CDPR, stop with the 1st person (explained)

[Reaper290897]

Hard disagree.

Why would it make more sense to be situationally aware of everything around you in the Witcher than in CP2077? Especially as of 2.0 where enemies now use far more grenades, have actual abilities to zip around the battlefield and are more inclined to act as a unit (flanking, using cover, etc) than they ever were?

There is a LOT more happening in CP2077(2.0)'s fights than there was in TW3. Far more. Sure, there are more "swarming" enemies (like drowners) that will attack you from the rear but a simple HUD notification/indicator to reflect a witcher's heightened senses could achieve that just fine.

Again, it would add a weight and viscerality to combat that third person could never achieves. You would actually have to look at what is happening around you instead of just spinning your mouse around. Being actively aware of what is happening and how your enemies are moving and shifting your own position accordingly would feel far more immersive to me..

It Witcher things teleport, enemies attack at the same time, dodging is a huge aspect and seeing what's around you is a game changer. In CP yes there is a lot happening but primarily it's a shooter

You say it would add weight, I think it would 100% take away from the game to the point it would just feel like Skyrim, in 3rd you still have to look and be aware of what's around you, I can live with CP being 1st even if I feel 3rd could have been an option even if it was a toggle but 1st for Witcher would I feel 1000% destroy the game and frankly ruin it

 

[GrimReaper801]

It Witcher things teleport, enemies attack at the same time, dodging is a huge aspect and seeing what's around you is a game changer. In CP yes there is a lot happening but primarily it's a shooter

Describing CP2077 as primarily just a shooter is the same as describing TW3 as primarily just a third person hack n' slash.

You say in TW3 enemies (some) can teleport, which is true but in CP2077 they can super-speed their way across the same distances in a second. There is no difference here.

Enemies attacking you at the same time - I don't know about you but my enemies in CP2077's all attack at the same time. Both in melee and in range.

Dodging is also a big aspect of CP2077 if you go melee. Dodging is a big aspect of melee period. It's not the game, it's how you fight that determines whether dodging is a big part of your game or not.

You say seeing what's around you is a game changer but that works both ways. Not constantly seeing around you is a game changer. To you, it's a negative, to me it's a positive. It means I have to actively to keep an eye on things, I can't just let the camera do most of the work for me. Just like an actual person would have to. That is far more immersive to me. That's where that feeling of viscerality and weight comes from.

You say it would add weight, I think it would 100% take away from the game to the point it would just feel like Skyrim, in 3rd you still have to look and be aware of what's around you, I can live with CP being 1st even if I feel 3rd could have been an option even if it was a toggle but 1st for Witcher would I feel 1000% destroy the game and frankly ruin it

I didn't touch on your Skyrim comparison in your previous post because @cartlidge, @LeKill3rFou and I already touched on that but since you're bringing it up again...

Simply put, no, it would not feel like Skyrim at all. Skyrim feels the way it does because Bethesda does both perspective to please as many people as possible but that ultimately culminates in both perspectives feeling lesser than they could ever be if they had focused on really making one of them great.

CDPR has proven they can do both melee and range in first person and make it stand out - it would never feel like Skyrim.

 

[Reaper290897]

Frankly dude nothing you could say could change my mind that making 1st out of Witcher would actually ruin it and it would just be just like Skyrim

Super speed isn't the same as literal teleportation, yes enemies attack you all at once in CP but how they attack how your character reacts and how it plays is incredibly different, dodging in CP is also pointless, you can play the entire game without dodging same doesn't apply to Witcher.

In a game like Witcher seeing all around you is a positive, almost a requirement, in CP it isn't.

If you want a 1st person of Witcher just play Skyrim, the perspective, the gameplay, the feel, Witcher would lose its quality and just be Skyrim, you say CDPR has proven what they can do and your right they have, they've proven that they can take full advantage of 1st and 3rd but that doesn't change the fact them making Witcher 1st would essentially make it compariable to skyrim

 

[LeKill3rFou]

If you want a 1st person of Witcher just play Skyrim, the perspective, the gameplay, the feel, Witcher would lose its quality and just be Skyrim, you say CDPR has proven what they can do and your right they have, they've proven that they can take full advantage of 1st and 3rd but that doesn't change the fact them making Witcher 1st would essentially make it compariable to skyrim

No, I have to disagree...
Because as some of us previously said, Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general), rather failed to offer good perspective whatever the one you want because they tried to do both. If CDPR decide to do The Witcher 3 (or the next Witcher game) in first person with the same level of quality as Cyberpunk, it will be awesome and nothing to do with Skyrim.

From my experience, it's rather impossible to achieve both in the same game. If you compare The Witcher 3 to Skyrim, third person view in Skyrim is wonky. If you compare Cyberpunk to Skyrim, the first person view in Skyrim is wonky.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Frankly dude nothing you could say could change my mind that making 1st out of Witcher would actually ruin it and it would just be just like Skyrim

Super speed isn't the same as literal teleportation, yes enemies attack you all at once in CP but how they attack how your character reacts and how it plays is incredibly different, dodging in CP is also pointless, you can play the entire game without dodging same doesn't apply to Witcher.

In a game like Witcher seeing all around you is a positive, almost a requirement, in CP it isn't.

If you want a 1st person of Witcher just play Skyrim, the perspective, the gameplay, the feel, Witcher would lose its quality and just be Skyrim, you say CDPR has proven what they can do and your right they have, they've proven that they can take full advantage of 1st and 3rd but that doesn't change the fact them making Witcher 1st would essentially make it compariable to skyrim

Well you've played a very, very different Skyrim than most have played then lol.

Outside of the fantasy setting and both games having melee combat/magic (although very different), they are nothing alike. If you truly think a camera perspective is all that truly differentiate these two games then there is really nothing to be said here.

You are also right that CDPR has proven that they can take full advantage of both perspective but making a truly great first person perspective that works for narrative purposes, ranged combat purposes, melee combat purposes and, I would argue to a lesser extent, driving purposes is a much more difficult achievement than a third person perspective and the end result is oh so satisfying.

 

[gregski]

I remember back in 2012 when CP2077 was announced I was like - that's gonna be great, The Witcher but in Cyberpunk world.

Later when they announced that Cyberpunk will be 1st person only - most importantly because of the immersion factor - I was like - nooo, why go for FPP, that won't work, how is immersion going to be better in FPP than in TPP!!??

And later, when I finally played Cyberpunk in FPP - I understood what they meant and never looked back. The combat, dialogue scenes but first and foremost - the immersion factor - works so well in FPP. They knew what they were doing all along.

 

[GrimReaper801]

I remember back in 2012 when CP2077 was announced I was like - that's gonna be great, The Witcher but in Cyberpunk world.

Later when they announced that Cyberpunk will be 1st person only - most importantly because of the immersion factor - I was like - nooo, why go for FPP, that won't work, how is immersion going to be better in FPP than in TPP!!??

And later, when I finally played Cyberpunk in FPP - I understood what they meant and never looked back. The combat, dialogue scenes but first and foremost - the immersion factor - works so well in FPP. They knew what they were doing all along.

I barely followed development, the setting and the fact it was CDPR was enough for me to be interested in this game.

I had no clue it was gonna be purely FP until I actually got the game and I genuinely felt exactly like that. I was sure they had just ruined everything. Then I actually got to playing and it just friggin' worked. Everything came together really, really well. I felt far more immersed in the first person perspective than I ever did. CDPR really nailed it and they've only improved on it with 2.0 and PL.

I'm finding myself wishing for more first person games than third person games these days... Hell, I used to travel in third person in Bethesda games and fight in first person yet I find myself largely just sticking to first person in Starfield.

CDPR kind of ruined third person for me. First person can be so much more immersive if done right. There are just very few studios doing it right.

 

[tavellone]

I'd prefer a game to have 3rd person. I admit that the 1st person in Cyberpunk is well done, but at the very least they can have your character actually appear in reflections and have proper mirrors instead of the nonsense that they had in Cyberpunk.

 

[gregski]

I barely followed development, the setting and the fact it was CDPR was enough for me to be interested in this game.

I had no clue it was gonna be purely FP until I actually got the game and I genuinely felt exactly like that. I was sure they had just ruined everything. Then I actually got to playing and it just friggin' worked. Everything came together really, really well. I felt far more immersed in the first person perspective than I ever did. CDPR really nailed it and they've only improved on it with 2.0 and PL.

I'm finding myself wishing for more first person games than third person games these days... Hell, I used to travel in third person in Bethesda games and fight in first person yet I find myself largely just sticking to first person in Starfield.

CDPR kind ruined third person for me. First person can be so much more immersive if done right. There are just very few studios doing it right.

I was very worried about FPP combat. "So far they've never done FPP combat, just TPP with limited weaponry types in TW3".

Well, it turns out they actually managed to create a full blown FPS combat system, on par with multiplayer FPS games focusing.

 

[GrimReaper801]

I was very worried about FPP combat. "So far they've never done FPP combat, just TPP with limited weaponry types in TW3".

Well, it turns out they actually managed to create a full blown FPS combat system, on par with multiplayer FPS games focusing.

Agreed, I would even go a step further and say that, in my opinion at least, they have done it far better than many of those. Even better than long running series that have had multiple games to perfect the formula yet none came close to this. *cough* COD *cough*

Their very first attempt at first person is a resounding success.

As a side note ... I was expecting this thread to get closed as soon as a moderator noticed it. Like all the other third person threads.

Jokes asides, it's great this one is allowed to go on. For now anyway.

 

[Reaper290897]

All jokes asides, it's great this one is allowed to go on. For now anyway.

See how long it lasts, won't lie surprised it's lasted as well, regardless though you have given me a whole new nightmare suggesting Witcher in 1st, like I said cdpr has done very well with 1st but it's still not perfect and like I said make some aspects pointless.

As for the comment about camera perspective, it does change the games because it changed the perspective, moment, action, mechanics and look of the game, part of what makes playing Witcher fun is seeing how Geralt moves while fighting, even in CP melee combat isn't exactly the greatest, but as a whole don't think you and I are ever going to agree on this

However if they ever do make a Witcher 1st person, won't lie will lose my... well you know the saying

 

[koalahugs]

I really hope they stick with 1st person perspective for Orion. For me it’s the eye contact. I can’t get over how big of a difference the eye contact makes during various cinematic moments in the game.

That being said, could they at least add a few more opportunities for 3rd person cutscenes here and there? I think it’s a question of balance. With CP77 it’s just the very end (which, IMO, was impactful due to its novelty… but the novelty has worn off now). Going forward, they could easily mark just a few other key points in the story with 3rd person cinematics. E.g. marking the transition between acts.

In other words, continue with 1st person, continue with 1st person cinematics, etc. as they‘ve already been doing, but instead of only having a 3rd person cutscene at the end of the epilogue, you could also have one at the start of the prologue; end of prologue/start of Act 1; end of Act 1/start of Act 2; etc. But again, and I cannot stress this enough, keep the general experience 1st person. Seeing the 3rd person cinematic at the end of the epilogue didn’t take that experience away from me, but it was a welcome break.

Again, I’m saying this as a PRO 1st person “let’s keep this 1st person” fan. I have to stress that, because I know some people are going to misinterpret what I’m saying as if it’s a threat to 1st person but, again again again, I’m saying let’s keep it 1st person and let’s continue with the 1st person cinematics, but I’m very open to the addition of a few extra 3rd person cutscenes in the story, where it cleanly fits into the narrative structure.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Again, I’m saying this as a PRO 1st person “let’s keep this 1st person” fan. I have to stress that, because I know some people are going to misinterpret what I’m saying as if it’s a threat to 1st person but, again again again, I’m saying let’s keep it 1st person and let’s continue with the 1st person cinematics, but I’m very open to the addition of a few extra 3rd person cutscenes in the story, where it cleanly fits into the narrative structure.

Vade retro first person hater!!!
Joke aside, I'm not against as long as it does not impact the quality of the first person view and above all, as long as it's optional
I won't say it will "break my immersion", overused and make no sense, but I will find weird to be able to see my character from "outside" while I'm playing in first person (but that's matter of taste^^).

That's exactly my issue with Starfield.. Why the hell they include third person view randomly? While I play in first person only... (like when siting or even with my ship, landing in third person... Why? Did I not select the first person? So odd...


Edit : The discussion I had with Alex, around a drink about Reed fate at the end of Phantom Liberty... It was outstanding! Her look was worth all the words in the world... So well done

 

[pickupblack]

What’s the problem with doing it in 1st person and 3rd person and switching between them if necessary?

 

[koalahugs]

Joke aside, I'm not against as long as it does not impact the quality of the first person view and above all, as long as it's optional
I won't say it will "break my immersion", overused and make no sense, but I will find weird to be able to see my character from "outside" while I'm playing in first person (but that's matter of taste^^).

Well, the third person cutscenes at the end of CP77 have zero affect on your 1st person experience. They’re also not optional. So not sure what the problem would be. I wasn’t saying anything about changing the 1st person experience - actually made it ultra clear I was saying the opposite.

 

[IndifferentEmpathy]

no, please no 3rd person, the entire game, city, cinematics etc will not feel immersive at all

Ah yes because with path tracing etc. your character being vampire without any reflection anywhere is very immersive.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Well, the third person cutscenes at the end of CP77 have zero affect on your 1st person experience. They’re also not optional. So not sure what the problem would be. I wasn’t saying anything about changing the 1st person experience - actually made it ultra clear I was saying the opposite.

Yes, but it's at the very end... In theory, you're not suppose to play after it, the credits roll and that all. Not really the same as if it's right in the middle of playing sequences.
But that's just my "tastes", for example, if we had a third person cinematic in the landfill seeing V wake up, I (it's just me) will find it quite odd.

Ah yes because with path tracing etc. your character being vampire without any reflection anywhere is very immersive.

It could be a "thing".
I keep an eye on that since Cyberpunk release, but I don't remember playing a game in first person and being able to see my character reflexion (but I didn't play all games released since. So... but from my experience, it's not that common anyway).

 

[cartlidge]

What’s the problem with doing it in 1st person and 3rd person and switching between them if necessary?

Pawel explains it here but when designing the game, everything is carefully crafted to 1st person

 

[koalahugs]

Yes, but it's at the very end... In theory, you're not suppose to play after it, the credits roll and that all. Not really the same as if it's right in the middle of playing sequences.
But that's just my "tastes", for example, if we had a third person cinematic in the landfill seeing V wake up, I (it's just me) will find it quite odd.

Right, but i’m not talking about changing CP77 am I? I’m talking about Orion. We have zero idea what the story will be and how things will flow. I’m also not talking about having a 3rd person cutscene that’s “interchangeable“ with a 1st person cutscene in the ”middle” of a scene you’re supposed to experience in 1st person.. Absolutely not suggesting that at all.

You rightfully point out how the 3rd person cutscenes at the end of CP77 are not disruptive to the first person experience. Well, let’s keep that as the goal. Because what I’m trying to say - and this really requires some imagination and an open mind - is that it’s possible they can achieve non-disruptive 3rd person cutscenes in Orion at more points in the story other than just the very end. But obviously it depends on the story and how things flow. In any case I wouldn’t assume the narrative structure and flow of Orion will be identical to CP77.

(Again, disclaimer for anyone reading this who missed my earlier post - I’m pro let’s-keep-CP-1st-person-for-the-most-part)

Another thing worth thinking about though, that no one ever seems to mention, is what first person even means in a CP universe? In a world where you can watch a braindance, or look through the eyes of someone else or a camera, how does that open things up creatively? Just something to think about.

 

[Guest 4707847]

Aagh nooo!, to me 3rd person is a video game.
1st person is an experience like you are behind the eyeballs of the character you are controlling, makes the game more immersive as an escape from RL.
Tried 3rd person quite a lot of times over the years of gaming in many games on Amiga/PS1/Ninendo 64/PS2 and then PC (upgrade after upgrade ad-infinitum) .. 3rd person never grabs me immersively as much as 1st person does.
And Cyberpunk is so inclusive of a lot of old cyberpunk like games ideas, its an immersive world to be relished.
Its a subjective topic, I sort of like 3rd person in No Man's Sky currently, and I dont know why to be honest.
But CP2077, the only time I switch to 3rd person is when driving, if I don't then the cars I drive quickly turn into bent heaps a scrap merchant would turn his nose up at.
Bikes I stay in 1st person, they are brilliant to drive around NC nipping in-between the traffic.
Maybe if I played as a female then I might try 3rd person to watch her lovely butt bounce, but only briefly