Concerns about fast travel

[username_2064020]

Concerns about fast travel

With the rumors running around I couldn't help but notice this bullet point:

- Fast travel: instantly revisit any discovered location

Now, I'm very hostile to instant, omni-present fast travel in general, but I'm a bit in hurry right now and I won't start an argument about why it shouldn't be in any decent, respectable RPG, or why alternate systems (moongates like in Ultima, teleport gates, teleport runes like in Gothic/Risen) are infinitely preferable.
Maybe in my next replies.

That said, I really would like to implore CD Projekt RED, if they really want to go down for that road, to *at least* design the whole game pretending instant teleport wasn't in.
Why? Because it's not actually "optional" as people pretend it to be. It usually has a huge impact on pacing and quest designing.
That's exactly why you have games like Skyrim that forces you to travel huge distances for the most trivial bullshit ("deliver this wooden spoon to the toothless granny on the other side of this continent"), because they take fast travel for granted so they don't bother giving content a decent distribution in space or a good pacing.


P.S. Added a poll just for the sake of it, even if I don't tend to trust "popular response" too much.

 

[cyberarmy.603]

But it is optional... Never used it once in Skyrim, RDR or any other open world game. Just get on your horse and enjoy the scenery...
And i dont really think it will have any impact on quest design, do you really believe CDPR will add trivial FedEx quests just because Elder Scrolls game had them??

 

[username_2064020]

But it is optional... Never used it once in Skyrim,

No, it ISN'T, because everything is designed around it and the annoying all-knowing compass.
And I'm glad you're a masochist, but Skyrim becomes simply *unbearable* played without fast travel.

 

[Username.]

Fast travel is probably the main reason why Bethesda's games are so fucking dull, I say no fast travel.

 

[Aver]

Instead of fast travel they could make traveling interesting...

 

[Ifrit30]

Well it's supposed to be 30x bigger than Witcher 2 (an 20% bigger than skyrim) and it should take 30-40 minutes by horse to get from one end to the other, so it's really reasonable to add a fast travel function.

But I really can't say if would be good or bad without it, so I chose the teleport gates.

 

[username_2064020]

Well it's supposed to be 30x bigger than Witcher 2 (an 20% bigger than skyrim) and it should take 30-40 minutes by horse to get from one end to the other, so it's really reasonable to add a fast travel function.

Yeah, except we aren't talking about making a huge game with no fast travel at all (even if that's an option in the poll).
We are talking about the unlimited fast travel vs a more limited and carefully designed one (i.e. teleport gates or runes).

EDIT: nevermind, just read your edit.

 

[MarcAuron]

Angry Joe was the first one to ask about it.
If it's after discovering a location, no trains, plains, cariages, boats and and other stuff , maybe just via specific teleporting spots, it could be bearable.
The idea however of getting on my horse, oppening a map an clicking on a location , is somehow weirding me out curently.

Depending how they do it, we somewhat fast traveled in Witcher 1 so it may be doable, it may be interesting if it's related to specific locations and NPC's.

 

[Aver]

There are 3 zones in TW3 - Skiellge, Novigrad and No Man's Land. So they could add some way to fast travel to each one. This way it would take only around 10 min to get anywhere you want.

 

[dragonbird]

If they don't include fast travel, you get people like me complaining about having to spend 40 minutes looking at a horse's bum before you can get somewhere.

I don't think that fast travel causes poor game design, it's just that a fair number of games combine the two, by thinking that "cross the world three times for some pointless reason" is a good quest.

 

[Hargen]

I have nothing against well made fast travel, like Silt Striders or the mages guild in Morrowind, or even Crystals Portal like in Dragon Dogma, is even good for the imersion we have ways in a magical world to fast travel between some places.

Trish used it in The Witcher 2(in a short way without help passage from out side direct to her room, and from a far distance using crystals to help), so is very possible and very much acceptable some kind of "short and long Portal", and carriage as fast travel.

 

[niymiae]

I don't think that fast travel causes poor game design

Instant, unlimited fast travel allows poor game design.
Which is just as bad.

 

[goopit]

Portals from Witcher 1? Carriages from RDR? What about asking Triss or Ciri to teleport you?

 

[cyberarmy.603]

Instant, unlimited fast travel allows poor game design.
Which is just as bad.

You can limit yourself by not using it.
Makes me sad people just put Bethesda and CPDR on the same level of writing just because of this...

 

[Perkel]

If they don't include fast travel, you get people like me complaining about having to spend 40 minutes looking at a horse's bum before you can get somewhere.

I don't think that fast travel causes poor game design, it's just that a fair number of games combine the two, by thinking that "cross the world three times for some pointless reason" is a good quest.

Lack of instant fast travel =/= 40 minutes of watching your horse ass.

Instant fast travel not by any means makes game design worse. But when it is a main feature game will be produced around it and developers will make mistakes.
Just include DARK mode where Fast travel is switched off and i will be happy. But make the game with people who don't use IFT in mind.

Just like QTE in TW2. You could switch off QTE and still you must do Keyran fight with QTE.

 

[niymiae]

You can limit yourself by not using it.

This does not prevent the chance to have poor design due to the fast travel
If i do not use it and find myself looking at my horse ass for 40 mins, well..

 

[Chewin3]

If they implement a certain way in the lore to fast travel from a certain point to another, I'd he quite glad to have it present. After all, it will get a bit tiresome having to travel the same location for 20 minutes or more simply b/c I forgot a shiny armor in a certain village or having to pick a flower from the top of a mountain that lies on the other side of the map.

Not saying they have to include fast travel option through a lore perspective, but personally it does remove from the game experience. Though I disagree that instant travel is a poor game design. It's the way it is presented along with the quest system.

 

[username_2064020]

You can limit yourself by not using it.

 

[username_3627198]

I don't mind fast travel, but it needs to be implemented in such a way that it doesn't ruin immersion or reduce the world to a football field in size.

I'd like to be able to walk up to a carriage driver in town and pay him to take me to a distant (major) location that I had previously discovered by foot. Only to towns and cities, though, as it wouldn't make sense for him to drive to the middle of nowhere.

- Settle the deal, see a short in-game cinematic of you leaving town on the carriage or what ever transport it may be.
- Load screen with an image of the new location.
- Arrival, with another short in-game cinematic of you arriving at the new place.
- Ride / Walk on to the place you were headed in the wilderness.

Also, in-game time needs to be adjusted based on where you travel. So if I go from one end of the map to another, a few hours or even days should have passed.

Edit:

There's something vital to bear in mind here. When you design a game, you can't just hand out instant gratification to people. That works in the short run, and makes people happy for a moment, as their game gets easier to beat.
What you get, though, in the long run, is the World of Warcraft-effect, where flying mounts have taken away all exploration and immersion from the world.
A lot of people now wish they were gone, but it's too late for Blizzard to remove them as others have come to take them for granted.

Same thing with Elder Scrolls. Fast travelling everywhere reduces the world's size, and eventually you find yourself only teleporting everywhere. Along with your increased rate of teleporting, there's also an increased sense of boredom.

This is also why Blizzard decided to scrap the idea of the Nephalem Cube in Diablo 3 - an item that would let you sell anything without going into town. Yes, it would have made the game more convenient, and yes a lot of people moaned about its removal in the beta. However, you need to punish the players a little bit in order for the rewards to feel rewarding when they do come.

 

[dragonbird]

If they implement a certain way in the lore to fast travel from a certain point to another, I'd he quite glad to have it present. After all, it will get a bit tiresome having to travel the same location for 20 minutes or more simply b/c I forgot a shiny armor in a certain village or having to pick a flower from the top of a mountain that lies on the other side of the map.

Not saying they have to include fast travel option through a lore perspective, but personally it does remove from the game experience. Though I disagree that instant travel is a poor game design. It's the way it is presented along with the quest system.

That's pretty much what I think too.
On my first playthrough, I'd prefer not to use fast travel. If I'm travelling from A to B, then what I would HOPE to see en route are villages being plagued with monsters, ambushes, dangerous swamps, casual meetings with NPC's, the occasional sidetrack into some catacombs that one of those NPCs mention. All of the things that make the journey as enjoyable as the arrival. That's good game design.

But if, when I get to B, I find I need to go back to A again, I may be in a hurry because I'm now doing main quest and it's urgent. So if I have a choice between a 30 minute real-time horseride or paying a friendly local mage for access to a transporter, I may decide to take the latter option. And if this is my 10th playthrough, the scenery and these minor sidequests may not be of that much interest in either direction. I don't want to speedrun my first playthrough, but I want to be ABLE to speedrun later if I want to.