Can you agree that Mr. Hands is the most evil and horrible character in Cyberpunk?

[Guest 4719259]

Honestly, I can't even fully grasp the criticisms that have been made in this thread: people are posting about isolated manifestations of evil, whereas I'm trying to describe evil that is systemic. I'm trying to show that the worst components of Hands are that he:

1. An integral part of a system of corporate oppression.
2. A player who has the ability to shuffle the cards at any time, and go outside the boundaries of any corporation, any organization, while remaining a man with clean hands.
3. Tracks all of V's movements since the incident in Kompeki Plaza, weaves an invisible network around V, playing the role of "almost-friend", but actually forcing V to serve his plans.
4. His true nature is not apparent in the game when using methods of simple inference and story analysis.

Hands is no different. The game's CANON is that he is a fixer. The game literally tells you so. Unambiguously. He's a fixer. Yet, you are here claiming he's some hidden top level executive from a corpo. Or, even better, a congressman. All while the game tells you, outright, that he's Wade Bleecker. An ex Petrochem executive who had to go into hiding. Plain and simple.

Quite right. And of course, it's not for me to judge, but maybe it's a flaw in the game )) Well, maybe someone will someday decide to apply practical political science methods to the game, who knows )

(!)
And yes, I apologize: you are a little inattentive. I'm not the one claiming something, above I left a link to an article from cyberpunk.fandom.com Wiki. about the level of security clearance on Colonel Hansen. I'm going to quote now:

"Most of the files on Kurt Hansen's military past were classifed as top secret following the end of the Unification War. Only top Militech execs and certain members of Congress in Washington have clearance to learn just who this former Colonel truly is. He's the man who secured a foothold for the NUSA in Night City as part of Operation "Midnight Storm". The same man who then, after being abanonded by the NUS government at war's end, built from that foothold a new homeland for himself, all financed by smuggling and arms deals on a global scale."

Do you think Hands knows exactly who is his target in Dogstown?
If so, then the fact that Hands is a fixer is not canon of the game, but your personal interpretation of canon.
With all due respect.

He did not, only thanks to Hanako... and Yorinobu who killed him before he have to take a decision
Without her (and Yorinobu), he would have killed every citizens in Night City simply because of the Relic. And I'm sure he would have found a nice (and dead) culprit to point out, like I don't know... Johnny Silverhand.
Arasaka only care about Night City, because it's the only territory in North America they control. That's all. They couldn't care less about people who live in the City (according to him, Westerners are "barbarians")

If a stoned rocker broke into my house and detonated a nuclear bomb, I might also consider members of his culture "barbarians" and want to blow someone up too, who knows?

Especially if all this was happening in the city to which I devoted a huge number of years of my life, and for which I fought a horrendous bloody war with the imperialist NUSA, which cost the lives of my relatives and soldiers.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Honestly, I can't even fully grasp the criticisms that have been made in this thread: people are posting about isolated manifestations of evil, whereas I'm trying to describe evil that is systemic.

Clearly, you are not grasping what Arasaka is.

You want to point at systemic evil - point at Arasaka. They engineered this world and have made every effort to thwart any attempt at bettering it because it would unavoidably mean losing power.

Saburo, through his company, has carefully orchestrated the world to become what it is. Again, that's canon. It's not interpretation. It's the game world. Saburo has been hard at work making this world into a corporate hellscape since 1960.

And, you call the NUSA imperialistic..... you do realize that Saburo is called the "Emperor" by everyone right? He's not actually the emperor of Japan. It's a title that was bestowed on him by people because of his actions and what he's done through his company and throughout his life. He is, for all intents and purposes, an emperor with power in various governments/organization (including NC) acquired through subversiveness, diplomacy and military might. The very definition of imperialism.

I want to be clear here, the NUSA is imperialistic but so is Arasaka and Arasaka is playing on a whole different level.

Saburo, and by extension the Arasaka coporation and family, has been considered the main villain in this game world since it's creation in 1988 for a reason.

(!)
And yes, I apologize: you are a little inattentive. I'm not the one claiming something, above I left a link to an article from cyberpunk.fandom.com Wiki. about the level of security clearance on Colonel Hansen. I'm going to quote now:

"Most of the files on Kurt Hansen's military past were classifed as top secret following the end of the Unification War. Only top Militech execs and certain members of Congress in Washington have clearance to learn just who this former Colonel truly is. He's the man who secured a foothold for the NUSA in Night City as part of Operation "Midnight Storm". The same man who then, after being abanonded by the NUS government at war's end, built from that foothold a new homeland for himself, all financed by smuggling and arms deals on a global scale."

Do you think Hands knows exactly who is his target in Dogstown?
If so, then the fact that Hands is a fixer is not canon of the game, but your personal interpretation of canon.
With all due respect.

I saw your post before, I wasn't "inattentive". I think you're reading way too much into it and it flies in the face of what the game establishes.

Hansen's file was classified after the Unification war. Which ended in 2070. Seven years prior to the game. You find it more likely that a top executive, or a congressman, willingly put themselves in harm's way for years than it is that a fixer did what a fixer does? Gathering information, organizing ops, finding the right people for the right job, having the right contacts, etc. That's their job.

That means finding ways of getting access to information that is otherwise inaccessible. The Relic, the flathead, your team, etc.. all of this Dexter DeShawn didn't magically spawn into reality. He put in the legwork to get the info and organize the op. It's literally what fixers do. It's their role in the game world.

Hansen has been hanging in Dogtown for seven years. In your mind it's impossible that who he is/was got out during those seven years because Militech classified his record? Leaks, bribes, disloyal employees, disgruntled employees, drunk employees! Or drunk Hansen! That's what fixers do. They find a way to get the necessary information/people/gear to get a job done. Because, ultimately, NUSA/Militech classifying who Hansen is, is only classifying it within NUSA/Militech. If someone else out there knows and decides to yap about it, it's now out there.

You think none of that is more likely than Hands being some top level Militech exec or a member of Congress? A member of congress putting themselves in harm's way for years - that -, to you, is more likely than a fixer doing what fixers canonically do?

 

[DjSpyder]

What confuses me a little.... Is that you keep talking a lot about Systemic Corporate Oppression, The evils of the NUSA and Militech.... But seem to almost be an Arasaka Apologist...In this thread and other threads you seem to be taking the stance that Araska are actually the good guys. When everything about CP lore is SCREAMING loudly they both as a family and a Corp are the bad guys. Going all the way back to the original Table Top RPG and subsequent books, and Edgerunners. Surely if a corporation is responsible for the most "evil" or "Systemic Oppression" Araska has to be the wort offender of all no?

Edit: I hope that didn't come off more combative or accusatory than intended.... I just meant we should be holding Arasaka to the same standards as all the other players and by most metrics they seem a bit "Worse" if there is such a thing in this games universe.

 

[ShowManyArt]

Well, I hope your trip was successful and enjoyable )
You know, I wouldn't call this thread a requested topic - Rather, it was just time to talk about Hands a little more seriously than a simple fixer.
Regarding "gray areas" - yes, of course, discussing a character like Hands will inevitably lead to gray areas - he is too well protected by both the story and the game itself to be able to make logically consistent accusations against him.
Regarding "evil" - I stand by my opinion, organizations like the FIA and Militech are far more evil than sadists and psychopaths. Those are isolated, while this is a systemic, self-sustaining and structured evil.
(Yes, please note that my position is closer here to Silverhand's point of view with his fight against corpo-tyranny, our voices unexpectedly overlap, even though I don't like him )
But I am not imposing my opinion on anyone. Maybe someday there will be more people on the forum who think like me.

P.S. Categorically disagree with your perception of Arasaka! )) A noble Japanese family and Colonel Hansen are the two walls that keep our beloved Night City from being taken over by the sinister NUSA corpo-empire led by the insidious Rosalind Mayers!
It was the aircraft carrier Arasaka that foiled the FIA's operation to invade Pacifica back in the day. Take Arasaka out of the equation and Night City is defenseless...

It was a nice trip thank you very much

I agree that Hands might be the fixer with the most mysterious agenda, I think every fixers has their own shady little secrets though. And some are way more ruthless in their approach or way less smart than Hands.

I fail to see how Jotaro could be considered as an isolated psychopath, given his VERY POWERFUL rank among the Tiger Claws which is a gang literally sponsored by Arasaka. He his very much a representation of the systemic, oppressive, self-sustained and structured evil and his sadistic and psychopathic tendencies made him a well-known menace. You seems to take very lightly that the gangs (and especially the Tiger Claws given their link with Arasaka) are well-structured organisations capable of the most horrible of things without any worries. I agree their reach is usually not as big as the great corps, but in the case of this specific gang, Arasaka itself is backing them up.

Wooodman is part of this system too given his place at Clouds.

And Fingers is not so isolated, with his role as a doc for sex workers, he gets his "patients" from every parts of the streets. He is a spider and he has contacts in Clouds (which is a Tiger Claws business). Let's not forget that his building is protected when we visit him.

And the scavs are an international running hydra operation with multiple heads that are absolutely a systemic, organized and structured evil.

The only difference with big corps is that the laters are showing a façade of responsable business to the public. They are just another types of gangs. The "shiny" ones. But if you look through these, you will find some dark stuff indeed. They may have more public reach than the gangs, but they are all well organized structures without morals.

So I join your point of view against the big corps, but I think you need to reevaluate the damages made by the gangs, which are, for some, at least as powerful as some big corpo.

And I am sorry dude, but you will NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS convince me that Arasaka are the good guys a company that storage your engram in a hellish stasis after making you sign a contract that relinquish every propriety of your own soul ?! This is called the "Devil" ending for a reason !

 

[Guest 4719259]

It was a nice trip thank you very much

I agree that Hands might be the fixer with the most mysterious agenda, I think every fixers has their own shady little secrets though. And some are way more ruthless in their approach or way less smart than Hands.

I fail to see how Jotaro could be considered as an isolated psychopath, given his VERY POWERFUL rank among the Tiger Claws which is a gang literally sponsored by Arasaka. He his very much a representation of the systemic, oppressive, self-sustained and structured evil and his sadistic and psychopathic tendencies made him a well-known menace. You seems to take very lightly that the gangs (and especially the Tiger Claws given their link with Arasaka) are well-structured organisations capable of the most horrible of things without any worries. I agree their reach is usually not as big as the great corps, but in the case of this specific gang, Arasaka itself is backing them up.

Wooodman is part of this system too given his place at Clouds.

And Fingers is not so isolated, with his role as a doc for sex workers, he gets his "patients" from every parts of the streets. He is a spider and he has contacts in Clouds (which is a Tiger Claws business). Let's not forget that his building is protected when we visit him.

And the scavs are an international running hydra operation with multiple heads that are absolutely a systemic, organized and structured evil.

The only difference with big corps is that the laters are showing a façade of responsable business to the public. They are just another types of gangs. The "shiny" ones. But if you look through these, you will find some dark stuff indeed. They may have more public reach than the gangs, but they are all well organized structures without morals.

So I join your point of view against the big corps, but I think you need to reevaluate the damages made by the gangs, which are, for some, at least as powerful as some big corpo.

And I am sorry dude, but you will NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS convince me that Arasaka are the good guys a company that storage your engram in a hellish stasis after making you sign a contract that relinquish every propriety of your own soul ?! This is called the "Devil" ending for a reason !

Well, you also could never convince me that drug-addled rockers blowing up corporate towers downtown are as good or even better than the Arasaka.


Again: Arasaka is good not based on what they do. Arasaka is good because it's a kinda wall separating independent Night City from encroachment by Militech and the NUSA. Take away Arasaka and the city is defenseless.
Arasaka, whatever it is, is the key to the balance of power, it's the counterbalancing element in the game.


Regarding street gangs and their violence:
First of all, well, what can I personally do? We're presented with a game where pretty much everyone is a criminal and lives a life of violence, starting with V.
Cyberpunk is definitely not a story about morals and moraly oriented behavior.
Secondly - yes, Night City needs a certain "cleaning up of the area", which needs to be enforced by harsh and possibly authoritarian methods.
The point is that trying to solve the problems associated with street psychopaths on a single level is doomed to failure. Efforts by individuals, such as fixers like Regina, do not produce sustainable results. This is what Padre says in particular in his famous dialog with V - that one scumbag removed from the streets is immediately replaced by another.
Actually, this is another reason why I started a thread about Colonel Hansen. You see where I'm going with this?

What confuses me a little.... Is that you keep talking a lot about Systemic Corporate Oppression, The evils of the NUSA and Militech.... But seem to almost be an Arasaka Apologist...In this thread and other threads you seem to be taking the stance that Araska are actually the good guys. When everything about CP lore is SCREAMING loudly they both as a family and a Corp are the bad guys. Going all the way back to the original Table Top RPG and subsequent books, and Edgerunners. Surely if a corporation is responsible for the most "evil" or "Systemic Oppression" Araska has to be the wort offender of all no?

Edit: I hope that didn't come off more combative or accusatory than intended.... I just meant we should be holding Arasaka to the same standards as all the other players and by most metrics they seem a bit "Worse" if there is such a thing in this games universe.

It's just love )) I love Hanako, just don't tell anyone about it, ok?
And what is love? Love is committing crimes together.
When someone you love kills a random punk, you silently pick up a shovel and help bury the corpses in the garden at night, by moonlight..

Clearly, you are not grasping what Arasaka is.

But without Arasaka Night City just wouldn't exist. ))
Or it would have been destroyed by Mayers or Elizabeth Kress in pursuit of personal or corporate power, that's what it's all about.

I saw your post before, I wasn't "inattentive". I think you're reading way too much into it and it flies in the face of what the game establishes.

Hansen's file was classified after the Unification war. Which ended in 2070. Seven years prior to the game. You find it more likely that a top executive, or a congressman, willingly put themselves in harm's way for years than it is that a fixer did what a fixer does? Gathering information, organizing ops, finding the right people for the right job, having the right contacts, etc. That's their job.

That means finding ways of getting access to information that is otherwise inaccessible. The Relic, the flathead, your team, etc.. all of this Dexter DeShawn didn't magically spawn into reality. He put in the legwork to get the info and organize the op. It's literally what fixers do. It's their role in the game world.

There are many points of contention in your reasoning. As I said, this is not the lore of the game, but rather your personal perception of it.
It was a mistake to assume, for example, that Hands sat all 7 years in Dogstown uninterrupted. No, the datacards from the Heavy Hearts Club indicate that he arrived at the club shortly before the events of Phantom Liberty, and requires heightened security measures for himself.
Or this: "Hansen's file was classified after the Unification war" - Not a reliable fact. He had been in the business before.

But anyway: the amount of evidence I've gathered, I think, is just enough to show that Hands is far from the average fixer that many people think he is. I have not yet seen any fixer in the game who can operate the intelligence network of the FIA, and even acting with someone else's hands.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is the press conference over?

Guys, I'd like to say that discussing Arasaka here (as well as my personal immoral attachment to certain high-born Japanese women) is, purely technically, off-topic. If , for ex., someone creates a thread like "Why some naive users still love Arasaka", this could all be discussed there. I'll join the discussion.

This topic is about Mr. Hands.

 

[GrimReaper801]

There are many points of contention in your reasoning. As I said, this is not the lore of the game, but rather your personal perception of it.
It was a mistake to assume, for example, that Hands sat all 7 years in Dogstown uninterrupted. No, the datacards from the Heavy Hearts Club indicate that he arrived at the club shortly before the events of Phantom Liberty, and requires heightened security measures for himself.

I never said anything about seven years in Dogtown uninterrupted. I said harm's way for years. One does not become a well known and respected fixer in NC overnight.

I'm going to keep this short because that next bit tells me everything I need to know.

Or this: "Hansen's file was classified after the Unification war" - Not a reliable fact. He had been in the business before.

So when -you- quote the database to support your theory that Hands is a top Militech exec or a congressman, it's reliable. But when someone else uses database against your argument it is now unreliable. Or at least, specific parts are not reliable.

You should have told us you get to pick and choose when, how and which part of the database is reliable and factual. Would've made things much simpler.

 

[DjSpyder]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is the press conference over?

Guys, I'd like to say that discussing Arasaka here (as well as my personal immoral attachment to certain high-born Japanese women) is, purely technically, off-topic. If , for ex., someone creates a thread like "Why some naive users still love Arasaka", this could all be discussed there. I'll join the discussion.

This topic is about Mr. Hands.

Except that by saying "Can you agree that MR. Hands is the most evil and horrible character in cyberpunk" you open the door for comparison. The title of this thread literally invites people to pose alternatives if they do not agree. And it seems that several people disagree you also opened the door for the direct comparison to Arasaka by mentioning how NUSA and Militech contribute to "Systemic Corporate Oppression" which again, Arasaka is arguably the most oppressive Corp, Plus everything that comes with their use of Soulkiller.

But moving on from that, Let's assume NUSA is the bigger threat to global safety, or to that of Night City. Wouldn't Myers be the most evil? considering how eager she seems to Weaponize Song Bird's connection to the blackwall? Or what about the Voodoo Boys, they seem to believe that the end of man is coming and that A.I. will soon rule the world, and instead of standing by their fellow humans, maybe try to prevent it, they decided to "Get on the Winning Side" by crossing the blackwall and having their digital selves become A.I., Betraying all of humanity in the hopes of avoiding the digital apocalypse seems pretty high on the evil list.

I've already made my feelings on the Scavs, and Wraiths known, Same for Fingers, Forest, Jotaro etc...

Point is, With so much evil in the world of CP2077, there is probably no definitive answer to the question of the "Biggest" or "Worst" evil.... but I doubt many would agree with you assessment that Hands is the worst.

 

[R001c]

Maybe Night City itself is the most evil character in the game. If the NUSA took it from Arasaka would it be any different? Maybe some areas would rise and some would fall. Same thing for people. Oh maybe there would be some colour changes, a few different noises out of your radio and a slightly different mix of fixers maybe but, there would be an NUSA counter intel department, the same amount of street kids and most Nomads would still hate it.
You can kill all the 'scavs', 'Jotaros', 'Woodman's as you like there is always another to take their place. Everyone has their secrets and relationships cross boundaries in some very strange ways. You rarely have all the information you need to make the decisions you face free of doubt or without compromise. Can you really be a 'good guy' in Night City. You can try but more often than not there's a lot of 'justified homicidal maniac' involved.
I am very much looking forward to playing the next instalments of this game. It's going to be interesting to see who still has a chair when the music finally stops and what they did to get it.

 

[Guest 4719259]

So when -you- quote the database to support your theory that Hands is a top Militech exec or a congressman, it's reliable. But when someone else uses database against your argument it is now unreliable. Or at least, specific parts are not reliable.

My theory is not that Hands is a member of Congress or a Militech staffer. My theory is that Hands finds a place for himself outside the staff definitions of all these organizations (including the FIA), but enjoys all the benefits of corporations, accumulates resources for his own purposes as long as it is profitable for him, and leaves them (preferably without a trace) when the time is right. The implementation of such a strategy is the highest embodiment of the concept of "Gray Cardinal" - subjugate, control from behind, use in your own interests. Not be tied to anyone. Act with someone else's hands, at the right moment leave without leaving a trace.
That's the theory, but the practical implementation of this plan is obvious: Hands is the only character in the Cyberpunk world (which is supposedly dark and hopeless for everyone) who never suffers in any way. He is absolutely protected in the game, including by his legend. Difficulties with Hansen's extermination are of a working nature, and only V can prevent Hansen's elimination, and only in one game ending (and even then most likely temporarily). The world of Cyberpunk is a warm and cozy nest for Hands. He enjoys all its possibilities without receiving any punishment.
Who Hands really is, I don't know. I can only describe the phenomenon I'm observing.
And in Hands, I see a phenomenon that goes beyond the level of any corpo in the game.

You should have told us you get to pick and choose when, how and which part of the database is reliable and factual. Would've made things much simpler.

There are two types of material in an article: text and attached files. Yes, the text of the article states that Hansen's file was classified after the unification war, but it only mentions Militech/NUSA and their data operations.. (with no mention of the FIA).
While the attached file is titled "The FIA's file on Kurt Hansen" (the same blue sheet I posted above). There's no date on it, but I was under the impression that the FIA had been tracking Hansen since he entered the military academy.

You, reading the article, apparently assume that the entire body of material refers to the same Hansen's file - the same document.
I assumed that at first, but after reading the article on the FIA (another section of the encyclopedia), I discovered the following:

"FIA agents now conduct intelligence operations around the world, loyally and discreetly pursuing the NUSA's political objectives. The weekly reports that President Myers receives from the FIA's leadership provide her with invaluable knowledge of the plans and actions of foreign governments and multinational corporations, and even a few influential private individuals. Skeptics say that the FIA serves Myers mainly as a secret weapon in her political games against Militech. The reality? Only the FIA knows."

which allowed me to make the assumption that Militech and FIA, to put it mildly, aren't always friendly to each other and may have different databases and do not always share intel. Thus, Militech may have one dossier on Hansen and the FIA another. Which one Hands uses, and in what part that I don't know.

At this stage, no instructions from me on how exactly to read and interpret the Wiki article will follow. You're on your own.

P.S. Thanks for mentioning that ambiguous point, I was going to leave it out initially.

Except that by saying "Can you agree that MR. Hands is the most evil and horrible character in cyberpunk" you open the door for comparison. The title of this thread literally invites people to pose alternatives if they do not agree. And it seems that several people disagree you also opened the door for the direct comparison to Arasaka by mentioning how NUSA and Militech contribute to "Systemic Corporate Oppression" which again, Arasaka is arguably the most oppressive Corp, Plus everything that comes with their use of Soulkiller.

But moving on from that, Let's assume NUSA is the bigger threat to global safety, or to that of Night City. Wouldn't Myers be the most evil? considering how eager she seems to Weaponize Song Bird's connection to the blackwall? Or what about the Voodoo Boys, they seem to believe that the end of man is coming and that A.I. will soon rule the world, and instead of standing by their fellow humans, maybe try to prevent it, they decided to "Get on the Winning Side" by crossing the blackwall and having their digital selves become A.I., Betraying all of humanity in the hopes of avoiding the digital apocalypse seems pretty high on the evil list.

I've already made my feelings on the Scavs, and Wraiths known, Same for Fingers, Forest, Jotaro etc...

Point is, With so much evil in the world of CP2077, there is probably no definitive answer to the question of the "Biggest" or "Worst" evil.... but I doubt many would agree with you assessment that Hands is the worst.

Compared to Hands, Myers looks like just a manager with broad credentials. Myers does not have the opportunity to get away with many of the crimes she committed; Hands does. Myer's signature is on too many documents; no one has seen Hands' signature. Myers gave direct and unambiguous orders to numerous staffers-Hands only offered to do the work for hire. If the NUSA falls, Myers will be destroyed, she is too attached to the state structures; Hands will erase the data about himself, and disappear, and then find himself in the new social structures that have arisen in place of the destroyed empire. With a new face, with a new name, with new IDs. Myers will either get killed, end up in jail, or get (accidentally) involved in a disaster (well, roughly the similar Songbird gave her). Hands (well, he'll call himself something else) will be drinking champagne..

Voodoo boys are an even more complicated subject than Hands. I don't think anyone at all has tried to summarize all the data on them and generalize, believe me, there would be wonderful discoveries there. I'm a little curious because different voodoo boyz say different things, but I won't be doing that. That's an activity generally for dedicated Cyberpunk fans, and I'll be off to play Elden Ring and Dragon Age soon enough.

 

[GrimReaper801]

*snip*

Now you're flip flopping on your own previous words. Plus, you get to choose what is, or not, reliable and factual! Or you ignore what you have no answer to.

It's become abundantly clear to me that this thread, and likely your other threads, are not about discussing your theories with the community. You are talking at the community. Despite literally no one agreeing with you here, and from what I've seen, every other theory of yours, you keep telling everyone how correct you are.

You do you but I have no interest in this as it is ultimately pointless for anyone to say anything.

 

[Guest 4719259]

Now you're flip flopping on your own previous words. Plus, you get to choose what is, or not, reliable and factual! Or you ignore what you have no answer to.

It's become abundantly clear to me that this thread, and likely your other threads, are not about discussing your theories with the community. You are talking at the community. Despite literally no one agreeing with you here, and from what I've seen, every other theory of yours, you keep telling everyone how correct you are.

You do you but I have no interest in this as it is ultimately pointless for anyone to say anything.

I congratulate you, you're actually getting personal.

I'm not going to pique your interest in anything I've said. After all, where's the problem here? If you don't like my posts, you don't read them, that's all. I just don't understand why it is necessary to announce it somehow loudly, making about a dozen posts in different threads? Is someone forcing you to do something?

Well, let's try to understand what's going on nevertheless:
First of all, I don't think you are the voice of the "community". At least I haven't seen anywhere on the forum that you have been authorized to do so - correct me if I'm wrong.
Secondly, actually why should you speak to me, or why should I respond to you personally? The topic was created really for the public, or rather for that part of it, which is able to perceive new ideas. At the moment the topic has not been accepted unambiguously, but it does not mean that there will never be people who can calmly and unbiasedly express their own concepts, albeit different from mine.
By the way, as usual, you allow yourself to be inaccurate here: there is NO ONE in the thread who agrees with me 100% - but that doesn't mean that no one has found rational grains in the concept.
Thirdly, I am not trying to earn anyone's approval on the forum, or create a certain image. I am simply presenting my thoughts as I see fit. In that sense, yes, I am addressing an audience, and what's wrong with that? If the audience doesn't like it, the topic simply goes down in the forum and lies there until better times.

The conception "flip flopping on your own previous words" I don't get it at all, to be honest. I really don't understand what confused you - personally, I'm trying to figure out who Mr. Hands is, and I'm forced to use only indirect descriptive methods, as the game doesn't give a direct answer to the question I'm interested in. The thread is what I created so that I (and possibly other users) can understand it better. So far there is no complete clarity. But this is not a reason to accuse anyone of intellectual failure, EVEN IF it's just that the attempt so far has not yielded results.

Yes, I apologize: you are trying to give me some kind of characterization - I can't answer you in the same way, unfortunately (although I also understood quite a lot about you during our "communication"), something prevents me all the time. Education, maybe? I don't know.
Anyway, the topic is not about you or me.
Well, or rather create a thread dedicated to openly discussing me personally if you can't handle the urge. We'll have a press conference and I'll answer questions online - as long as I can. But If you can't wait to say something right to my face - should you do it right here? There are other ways, after all, just find them.
Anyway, I wish you more positivity in your life. Have a nice day.

 

[Draconifors]

All right, I will put a stop to that line of discussion before it gets unpleasant. If you want to continue, please take it to PMs and not a public thread (even a separate one).

If you -- anyone reading this thread -- plan to post here, or in any thread on the forums, please focus on posts rather than posters.

• Don't like someone's style of posting or the content they post? That's fine.
• Comment on someone's thread or post because you don't like its style or content? That's fine, provided you run afoul of no forum rules.
• Comment on someone because you don't like their style of posting or the content they post? That's likely not fine.

 

[Lysergian]

The informant telling the FIA about Konpeki wasn't T-bug, look at their codename. O-1257? L, E, and G are the 12th,5th and 7th letters of the alphabet. The informant was Dex's bodyguard Oleg.


Also maybe nobody is "most evil" because everyone with any real power in 2077 deserve their own circle of hell?

Arasaka? Look at like, anything they did during the 4th corpo war and yeah you have a good argument for 'most evil'.

Militech/NUSA/Myers? Almost the same as Arasaka, just pick from their extensive list of war crimes and other crimes against humanity and the earth itself. Also they were mean to songbird.

I've seen people say before in YouTube video and on reddit that the Europeans are arguably the only "good guys" in the CP world. Which is true, if you ignore them obliterating cities like Colorado Springs by dropping rocks from the moon with their mass driver.


The USSR is weird because there aren't any humans "in power" after they gave control over to their new AI overlord. On the other hand AI have a pretty bad history when it comes to not turning out to be evil.

I could go on but i think "most evil" is a silly label in a world where once someone comes into power they seem to pick the hobby of committing crimes against nature and humanity like their collecting and comparing baseball cards lol

 

[andy0091]

I would say Hands is no different than any behind the scenes political figure pulling strings

 

[SpookyFX]

"Can you agree that Mr. Hands is the most evil and horrible character in Cyberpunk?"
No, clearly not and never will so...

Well I would certainly hope that is right as I sold him the data from quest shot by two sides!

 

[Guest 4719259]

Honestly, quite a surprise to me that this thread has reopened.
Well, the initial assumption turned out to be correct - since it is interesting, the more people and polar viewpoints, the better (for the game).

 

[mightymatt27]

I've been passively following... mmmmm, say about 64% of this convo. During that time I've maintained my opinion regarding the question "Can you agree Mr. Hands is the most evil and horrible character?"... w/o waivering once. I have several example of people I feel are more evil.

How.
Ever.

Now that I view the Phantom Liberty anniversary video where the very talented Alex Jordan transitions Mr Hand's voice into what sounds British; I've put all my previous feelings and thoughts aside. Hands is totally evil.

 

[Guest 4719259]

I've been passively following... mmmmm, say about 64% of this convo. During that time I've maintained my opinion regarding the question "Can you agree Mr. Hands is the most evil and horrible character?"... w/o waivering once. I have several example of people I feel are more evil.

How.
Ever.

Now that I view the Phantom Liberty anniversary video where the very talented Alex Jordan transitions Mr Hand's voice into what sounds British; I've put all my previous feelings and thoughts aside. Hands is totally evil.

I'm actually a bit sorry that the topic has caused so much bias. I would have liked a more constructive discussion, I would have said many more interesting things. Now though...I don't even know if there's any point in writing anything here. Well, partly my fault of course - I created a topic with a clickbait title, and I should have been calmer and more modest...well, as it turned out, so it turned out. I leave this topic at the discretion of the forum audience.

 

[mightymatt27]

Yeah, I was gonna comment in the anniversary thread but it didn't feel quite right, and then I was all "Duuuuuuude, my choom Avalon whatever-guns started an evil Hands thread. that's perf!"

Did not realize it ended... part of the 35% I had NOT scanned .

 

[Guest 4719259]

Yeah, I was gonna comment in the anniversary thread but it didn't feel quite right, and then I was all "Duuuuuuude, my choom Avalon whatever-guns started an evil Hands thread. that's perf!"

Did not realize it ended... part of the 35% I had NOT scanned .

You know...I've disappointed a lot of people in my life.
I personally think it's karma. Although sometimes I feel ashamed, honestly ))

But that's okay! You can always start a new topic )