some ram and get the nvidia sli combo for like 500-600. so cheap. 2 8800 ultras i think...or gtx

I agree here with the quad core, i upgraded to one from a single core AMD and im loving it! I also doubled my RAM size and went from DDR to DDR2 and bought a Radeon 3870X2 on the day it came out!If you are going to upgrade your system, parts do seem to be cheap now, my pc cost me (without hard drives, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers) about £800 (roughly US$1600).Also, check out http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/ for reviews and advice, the forum is a brilliant place to ask questions if you dont know exactly what you are doing (thats what i did when building my system)

 

[damoose79]

Wow, so this would put my ATi 1300 Pro on the low end of the spectrum then? I got a new system from Dell last year with this being the second best card available (I really didn't want to drop another $300). I may have to go upgrade soon now. Grrrrr...

 

[haydox]

Wow, so this would put my ATi 1300 Pro on the low end of the spectrum then? I got a new system from Dell last year with this being the second best card available (I really didn't want to drop another $300). I may have to go upgrade soon now. Grrrrr...

Yeah, sadly computer parts have an irritatingly fast life cycle at the top of the ladder! My £800 system will be distinctly mid-range at this rate by mid this year!

 

[username_2067007]

Wow, so this would put my ATi 1300 Pro on the low end of the spectrum then? I got a new system from Dell last year with this being the second best card available (I really didn't want to drop another $300). I may have to go upgrade soon now. Grrrrr...

Actually, if Dell told you anything else, someone lied like a rug. The X1300 Pro was Low Quality when it was brand new, and the difference in price a year ago between an X1300 and the next upward card, the X1650 Pro, was nothing like $300, it was only $40, max when the X1650 was new, and it's $20 or less today. But the X1300 is two years old now, not merely one, and when it was brand new, the Radeon Medium Level was a rather weak X1600, for which the $35 difference was almost not worth it back then. ATI's High Level video cards started (a year ago) from the X1900 GT, priced at a little more than twice the X1300's $85 price tag, but did reach above the $400 mark with the X1900 XTX. My opinion a year ago would've been that nothing worth playing was playable with the card you had bought then.

 

[damoose79]

Lovely. : So what would be a good card for a decent price? I don't want to spend a crap load of cash (after shelling out about $1800 for my current comp), but I want some decent, ok better then decent, gfx outo f it. I saw you recommended the PCI-E 9600GT earlier. Now my only issue is whether I can run a PCI-E. Any easy way for me to check short of tearing my box open (and vopiding my warranty)? I'm not stuck on ATI as a brand, so any other brand is fine with me.

 

[coelocanth]

Do you know what mobo you have in your rig?

 

[username_2067007]

The DxDiag utility should reveal it (buried in a ton of other stuff, perhaps), but it you really did buy it from Dell for that price no more than a year ago, it surely was a PCI-e(16) system. AGP ran out of steam very rapidly 3 1/2 years ago when PCI-e started, because AGP cost more to manufacture and to include on mainboards, and also cost more to build onto video cards. And the other end of the calculation there is that Dell didn't even start selling PCs with AMD cpus until after AGP was replaced by PCI-e (TTBOMK). OK, I just tested, and it's on the third Tab in DxDiag (go to start, then to RUN, and type in dxdiag, then press the enter key). Also, I've just run Pricewatch price checks on two decent cards at the top of the Medium Performance Level, and they are priced within pennies of each other, at $175 shipped. The Radeon 3850 may have a slight edge, but the 9600 GT is the one getting all of the attention. P.S. Since answering, I used Pricewatch again, this time for the superior Radeon 3870 card, and the one they showed was this one from eWiz for $193 shipped: http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=GA-3870_ZF&c=pwOne thing I am quite sure of about that card is that a 500 Watt "Class" power supply will be needed, and it should be from among the quality brand names (here are six of those - not all, but most - Enermax, Fortron FSP, OCZ, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, and Sparkle).