Controversy in gaming

[braindancer12]

Controversy in gaming

Video games are no stranger to controversy. Our beloved medium has been blamed for everything from violence to obesity, but the controversy I want to talk about today isn’t of that sort. Sure, we could go on about how even though Manhunt is visceral and gory, it doesn’t necessarily cause people to commit real acts of violence, or about how the Hot Coffee Mod for GTA San Andreas was hardly shocking in a game involving gang shootings and drug dealing, but that’s a well that has long run dry. Despite the fact that games have a deeper impact due to their interactive nature, certain studies show that they can have the opposite effect. Comparable acts of violence or sex in books and films have been a part of our culture for centuries, and video games don’t have any profound effect on a person more than any other medium would. What I want to talk about today relates to that, in a way: that is, the ability to relate our medium to others and the role that controversy plays in that relation.

Are games ready to tackle mature themes? I don’t mean violence or murder (they’ve got that down to a tee), I mean things like hard drug addiction, rape, sexual abuse or psychological disorders.

This is where games like Cyberpunk 2077 which have mature content are key, and I for one hope that mature games will be released in all its uncomfortable and controversial glory, be it good or bad, because the medium of gaming needs games like this to break the mold to allow gaming to stand up on its own against the other storytelling giants. We have an advantage: we’re interactive. Games can pull you in harder and faster than any book or films simply due to the fact that you have an input, and once developers utilize this fully for storytelling purposes, gaming can and will be recognized as a legitimate medium.

So whats your opinion about controversy in games?

 

[Garrison72]

Yes, they are, even if developers have to drag fans and game critics kicking and screaming into deeper waters. This is why CDPR is the perfect team for Cyberpunk; they won't shy away from the stuff you mentioned. I'd be surprised if it wasn't in there.

 

[gregski]

First of all, is this post about controversy or about mature things in gaming? Because I don't see a clear relation between the two notions, while you mix them up freely in your post.

Are games ready to tackle mature themes? I don’t mean violence or murder (they’ve got that down to a tee), I mean things like hard drug addiction, rape, sexual abuse or psychological disorders.

I am baffled. Why when mentioning mature themes you mention things like hard drug addiction, rape, sexual abuse or psychological disorders? Maybe they are examples of CONTROVERSIAL themes, but mature? A game would never earn the right to be called mature just by showing things you mentioned, especially considering how shallow approach most games tend to have towards such issues. And a game or any other medium can be called mature even if it doesn't deal with issues as drugs, rape etc. There are far more important criteria to so called "maturity" of a medium or piece of art than just how difficult or controversial content is there.

This is where games like Cyberpunk 2077 which have mature content are key, and I for one hope that mature games will be released in all its uncomfortable and controversial glory, be it good or bad, because the medium of gaming needs games like this to break the mold to allow gaming to stand up on its own against the other storytelling giants. We have an advantage: we’re interactive. Games can pull you in harder and faster than any book or films simply due to the fact that you have an input, and once developers utilize this fully for storytelling purposes, gaming can and will be recognized as a legitimate medium.

So whats your opinion about controversy in games?

Again, you talk about mature content and in the end you ask about controversy. How is all that related, as I still can't wrap my mind around the relation you are trying to imply.

I know CDPR will not pull the brakes on dealing with difficult social issues of today, showing them through 2077 lenses. I know they won't censor any sexual content, won't go the politically correct way. What I hope is that they won't force any controversial themes to their game just to fake maturity but they will rather concentrate on making those themes organic to the world and treated with enough attention and good writing.

 

[d1am0ndback]

I remember Manhunt and love that game. Video games have the opposite effect for me, its wanting to do things you can't do in real life without repercussion. Its a release from the stress.

When tackling things such as rape I'm reminded of a quest in New Vegas with a sniper who was raped by a Raider. She didn't talk about being raped and you could tell that she had gone through some kind of trauma. It made me want to go out there and find the rapist and bring her back his head.

With CD Projekt Red, I'm not worried at all about this game. It's in good hands.

 

[Decatonkeil]

I remember Manhunt and love that game. Video games have the opposite effect for me, its wanting to do things you can't do in real life without repercussion. Its a release from the stress.

When tackling things such as rape I'm reminded of a quest in New Vegas with a sniper who was raped by a Raider. She didn't talk about being raped and you could tell that she had gone through some kind of trauma. It made me want to go out there and find the rapist and bring her back his head.

With CD Projekt Red, I'm not worried at all about this game. It's in good hands.

Where did the 'rape thing' in New Vegas end? Did it end with you killing the rapist? Because then wouldn't those examples (violence in manhunt as a stress reliever and the rape one) be two of the shallow type that slimgrin mentioned?

Now, the "without repercussion" thingie... it's okay in some games, of course! It's okay to have games that are "adult only" so that healthy adults can have fun with that fantasy, but that's not the right mindset when making a "MATURE game". It would be somewhat of a failure not having the player weigh the decissions, not regret the bad ones, etc.

 

[braindancer12]

I am baffled. Why when mentioning mature themes you mention things like hard drug addiction, rape, sexual abuse or psychological disorders? Maybe they are examples of CONTROVERSIAL themes, but mature? A game would never earn the right to be called mature just by showing things you mentioned, especially considering how shallow approach most games tend to have towards such issues. And a game or any other medium can be called mature even if it doesn't deal with issues as drugs, rape etc. There are far more important criteria to so called "maturity" of a medium or piece of art than just how difficult or controversial content is there.

I am talking about games like Spec Ops. Spec Ops: The Line gives us a harrowing insight into the effects of extreme post-traumatic stress disorder, under the guise of a run of the mill first person shooter. It tackles topics like civilian casualties, the morality of war and the validity of avenging one’s friends, all in a subtle and extremely powerful way. Walker’s descent into madness as he starts to question everything around him parallels the player’s feelings of doubt, both in their actions and in the validity of the world around them. The visuals are stellar, and the gameplay workable, though a tad mundane, but this serves to illustrate the game’s purpose further, as it critiques the player for becoming desensitized to war and violence and for committing atrocities because “that’s what you do in games.” This is an example of how games can not only stand up to media like books or films in delivering on mature content, but can exceed them through their interactive nature which can engage a player far more than a reader or viewer – this is the same interactive nature for which games are panned in the news for causing violence.

 

[dragonbird]

I am talking about games like Spec Ops. Spec Ops: The Line gives us a harrowing insight into the effects of extreme post-traumatic stress disorder, under the guise of a run of the mill first person shooter. It tackles topics like civilian casualties, the morality of war and the validity of avenging one’s friends, all in a subtle and extremely powerful way. Walker’s descent into madness as he starts to question everything around him parallels the player’s feelings of doubt, both in their actions and in the validity of the world around them. The visuals are stellar, and the gameplay workable, though a tad mundane, but this serves to illustrate the game’s purpose further, as it critiques the player for becoming desensitized to war and violence and for committing atrocities because “that’s what you do in games.” This is an example of how games can not only stand up to media like books or films in delivering on mature content, but can exceed them through their interactive nature which can engage a player far more than a reader or viewer – this is the same interactive nature for which games are panned in the news for causing violence.

This I'd agree with, and are good examples of the way that such subjects can be handled in games.

Now, the "without repercussion" thingie... it's okay in some games, of course! It's okay to have games that are "adult only" so that healthy adults can have fun with that fantasy

I'm not honestly sure how portraying subjects such as rape without repercussion, as a way for people to "have fun", can ever be described as either mature or adult.

I'd also agree with gregski that "controversial"=/'="mature". Making a game that's deliberately intended to be controversial isn't the same as making a mature game. There's a place for controversy in games, and they shouldn't shy away from it, but if it becomes a major theme in a game, you have to wonder what the purpose is. Is it really "mature", or a dubious marketing strategy, or a way of pushing a political-correctness theme at players?

 

[Sardukhar]

Postal and it's sequels. "Controversial", sure. "Mature"? Not particularly.

 

[wisdom000]

Rape really doesn't have any place in video games. I am not saying it can't be done with maturity, I am saying there is no reason to include it. Rape as a subject isn't fun, and for far too many people it is far to triggering of real life memories. It's something deeply personal and traumatizing, and I cannot see any real justification for inclusion into a game. You can allude to it as a past event, as long you keep it vague, but in a medium already painted so heavily with misogyny (in some cases deservedly so), its simply not fuel I want added to that fire.

Even if it could be added in a tasteful and respectful manner, it's very inclusion would be off-putting enough that it would be a deal breaker for many... and why would any developer want to alienate their audience in such a manner, for something so completely unnecessary?

 

[d1am0ndback]

I am talking about games like Spec Ops. Spec Ops: The Line gives us a harrowing insight into the effects of extreme post-traumatic stress disorder, under the guise of a run of the mill first person shooter. It tackles topics like civilian casualties, the morality of war and the validity of avenging one’s friends, all in a subtle and extremely powerful way. Walker’s descent into madness as he starts to question everything around him parallels the player’s feelings of doubt, both in their actions and in the validity of the world around them. The visuals are stellar, and the gameplay workable, though a tad mundane, but this serves to illustrate the game’s purpose further, as it critiques the player for becoming desensitized to war and violence and for committing atrocities because “that’s what you do in games.” This is an example of how games can not only stand up to media like books or films in delivering on mature content, but can exceed them through their interactive nature which can engage a player far more than a reader or viewer – this is the same interactive nature for which games are panned in the news for causing violence.

That sounds dope, that is war. Inglorious. It is the Heart of Darkness. Exactly what Cyberpunk is, saving yourself. Nobody wins. Killing someone shouldn't make you rich, unless you get paid for it. I'm actually thinking of getting Spec Ops: The Line right now just to get into that mindset. Thank you braindancer12.

 

[Sunder]

While I do agree that rape isn't something that one should look forward to as content in a video game, I will never understand the hypocrisy. How many games have murder/killing in them? I'd say that counts as something traumatizing.

Granted, the victims of murder can't exactly complain about what happened to them and ask that it not be included in video games.

Witcher 2 had a bit of rape in it. Both in the beginning of the game and later on. Nothing shoved in your face, of course, and all part of the setting/story, so it wasn't just rape for the sake of shock value or anything like it. All subject matter can be handled quite well provided you're not putting them into your game just so you can say "we got that in our game".

 

[dragonbird]

Rape really doesn't have any place in video games. I am not saying it can't be done with maturity, I am saying there is no reason to include it. Rape as a subject isn't fun, and for far too many people it is far to triggering of real life memories. It's something deeply personal and traumatizing, and I cannot see any real justification for inclusion into a game. You can allude to it as a past event, as long you keep it vague, but in a medium already painted so heavily with misogyny (in some cases deservedly so), its simply not fuel I want added to that fire.

Even if it could be added in a tasteful and respectful manner, it's very inclusion would be off-putting enough that it would be a deal breaker for many... and why would any developer want to alienate their audience in such a manner, for something so completely unnecessary?

Rape exists in The Witcher, and I don't recally it being especially controversial compared to, say, the sex cards. There were consequences. The important thing is that it WAS kept vague - you don't get to see anything much, you don't get graphic descriptions. There's a line between "depicting a dark world" and "voyeurism", and they kept very safely on the right side of that line.

^Ninja'd

 

[d1am0ndback]

Most people like me hate rapists, so if say perhaps there was a rape happening in front of you in the game what would the player do? My avatar would put rippers through all the rapists, on the other side though you have players who would just watch or even worse want to participate. Those are the sick people of the World, exactly the type of people that live in this type of dystopian future. So I wouldn't add that at all just even thinking about it. Maybe you can stop a gang from doing that before they threaten to do it, other than that it would be controversial but not benefitting the overall story.

 

[Overdosing]

Witcher 2 had a bit of rape in it. Both in the beginning of the game and later on. Nothing shoved in your face, of course, and all part of the setting/story, so it wasn't just rape for the sake of shock value or anything like it. All subject matter can be handled quite well provided you're not putting them into your game just so you can say "we got that in our game".

Exactly. The Witcher 2's instances of rape weren't just there to be there. They are used for emphasizing and give more visual way for the story.

 

[Decatonkeil]

Of course rape hasn't got a place... as an action the player can have the character he or she controls do. It can be a subject to dig into only if done maturely (I wasn't including it in the "set of fantasies" which did in turn include "chop someone's head", go figure XD). I'm okay with having a character be a victim of rape... even the main one. The manga Berserk does this last thing rather well (I haven't yet read past the 5th volume and I know there's more of that, I don't know how tastefully or distastefully it tackles those other instances, no spoilers please), having the victim be a male and not making of him a subject of ridicule or anything (there's this mentality in some media that "rape has a place as an additive penalty for jailed criminals", it's even used as a recurring gag in some "comedies", and that's horrible). So, well, there's some degree of violent vengeance fulfilled towards the rapist but there's a little more to it than that... what I'm intrigued about is how a videogame could tackle this caring about a rape victim and not be able to avenge him or her on any way. It would be mature to have a problem you can't just obliterate with lethal power, because that's how mature people live with their problems, only teenagers (or those who mentally don't get past this stage) think they can solve anything by force.

 

[SystemShock7]

I am talking about games like Spec Ops. Spec Ops: The Line gives us a harrowing insight into the effects of extreme post-traumatic stress disorder, under the guise of a run of the mill first person shooter. It tackles topics like civilian casualties, the morality of war and the validity of avenging one’s friends, all in a subtle and extremely powerful way. .

Yeah... no. Harrowing? Tackles topics? Not even close.

 

[Sardukhar]

I'd say Spec Ops tackled those topics. Flaming those people was not pleasant on my brain. I rarely if ever see that in a video game. As for PTSD, I couldn't comment - I'm unfamiliar with the disorder. The writers did quite a bit of research though.

How would you tackle those topics, System?

 

[SystemShock7]

I can tell you how I wouldn't tackle them, in an FPS video game.

A video game character doing the Desert Storm version of Fight Club hardly constitutes "tackling" shellshock (shellshock being the original term used to describe the trauma of battle, George Carlin has an excellent bit on that, I digress...) and does not give an accurate representation of what shellshock is. I don't know how you can state that the writers did quite a bit of research on anything: if they did, I am sure they found PTSD doesn't really translate well into an action video game.

 

[Xtreme-Void]

I like your thinking TC,
The Witcher is already breaking boundaries, and emerge victorious in doing it.

We need more mature oriented game, but not mature as described as GoW, where violent and sex is the only distinguish things.

I like mature contents as a whole.
Very little game like that, we mature gamers desperately need it.
As game graphically more beauty and realistic, There is a lot of mature gamer than before now.
I believe the market is obvious now.

 

[Sardukhar]

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/...riter--Walt-Williams-Shoots-From-the-Hip.html

"It's a very delicate, very personal issue to discuss and I didn't want to mine someone's personal pain for this. There was research, but not anything that would have felt personally invasive to anyone."

Yeah, they did research.

Denying the quality of the production because it was in a genre you find not to your preference seems specious to me. It's a video game, with shooting. They added in what they felt happens when you shoot people, as can be depicted in that medium. I think they did a good job in terms ofmaking me question my shooting of said people.

Well done, them.