Building a gaming PC

[BlackWolf500.298]

Let's talk about bottlenecks since it has come up more than once and there are gamer myths around.

Bottlenecking means taking a large number of something and only outputing a smaller amount with a FIXED MAXIMUM. This means that regardless of how much more you produce, the output doesn't increase. Like a big jug and a small bottle both with the same neck size.

That's how I understood it.
Meaning basically if you processor does not have enough power in a category it doesn't matter if you have a geforce TITAN, the actual performance will not be better because certain technical limitations in one of the main components of your processor will determine the limit for you maximum performance output.

In order to say a CPU bottlenecks a GPU we would need proof that performance remains constant with increasingly better GPUs, under the same circumstances.

Older CPUs may not be as fast as more recent ones but they can certainly handle a modern video card and you'll definitely notice much improved performance. Modern CPUs probably have much faster memory management and result in a few extra frames or whatever, but most older enthusiast CPUs certainly do NOT bottleneck modern GPUs. It's not a bad idea to OC to squeeze a little more though.

Yeah the question in such cases though is, is it WORTH buying card X if my processor limits the performance at a certain point.

Let's say - hypothetically - that I buy a GTX 970 with a processor that is old (say an old Core 2 Quad 2,33 Ghz, I think that would limit performance), then is it worth (assuming I can not buy a new processor and assuming OC does not do much to help) to buy a GTX 970 if I can get SIMILAR results with a GTX 960 since the processor is limiting what my PC can handle anyway? (If you know what I mean).

If you buy a GTX 980 with and i3 dual core you probably can't play modern games because the requirements for the processor are way too high for your processor to handle it, meaning no matter how hard your GTX 980 works you can't overcome the limitations that your CPU puts on you (since different parts of games require different resources from different parts of the PC). That would be like spending a huge amount of money on a high-performance CPU-Cooler and then trying to save money by buying the cheapest Thermal Paste possible. IT has to FIT.

The question in terms of "bottlenecking" (IMO) is always: "CAN I get the maximum (or close to it) out of my graphics card with the processor I have, or will my performance be limited to a point where my graphics card only uses 60 or 70% of it's capability due to the fact that my processor can't deal with higher graphical settings anyway.

Or did I understand that wrong?

EDIT:
Ordered a MSI GTX 970 4GB Gaming Edition. They have an offer atm in Europe (don't know about the US) where you can get cashback of 50 € when you buy a mainboard and a graphics cards from them that are part of the offer. Thought I'd use that offer since I like MSI anyway.

Let's see how it works out with the card.
Will probably keep my monitor and just upgrade when the G-Sync ones are cheaper, you are probably right there considering it is a good new technology, but in the first generation (meaning not yet developed that well) and really expensive atm.

My 22" one takes up most of my FOV anyway considering I am pretty close to the screen, and supersampling will help me get the graphical fidelity higher. Also, as far as I understand it 27"/24" with 1920x1080 is less pleasing to the eye than 1680x1050 considering the pixels are concentrated on a smaller scale.

 

[volsung]

The question in terms of "bottlenecking" (IMO) is always: "CAN I get the maximum (or close to it) out of my graphics card with the processor I have, or will my performance be limited to a point where my graphics card only uses 60 or 70% of it's capability due to the fact that my processor can't deal with higher graphical settings anyway.

Not always. If your CPU is able to increase game performance when you use a newer, faster GPU, then it is not *A* bottleneck. Sure, it's not as fast as it could potentially be, but you just made your whole gaming experience faster. The question of which combination of CPU/GPU yields the highest performance is different.

Edit: Ideally yeah you might want to get as much out of your GPU as possible, but there are scenarios where having a modern GPU and older CPU is *not* a waste. For instance, budgeting or waiting for new technology to come out.

 

[Blasko23]

Overclocking sure wouldn't hurt. But that's a powerful CPU. Any Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon Sandy Bridge or later is at the head of the pack when it comes to memory handling. I wouldn't think of replacing it, not short of an actual demonstration that showed it to be inadequate.

What it doesn't have is PCI-e 3.0. This limits you to a single high-performance graphics card; SLI would make the PCI-e bus limiting.

Thanks, good to know. I definitely don't want to buy a new cpu if I don't have to . And yeah I'm planning on going with a single 970.

 

[ApuLunas.211]

there are rumours 980ti will be released in 2016 so i think of buying a evga 980 sc acx 2.0 ftw. is i7-2600k enough for such a card or should i overclock the cpu?

 

[Lugia161]

Hello,
I have question about requirements of W3. I have 1,5 years old http://www.notebookcheck.net/Toshiba-Satellite-L50-A-11X.104233.0.html . Can I run it on this or not ? Thanks for response ( Better will be with e - mail lugia161@gmail.com)

 

[tahirahmed]

@ApuLunas

Yes i7 2600k is enough for single card, overclocking will squeeze more out of it but no need to go crazy on it. It will handle single card as it is also.

@Lugia161

Short answer "yes". Long answer your CPU is good but GPU is quite on the weak side so probably on low settings "yes". The real question however is will you get playable experience ? I think not because the fps will be low.

 

[sidspyker]

Moved my PC from my broken down(quite literally) old case to a new case. It was overdue for many years. IT'S ALSO A SPIDERWEB

The old dilapidated case, the HDD bays are disfigured(not visible at this angle) so no HDDs could fit in, I had to... improvise

It wasn't a 'proper' case it was some local brand, back then getting parts from outside to my place was... really hard, it's a lot easier now(comparatively). You can see on the bottom left I've had to break it to fit the PSU inside

Can't use HDD bays so separated by stacking on top of the bays, the space between Optical Drive and Bays. HDD, under it a useless CD, under it a cardboard, under that another CD, and then 2nd HDD. 3rd HDD on top of Optical Drive(not pictured). Have been running it like this for ~6 years

I'm simply not good at cable management, and the non-modular PSU doesn't help but I tried and I'm pretty sure it looks a lot cleaner in the new case with 80% of the wires at the back

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Tell me about it, just finished building my new rig.
Man that thing looks like it's from another world.

Did you get a Big Tower this time?
I got a Big Tower and boy the SPACE you have in that thing, amazing.
Also got one with backroom for the cables, it looks all clean now. Got 3 case fans (front, top, back) already with the case, then a BeQuiet CPU cooler and an Enermax PSU Modular. (Mainboard is MSI Z97 Gaming 5). (thinking about getting a 4th fan though.... maybe at the side pannel...)

Didn't test it yet, had some trouble with the cables that came from the case itself (you know, Frontal USB3.0, USB2.0, eSata, Audio-connections, LED-power, power switch, etc. HATE connecting the cables, always so confusing)

Anyway, got them (the cables) nice in bundles now and most of them going through the back of the case. Can't wait to test the PC.....

 

[eskiMoe]

@sidspyker

What case did you buy?

 

[sidspyker]

Didn't wanna spend too much(saving for new CPU and Mobo), got a Corsair Carbide Spec-03 and from what I've gathered(including personal experience so far) it's a great budget case.

 

[tahirahmed]

@sidspyker

Looks great man ! There are still couple of areas where you can improve cable management though.

 

[dragonbird]

@sidspyker

Looks great man ! There are still couple of areas where you can improve cable management though.

He needs some of these...

 

[sidspyker]

@sidspyker

Looks great man ! There are still couple of areas where you can improve cable management though.

A non modular PSU would help a lot most of the wires are just stuff I don't need

 

[eskiMoe]

You mean a modular PSU would help? Or I dunno, maybe you have some cable fetish..

But anyways. Decided to clean my PC today and noticed that it didn't need any (apart from cleaning the dust filters). This tells me that:

1. The dust filers in the Fractal R4 are brilliant.

2. Raising the PC case from the floor where it used to sit to a higher platform reduces dust and other shit from getting into the case.

3. I've managed to create a positive pressure inside the PC case with my current fan setup.

Overall quite pleased.

 

[tahirahmed]

A non modular PSU would help a lot most of the wires are just stuff I don't need

1) Try pushing that big popping mobo cable to the back, don't worry about getting rough with it that fat meshed cable is one son of a *****

2) Route the PCI-E power cables from the window in front of graphic card instead of bottom window, it will make the cables less visible.

3) Arrange all those loose SATA and Molex cables and tie them with a cable tie then hide that bundle behind the hard drive cabin.

 

[jjavier]

Spoiler

Moved my PC from my broken down(quite literally) old case to a new case. It was overdue for many years. IT'S ALSO A SPIDERWEB

The old dilapidated case, the HDD bays are disfigured(not visible at this angle) so no HDDs could fit in, I had to... improvise

It wasn't a 'proper' case it was some local brand, back then getting parts from outside to my place was... really hard, it's a lot easier now(comparatively). You can see on the bottom left I've had to break it to fit the PSU inside

Can't use HDD bays so separated by stacking on top of the bays, the space between Optical Drive and Bays. HDD, under it a useless CD, under it a cardboard, under that another CD, and then 2nd HDD. 3rd HDD on top of Optical Drive(not pictured). Have been running it like this for ~6 years

I'm simply not good at cable management, and the non-modular PSU doesn't help but I tried and I'm pretty sure it looks a lot cleaner in the new case with 80% of the wires at the back

I'm curious.
Why did you install the cpu cooler that way?
I ask this 'cos I've been told is better to align the fans in the heat sink with the fan in the case.

 

[sidspyker]

I'm curious.
Why did you install the cpu cooler that way?
I ask this 'cos I've been told is better to align the fans in the heat sink with the fan in the case.

It's technically wrong yes, but I installed it that way because earlier I only had 1 single fan on the CPU heatsink. Then I found a spare later and decided to make it a push and pull config. I would rotate the heatsink but that will upset the thermal grease so I'll have to reapply and I don't wanna do that now. When I get my new CPU and mobo then I'll do the needful and set it in the correct direction.

 

[tahirahmed]

I'm curious.
Why did you install the cpu cooler that way?
I ask this 'cos I've been told is better to align the fans in the heat sink with the fan in the case.

There is nothing wrong with that orientation, if there is a top exhaust fan in case then cpu cooler will take hot air from top graphic card and throw it towards the top exhaust fan which in turn will eject it outside, I too want to install my CPU cooler that way but the length of my ram sinks hinder the installation.

 

[GuyNwah]

There is nothing wrong with that orientation, if there is a top exhaust fan in case then cpu cooler will take hot air from top graphic card and throw it towards the top exhaust fan which in turn will eject it outside, I too want to install my CPU cooler that way but the length of my ram sinks hinder the installation.

I have one case with a hot-running AMD FX (TDP 125W, more like 140W in action) where I did that, point the cooler airflow to the top and put a fan in the top to exhaust it. Had to get a slimline fan to fit.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Just finished installing my new setup.

Intel Core i5 4690k 3,5Ghz
Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB RAM
MSI Nvidia Geforce GTX 970 4GB Gaming Edition
MSI Mainboard Z97 Gaming 5
Enermax Triathlor 80+ Modular 550W
Thermaltake Chaser MK-1 Big Tower Case

Finished Benchmark test with different programms checking my processor and graphics card in multiple test.
Also loaded up Metal Gear Solid V Ground Zeroes with highest settings, running smooth at 60 fps (well, 59.9 fps) and with a solid temperature of 59/60 °C for almost 2 hours.

I think (and hope) I set everything up the right way, connected the cables correctly and installed all drivers correctly. (Was my first time building the PC a rig all on my own)

(PS: My PSU should have enough power, right? It says on the Nvidia page (and in the specifications of my MSI version of the card) that the card needs a maximum of 145 - 200W and that a PSU with 500 W is recommended, I think I'm good with 550 W right? (how much W does a processor and mainboard normally need? And how much a hard drive? (sorry for the newbie questions))