Alchemy Replenishment is a lame mechanic?

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Alchemy Replenishment is a lame mechanic?

I recall at the beginning of The Witcher 3 in the White Orchard prologue I was excited that I could run around and collect various plants, and even made it a heavy focus to go from farm to farm picking all the flowers and bushes I could, stocking up on buckthorn when I went down underwater.

This all quickly came to an end as even though you find new diagrams for new potions and potion upgrades, the ingredients for them were all readily available... in chests... in shops... the loot is everywhere, the purchase price of ingredients is negligible next to the sheer availability of money in the game (which is another problem altogether). The real problem though is potion replenishment. Even if you never buy alcohol or never loot villager's houses, you will end up with an enormous supply of the stuff making replenishment a non-issue, just get out of combat, meditate, and back into the fight.

I personally feel this cheapens the whole game to a degree, potions are no longer this super valuable resource you need to stock up on and hoard the ingredients for. All the hundreds upon hundreds of carefully placed herb spawns in the world go to waste because you're never really incentivized to go collect herbs in the wild, there's never really a need past the prologue. You spam potions like crazy, you will only ever visit the alchemy page when you have a new potion to brew, never to restock ones you've used up.

I'll admit the idea is great on paper, replenish your potions automatically is awesome for people who don't want to mess with menus constantly, but the way it's implemented just feels lame, you would think that after diluting your potion stock with alcohol for the 50th time that there'd simply be no potency left in it, and bombs? What does alcohol have to do with bombs? Also how are we replenishing a stock of something we completely used up? There's logical inconsistencies present that I can forgive if it makes sense for the gameplay, which I suppose it does for a casual player but then it should scale right?

What I mean is that potion replenishment should be fine on normal difficulties, but what about Death March? How much more brutal would that difficulty be just by removing potion replenishment where you had to be very careful about which battles you took potions in, and had to brew each one from scratch. Of course the potion inventory limit might need tweaking as well since it's very design is based off the replenishment mechanic, you ought to be able to stockpile them, but if used up, it's gone.

So CDPR, please consider in a future patch or Enhanced Edition either rebalancing alchemy to make herbalism and hoarding ingredients actually worth it or remove replenishment on harder difficulties.
 
I vote: very lame.

At least they could have had you select them and push a button, without using up ingredients just the same.

But having them automatically fill up whenever you meditate, ergo making it completely passive, is just too far into dumbing down territory.

What next? Witcher 4 starting out with ALL the potions already avaliable from the start and auto-replenishing too?
 
The replenish trick AFAIK was explicit to avoid people just stockpiling potions and not using them with the fear those will be needed in the future.

In Skyrim where you could make a lot of exp and gold on alchemy (+strong enchanting/upgrade potions) not everyone used it at all as their potion usage was limited to using found healing potions. It looks like "most" of players isn't interested in running in the search for plants and probably also for blacksmith components. They just want to hack and slash. And such customers are money ;)

But IMHO there could be an additional "difficulty" level where the rules would be different, less simplified, but without overbuffing monsters. Like alchemy isn't replenished, more differentiation between armour types, and preparing+using oils, potions, concoctions against enemies has stronger effects (monster stronger than normal if without preparation)...
 
In Skyrim where you could make a lot of exp and gold on alchemy (+strong enchanting/upgrade potions) not everyone used it at all as their potion usage was limited to using found healing potions.

It didn't help you couldn't learn any recipe without either looking it up on guides or EATING dozens of random ingredients, which is just dumb.
 
Yeah it sucks. I gave up collecting plants about 20 hours in and now cant make some of the later potions. Think your idea of potions not regenerating on higher difficulties is great, similar to health.
 
I can see the appeal of remaking the potions for realism sake, but man farming nekker hearts and troll livers for hours doesn't sound very fun to me.

Why stop at just suggesting potion no auto fill? Why not have swords have to be remade after so many repairs?
 
Although I love Witcher 3, lets face it, its RPG for dummies and lazy asses. And there are people that still exploit money lol.

The GPS handholding, the alchemy system, the witcher school armor, etc etc...
 
I can see the appeal of remaking the potions for realism sake, but man farming nekker hearts and troll livers for hours doesn't sound very fun to me.
I totally agree. This game already takes soooooo long, I wouldn't want that length artificially lengthened even further by having to hunt down alchemy ingredients.

I think a nice balance would've been if potions auto-refilled but decotions did not. To compensate, they could make decotions more powerful so you felt rewarded for tracking down the ingredients. Another possibility is if superior potions had more variations with different secondary effects, and you had to track down the ingredients for each one of those too.
 
Why not have swords have to be remade after so many repairs?
Because potions not refilling automatically is the equivalent of swords having to be repaired already. They just arbitrarily chose one over the other.

Potions automatically refilling=swords automatically repairing.

In fact, swords and armour breaking down that fast is an unneeded and unrealistic complication.

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RPG for dummies and lazy asses.
It could be played by an AI.
 
I can see the appeal of remaking the potions for realism sake, but man farming nekker hearts and troll livers for hours doesn't sound very fun to me.

Why stop at just suggesting potion no auto fill? Why not have swords have to be remade after so many repairs?

I can see where some potions require rare monster parts that that might be a little much to have to collect, there may be some overhauling of the crafting recipes needed to make this work. I do understand it may be too much to ask people collect ALL these ingredients every single time they want to brew a potion, especially cumbersome when we consider enhanced and superior potions require original potions to be made. There might be some compromise to be had here, I still think it could be retooled to be made more robust without becoming a horrible chore. I know not everyone wants to spend hours upon hours collecting ingredients and stockpiling potions but I think there's enough people interested in making it a better mechanic.




The replenish trick AFAIK was explicit to avoid people just stockpiling potions and not using them with the fear those will be needed in the future.

In Skyrim where you could make a lot of exp and gold on alchemy (+strong enchanting/upgrade potions) not everyone used it at all as their potion usage was limited to using found healing potions. It looks like "most" of players isn't interested in running in the search for plants and probably also


Except we still do stockpile potions, you end up making every potion you can and just keeping it around in case you need it instead of stopping to think "Do I really need Black Blood right now? When am I gonna fight another vampire?", also due to the quickslot mechanic limiting you to two potions you end up going the whole game mostly relying on two potions (or in my case Swallow and some food to keep healing up). I think by removing or severely limiting the potion replenish mechanic it forces you to plan ahead more cautiously like in previous Witcher games where if you know you're going up against a particular enemy you craft the potions you need in preparation of the battle, same as applying your oils, A witcher prepares carefully and doesn't hack n' slash their way through everything.


Once again I concede that this isn't going to be an issue for everyone, some people are glad it works the way it does and I can understand that, but I do hope we get a harder difficulty or even a rebalance mod that gives it some TLC.
 
Playing as an Alchemical Geralt now and I say.... hell no, it's the most welcome thing. I'm not going to go around looking for ingredients for every potion, it's impossible to do so in such a gigantic open world and potions, oils, bombs need to be used EXTENSIVELY in my current build, no way in hell I'd play alchemy if I need to replenish potions by going around looking for ingredients that are only found in very specific places, the opposite of that would be having ingredients available everywhere readily, which then becomes meaningless.

I can say that in my current build, you need multiple:
Potions
Bombs
Oils
In almost EVERY fight.

I run around drugged up like mad and throwing bombs and gulping potions, it would be impossible to do if I need to go and look for ingredients after every fight, not to forget that I could end up coming across more foes along the way going back to fetch the ingredients and since builds like this rely on your FORTE and not your sword damage, I'm almost bound to lose unless I dodge a ridiculous amount and try to hit and run.

As for the "problem" of multiple potions, the 2 you can select are just quickslots, for fast access during gameplay, you can drink 10 potions if you want directly from the inventory screen anytime you want.
 
Yeah, they definitely had the right idea streamlining the process. But one type of alcohol is a bit too easy. Perhaps make it so Bombs and Decoctions require a unique type of ingredient each, able to be found or purchased from most shops.
 
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I'm inclined to think it's a lame system too.
A system like in TW1 with ingredients with multiple active principles would have been better. You could have any potions you'd like and combining some ingredients, your potion would have had more effects.
 
I kind of like it because I don't feel like I have to save them due to ingredient scarcity. (This phenomenon is mostly psychological but it's the same reason I end up never using scrolls in DnD games). Now if they didn't pepper the world with infinite hard liquor it would be a better middle ground I think, but I prefer this to witcher 1/2 systems.
 
Less time passed in a boring menu/picking herbs, more time enjoying the game, no, It's a fine mechanic, I don't find it lame at all. Mainstream? yes, the alchemy system lacks "deepness", but the refill mechanics is, in my opinion, all but a lame idea, I hate playing herbs picking simulators.

The system is fine, if anything it's a bit cheaty, it could take more to refill your potions/bombs, but other than that... I remember The Witcher 2, the only difference with the alchemy system then was that I had to spend more time making potions/bombs and that I was carrying a ridiculous amount of them because I hated running out of them, brilliant indeed...
 
Totally agree here. I've gotten to a point where I don't even collect herbs anymore.. I've too much of everything anyway & once you make a potion it's there for good, without needing to gather anymore herbs for it. The potion system needs some balancing, no question.. and oil system too. Maybe in a harder difficulty mode or a permadeath mode they should restrict potions & oils to a (make-only 3 limit) if you have the ingredients/herbs. No replenishing while meditating and once you use them you have to get more ingredients to make another. Wasn't that system in witcher 2 ?
 

Tuco

Forum veteran
I actually love it.

Limited but rechargeable cosumables (i.e. the Estus Flask in Dark Souls is another good example) are a great design choice to offer something that you'll want to use instead of "save for better times" and at the same time discourage compulsive farming, putting a very precise limit to how many items of that kind you'll be able to have at any given moment.

If anything, the only correction to the idea is that I would make most recipes require even less plants and reagents, but make some of these even more rare if not even unique.

There's a lot of talking about "incentives for exploration" for instance, and I couldn't imagine a better incentive to explore some random hidden cave or a very isolate ruin than looking for some unique (or very, very rare, at least) plant/alchemic reagent/mutagen I would need to gather just ONCE.
 
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I am gonna say the alchemy mechanic is not a bad thing but still need a lot of improvement like oils, alcholest and etc. There are no ui to indicate if the oils have been use. I still need to check the inventory for oil. Also w/ overabundance of alcholest w/ loot. Decoction are too OP due they don't have any side effect except for toxicity lvl.

I still think Witcher 2 is the best alchemy mechanic of all i ever played due potion have side effects w/ stats. The negative thing w/ W2 will be you cannot drink pots during battle.
 
Honestly, I'm very fond of this new system. It encourajes people to use their oils, potions and bombs knowing they will always have them for a tougher fight.

The Witcher 1 system was fine, but the maps were small and you could go around collecting herbs without having to worry about much. Things got a bit more complicated in The Witcher 2 where the maps grew larger and having to go out of your way just to collect herbs was becoming an issue. Most people simply ignored Alchemy altogether in TW2 so they wouldn't have to deal with this. I only even bothered with alchemy for the operator bastard.

The Witcher 3 map (and the game itself) is just too big for people to be running about trying to find herbs every time they need a potion, they would end up not using them at all. Someone who plays an alchemy build has nightmares about this.

But having the option (toggled on the options menu) to:

A - Choose if you wanna replenish or not every time you meditate.

B - Needing to find some lesser ingredients when you replenish them (Nothing like a cave troll's liver, arenaria or white gull. Just the most common herbs).
 
Every single potion/bomb/decoction should require one spirit/paste each when refilled, so that there is a point to looting crates or buying ingredients from shops, as one of the problems with TW3 is how filthy rich you can get at a point of the game since you dont need to spend gold on almost nothing.

Make it difficulty level related, like Death March, or an option on the menu that can be changed on the fly or decided before starting a new game.
 
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