The XP system is a total mess

[UhuruNUru]

Understand what you mean, just disagree. Rats shouldn't get tougher just because you level up, frankl;y I'd prefer no levelling system at all, using increasing skills and abilities to make tougher opponents beatable with the more intelligent Creatures able to increase their own skills and abilities to provide further challenge..

The thing is no single XP based levelling game, of this scope, can ever please all of us.

• Some stick to the main quest, doing few if any side quests.
• Others do all the content with one character.
• Another group may do the same, but with several separate playthroughs.

No level based system will suit all these play lengths and the oft stated siumplistic argument, "Just make the Harder difficulties for my preferred style and let those others do it on easy", just doesn't work.
It's most often voiced by the all in one go player, as they will always end up overpowered, but I've seen it argued for all types.
Right, it's obvious your way is the true hardcore way, other styles of play must be casual.

Thing is that's why open world games are from a PC gaming tradition.
PC users have the ability to mod games, to make the game suit their chosen style.
PC and Console gamers can also use the lost art, of setting self imposed limits, to tailor the game to their own tastes.

• Use poorer weapons and armour.
• Respec your skills and only use a limited amount.
• Don't use the more powerful potions and oils
• Be innovative and set your own challenges

These games have to be designed for a main quest only style, because that's the minimum requirement for a finished game.
So if you're on PC fix it to your liking, or do what console gamers will have to do, set your own limits. Make it a tougher game the DIY way.

 

[Tuco]

I love how some people constantly advocate for level scaling (despise being one of the most loathed features introduced in the RPG genre and something that recently more and more developers are openly distancing from) and they never stop to think for a minute that if you have to scale enemies to your level to compensate the issue, then maybe you didn't need a level system in the first place.

And in fact I don't think this game (or other RPGs) would lose a single thing by dropping levels entirely. Maybe even exp, as we are on it.
You could make any kind of monster consistently inside a certain limited range of power across the whole game, limit how much stats scale up as you progress and just handle to the player talents points/mutagens instead of exp, as Vampire Bloodlines did.

Meanwhile, minor tasks as cleaning monster lairs and so on would be rewarded with valuable alchemic reagents or unique loot.

 

[Mordamir91]

I understand your idea Tuco, honestly I wouldn't mind the system chose for a game, as long as it remains somewhat balanced throughout the whole experience.
Unuru, some animals as rats obviously wouldn't need to be inserted in the scaling up script, this is just a matter of using good sense. Leveling up rats would be dumb, I agree.

But you see, you have to think, just as some humans are stronger than others, that could be the case of monsters. Some monsters are tougher than others from their same species. It would be too much of hassle to create individual monsters with distinguished power, hence a script to scale em up is a better solution in the end. I'm just trying to figure a way, to envision a scenario in which the current game could be balanced, ultimately that's up for the developers.

They have to think what's best for their game, we are just thinking here.

 

[Mr_Walker]

It's actually very clever, as it ensures that everyone who finishes the game is banded in a tight range, hence expansions can be better tailored for end-game chars.

 

[Mad-E-Fact]

There's nothing clever about it. It's a cop out, just like level scaling. If they had found a way to make XP rewards feel meaningful and at the same time keep the game challenging from start to finish - now that would have been clever.

 

[Mr_Walker]

There's nothing clever about it. It's a cop out, just like level scaling. If they had found a way to make XP rewards feel meaningful and at the same time keep the game challenging from start to finish - now that would have been clever.

Level scaling of monsters. Meh.

 

[inversus]

Isn't it more of a problem with the notion that everything you do, from the lowliest side task to a main quest is expected to be rewarded with a freaking cornucopia of ludicrous XP and the most epic lootz these days? (Instant) gratification, because you did an awesome job, are awesome and therefore should be showered with awesome awesome?

Just enjoy the ride and stop making a fuss because you didn't get the best loot or maximum XP out of it, for christ's sake. The journey is the reward, especially if the journey is playing through the Witcher Wild Hunt.

 

[wichat]

IMHO, if weaker mosnters level up too, I'd feel like I never level up myself. Why Am I fighting and earning XP if the lower level monsters still being a danger for me?

No, I'd rather like be able to reach a level 40 with very harder Main Quests, and that getting too much overwhelmet (+3 levels) were deserved by my effort. I guess that making the structure of the main quest for being possible playing it without any another side quests was a not really good idea... IMHumblestO. All relic items you got in sidequests (exceept Treasure GEars) are scarcely useless

 

[Tuco]

Isn't it more of a problem with the notion that everything you do, from the lowliest side task to a main quest is expected to be rewarded with a freaking cornucopia of ludicrous XP

That's pretty much it, yeah.
I mean, as already pointed more and more times, the game doesn't exactly leave you starving for exp, if anything the opposite.
But apparently that's not enough and enjoying a quest just as a chance of talking part to another small glimpse of story is out of the question.
It's either "shower me in XP" or "I just wasted my time".

As I said, I'd rather see the issue of outlevelling stuff addressed (with some heavy tweak to quest "requirements" in some areas) rather than having just a "fix" to the exp problem.

 

[Mad-E-Fact]

If you don't care about mechanics at all and just want to "see how the story goes" you might as well be playing an adventure. Some people actually do care about the mechanics of an RPG.

Nobody wants to be showered in XP at every step - that's actually what the game does for the main quest: you get chunks of XP just for talking to an NPC and progressing "the story". Meanwhile going out of your way to explore and do side content, even if it's more involved or challenging than the storyline quests, rewards barely anything at all. There's a huge discrepancy there and the only reason is that people who "only want to see the story" don't feel left behind, and at the same time it hard caps XP to keep you within a narrow level range. Look at how Gothic 2 or similar games did it; it made exploration immensely more fun.

 

[Mordamir91]

Nobody wants to be showered in XP at every step - that's actually what the game does for the main quest: you get chunks of XP just for talking to an NPC and progressing "the story". Meanwhile going out of your way to explore and do side content, even if it's more involved or challenging than the storyline quests, rewards barely anything at all.

True. I have the feeling the dialogue lines are making me stronger rather than actually battling. Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually playing a rpg or just a visual novel.

 

[Tuco]

And that's a perfect example of fake issue.
The assumption that the majority of exp should come from combat to be a "proper RPG" doesn't have any rational base.

 

[Dubya75]

I'm almost level 23, about to kill a giant. When I kill him right away I get 400XP for the quest and level up (which turns the quest grey). But If I free the dude first which gives a handful XP I ding 23 and then for killing the giant and completing the quest I get a whooping 5 XP. So I must choose between keeping the dude alive or getting a meaningful reward for the quest. This is terrible design for an RPG.

If you really must artificially limit XP, why not make it so it's 10% less for every level Geralt is above the quest or something so it doesn't feel so arbitrary and completely pointless if you level up during a quest?

Perhaps your problem is firstly that you don't fully understand the XP system. Secondly, you are basing the enjoyment of a quest based on the arbitrary XP number that will pop up on your screen as a result? Really?

 

[wichat]

Then... why CDPR have made an open world?

 

[Mordamir91]

The Witcher 3 have a big world but the game don't seem to know what to make of it. It's just about the main story line. Exploring is hardly rewarding, the witcher gear quests are mostly go and fetch, there are no complex dungeons, just some small caves, everything is easy rewarded. Going back to beautifully modded Skyrim with my 100 naked nymphs while I keep my fingers crossed waiting for patch 1.07. If the game doesn't improve a bit in the sense discussed here, regardless of multiple requests it is just time to move on for me. There is no point keep insisting on it. I tried multiple mods to make it a bit more RPG, but it doesn't work. I think the design isn't for me afterall.

Oh well...

 

[wuerfelprinz]

Yeah, let's make an RPG for noobs in which everything scale and you can do whatever you want.

You do realize the main intent here is to scale quests up, not down, right ?

 

[thelostdunmer]

Haha. I'm now on level 21 and the main quest is greyed out. Now that's spectacular game design! NOT!!

 

[looprevil1964]

I have been playing through very slowly and reading keenly the opinions of all in the XP threads.

I stand in no corner, but have tried to play the game simply by moving with the main story for 1 chapter or level or quest however you want to look at it and then stroll off and gather a few side quests. I then complete as many of these as I can before they grey out, some do obviously but hey ho, and then just before the main quest greys out as I level, I go back and complete the next chapter.

Seems to have worked for me, I don't care about gear sets, I wear what I can up to the level I am at as also weapons etc. Like someone pointed out, the games design is to get you to finish at a certain level whatever you do so may as well try to keep as many of the quests as challenging as possible.

Can you actually kill a skulled red critter?

 

[Paprikamann]

Oblivion bad game ? Are you serious ? (i guess no )
Soon you will also tell me games like fallout 3 &vegas, dragon age origins, or whatever top game working on linear exp progression are bad heh

Yeah, I actually dislike Oblivion, but not (only) because of the leveling system. It has a lot of other issues, too.
I actually did like Skyrim, FO3 (didn't play NV) and DA:O. That doesn't mean I can't criticise their leveling system.


Just take a look at Dark Souls (or the Souls Series overall). For me, it has a close to perfect leveling and combat system.

 

[Natenanimous]

I hope that eventually mods will allow me to play in my ideal Witcher 3 world. I don't pretend that everyone will want to play this way, but it would be perfect for me. Let me describe it to you.

#1. I want all enemies throughout the game to scale randomly into a range from equal to my level to +5 from my level. I want to be challenged by every fight. I want skills to be my only chance to gain an edge on my foes. This would also allow me to play with enemy health bars turned off, which I much prefer, because the enemy level wouldn't matter; I'd approach every fight the same way. Right now I need to keep the health bars on to stop myself from getting into long, unwinnable fights where all I do is destroy my sword's durability or die. I used to play with health bars off, but I got into a disagreement with a rock giant creature and after 30 minutes of fighting and two breaks for sword repairs I turned health bars on to find it was twice my level and I'd only damaged it by about 10%.

#2. I want quests to give zero experience no matter my level. I want all my XP to come from killing enemies, with a set amount per kill (since all enemies will be a challenge due to the scaling in #1, there's no way to abuse this). I'm thinking perhaps 25 XP per kill. You'd need to kill 360 enemies to reach level 10; 960 to reach level 20; 1760 enemies to reach level 30; and a total of 2560 enemies to reach level 40. If that doesn't balance well you could always adjust to taste. This way I would be forced to hunt down and defeat challenging foes throughout the game, enemies that are always my level up to five levels higher.

#3. To go along with this would be some things that would probably be easier as self-imposed rules rather than modding, but you could probably mod it too. In order to keep the game challenging even as I gain skills and synergies, I would not allow myself to equip weapons or armor that I find on corpses or in chests. I could sell them, but I couldn't equip them. I would only be allowed to equip items I had crafted, as these would be tailored specifically for me. This would make the crafting system absolutely critical and would give me the feeling that I'm always working hard to keep at the top of my craft so I can handle all the monsters I kill as part of my profession. Level requirements would remain as they are on gear.

#4. Lastly, as a personal challenge, I would not pick up any crafting items until I had the diagram that needed those items, and then I would only allow myself to pick up as much as I need. This turns every gear crafting effort into a mini-quest. Sometimes I'd be able to buy the items I need from a vendor (making it harder to stockpile huge amounts of money), and for monster pieces I would need to hunt down and kill the specific monsters I needed to get their parts. I would also consider not allowing myself to loot things like food and alcohol from random barrels and boxes, instead requiring myself to buy them from merchants, which again would help with the money issue.

I think this would be a lot of fun, and a big, long challenge to play on Death March. I'd love to do it and I hope the tools will exist soon to make it so.