[EPILOGUE] Ending cutscene / cinematic discussion

[daryl]

[EPILOGUE] Ending cutscene / cinematic discussion

Finished the game, and got to say, loved every bit of it! ;D Would just like to discuss the game, or to be more specific, the last cutscene in the game. I had read similiar topics on other sites, read what other people had to say, and I just wanted to voice out my own opinion and see what you guys think of it Right, my two main points are that :- The Grandmaster is actually Alvin.- The assassin in the ending fmv is actually Geralt.Think about it, the grandmaster acts like he knew Geralt for a long time when he first saw him, and said that he had repaid Geralt's debt in Act 5 in the swamp, and this hints that he is talking about when Geralt saved Alvin back in Act 1.Triss mentioned that Alvin might have teleported to another place or time when the elves are fighting in that village in chapter 4. (more below)The Grandmaster did try to change Geralt's mind until the very end in the epilogue, instead of blasting Geralt back to witcher school when Geralt meets him in the final battle.And, the last, and most obvious hint is when Geralt pointed out about the amulet that the Grandmaster wore is similiar to Alvin's, just that it had seen its years. AND, the fact that Geralt mentioned that Jacques might not be the grandmaster's real name.As for how could Geralt be killing himself in the last fmv, read on :My theory is this:During the course of the game, we are told that Geralt was killed by a pitchfork. I don't know about you guys, but i refuse to believe that the freaking white wolf can get killed by an angry mob. It's almost as bad as saying that Geralt died choking on a blueberry. Or a chicken sandwich.So, I think that the person who actually wounded, and almost killed Geralt was actually the Alvin/Grandmaster that was in the future, right before Geralt deals the finishing blow at the last part of the game. (More on that later) This Future Alvin took Assassin Geralt away from the scene afterwards, hence explaining the disappearing body. Now, Geralt don't know who Alvin was at that point, but the fact that Alvin saved Geralt must have put him on Geralt's good book.During the 5 years that continued, Alvin then taught Geralt how to manipulate his dormant witcher powers, and also tell him about the his own ideal, and the coming of the ice age. Geralt must have decided to side with Alvin after hearing these words. Thus, Alvin sent Geralt to the future to kill the King, and Alvin will then teleport assassin Geralt away just before Geralt kills assassin Geralt to the start of the game where he has amnesia. (More on this later as well) Now, why doesn't Alvin just kill the king himself, or send Geralt to assassinate the king there and then? It's because he needs Geralt to die and lose his memory, so he would meet up with the young Alvin in the village in Chapter 1. If Geralt didn't appear, Alvin would have died, and thus his future self will cease to exist. So, what's the point of sending Geralt to the future if Alvin knows Geralt will be killed by Geralt? It was Alvin's one chance, for Geralt to kill the king before the other Geralt kills him. If Geralt was fated to die there, he surely will, but if he managed to kill the king before he dies, the outcome of the battle will change.Think of it like that:Geralt killed the king just before he died. Future Alvin teleports wounded Geralt to start of the game. This leads to the event where Geralt saves Alvin. Forward to the end of the game, where Geralt is about to deal the finishing blow to Alvin. Who appears? The King of the Wild Hunt. (cough Sauron ripoff cough) As you remember, he wanted to take Alvin away. This means that Alvin must had struck a deal with the Wild Hunt to save himself from Geralt before he dies. (Normally, if assassin Geralt fails to kill the king, he will just teleport himself to save the assassin Geralt and take him to the start of the game.) As Alvin knows that the king is dead, he will then appear with his army to take over Temeria . (He can just time travel to that particular point.)HOWEVER, against all odds, Geralt kills the King of the Wild Hunt (Fire spells FTW ;D) and finishes Alvin off before he can do anything. This made history go in a set direction, with the inevitable coming of the ice age if Alvin's prediction was right. And then you see the ending, with Geralt killing the assassin Geralt, who came to kill the king. This time, Alvin wasn't there to save Geralt, and so the infinite time loop ends. Well, this is my take on the story.. What'd you guys think?

 

[segev]

Well i agree with you about alvin being the grand master,but about geralt being the assassin..well i actually think that the 'real' geralt is that assassin,while you were only his clone/reflection that the grand master guy created so you'll help with the plan.why you're the clone?well..it says that you never got to know about your past and the reasons of your resurrection..which don't exist because you're just a clone/reflection of the real geralt,so there was no really any "memory loss" or something..i'll be replying the game anyways maybe ill see something different

 

[daryl]

Hehe, that might be possible, but this means that the clone defeated the real Geralt? I haven't thought of that before, and you do have a point there ;DDo tell me if you find any different/hidden endings, I might replay it and pick Shani instead.. I wish the ending would show more about the other characters though, instead of a fmv that hints on a sequel. ;D

 

[kimm]

About the endig, when Geralt kills the asassin, the assassin dosen't look like Geralt, shame we can't see hes entire head, the assassin might be the clone, illusion, the ydon't have the same face, the check is diffrent, and the assasin (if he's the real Geral) should have been able to kill Geralt easy - since he would know about Geral't cruched leg and hes weakness for leaving his torso open under fights like Berengar says, and peole seems to rember the white hear, and his scars in the face, and other thing about Geralt,and Alvin beeing the Grandmaster, certenly can be.More about Alvin, you belive he went to the future and saw the ice time, and then went to the past to do all this and prevent?Would have been aesier for Alvin/Grandmaster to kill the King himself anytime.A lot of what you say makes sence ;D

 

[daryl]

Thx for your opinion kimm However, I do think that you just contradicted yourself. You said the assassin should be able to kill Geralt easily as he knows about Geralt's leg and weakness, right? But, if he didn't meet Berengar in the first place, how would he know all that? ;D Likewise, because the Geralt that you are controlling met with Berengar, that explains why he is able to defeat the "real" Geralt. Again, this is segev's take on the ending of the story.(This is now according to my theory) As for Alvin, say, he wanted to kill the king in say, Chapter 2 where Geralt is still roaming around Vizima collecting cards . So he raised his army and took over Vizima. Then, who else can kill Geralt? Remember, even Alvin/Grandmaster failed to stop Geralt at the last battle.. (No, you can't argue that Geralt can be killed because he is still level 12 or something ;D) And, knowing Geralt, he will most probably disappear from the kingdom if Alvin sent the entire army after him.Well, hope my explanation helps

 

[visventi]

Alvin = The GrandMaster, that's pretty much what everyone agrees with. As to the assassin, it's NOT Geralt nor any other witcher trained at Kaer Morhen. The only sword technique they learn and master is using a single two-handed sword. The thing Geralt is so supprised about in the outro movie are the assassin's eyes, which suggest the assassin has undergone the same mutations that supposedly only the witchers do. That's the only real good starting point here for creating theories IMO.As to Geralt getting killed by a an agry mob, sadly, it's a fact. It happens at the end of the Witcher Saga (a series Sapkowski's books about the witcher) and the action in the game is a continuation of that story. There are numerous references to events from the Saga within the game - Zoltan's, Dandelion's, Triss', Shani's and other characters (the King of the Hunt included) recollections from the past, and some of the tales that Geralt hears (egg. from the innkeeper in Murky Waters) speak of events that happen in the books.Though, of course, this is fantasy and a fantasy world so anything can happen and many theories can be made and sound plausible .

 

[kimm]

Well, it helps more, thanks, but there is one thing I don't like, it is thath I've played a clone the entire time, that's wierd and.... it's really unfair, but things aren't alwasy as one exspect... But the thing about the real Geralt siding with Alvin/Grandmaster is wierd, I would think that Geralt is a betrayer, he betrays everyone, who can he know the Alvin/Grandmaster's vision about the Ice Time is true, he dremead it, but could be someone who is controlling him, someone who wants chaos, maby someone of the other countries/borders, a higher powerWho do you think Is the "someone" speaking trough Alvin, when he get the heavy and evil voice? -Could it be the Grandmaster.And the King of The Hunt I nerver understand his intension in the game, maby Garelt really died of a wound and was sent to destiny, faith, god or the delvil, and made a pact if some sort to be revived, and he was neded in the real, or didn't belong in the dead world, a trip like that takes about five years,could cause amnesia, but geralt still remembers some things, about weapons, I could also have been brainwashed, or someone gave me a spell to block my mind, if Triss could only read Geralt's mind, could have gotten some real answers there.The King of The Hunt, says I bring chaos and death wherever I go, but there are harsh time, maybe he used me to his own satisfaction.In the end a, witcher is suposed to be a monster slayer, and non-human, wierd he will join Alvin/Grandmaster to destroy many non-humans and innocents, he should not take side, and not youse hes sword.Wierd one never get any real clues/evidence for who I really am,All this are coclutions and things, and theories I can think off, some of it make sense.I've only beaten the game one (almost a day ago), only hope is to play the game a diffrent way, maby I/We discover some more.......................................................................................I'll guess we will never know the real truth unless there comes out "The Contiune" of The Witcher,It must come, are to many things we would like to know, to manny loose ends and question.

 

[romeo_longsword]

I agree that Grandmaster = Alvin.I don't agree that Geralt is a clone of the assassin at the end of the game - Facial feature wise; there are not much similarity between the assassin and Geralt.I find it possible that Geralt could be killed by a pitch folk as well as other common courses people can die from - it's quite naive to worship Geralt as the super hero and take away the realism from this fantasy character.

 

[hjarg]

Mhmh, Grand Master = Alvin. Most likely.But Geralt as an assassin- not likely. As told before, assassin used 2-handed swords, not onehander. Plus, the brief time we saw his face- one thing was clear. No scars. Perhaps it was a hint of a sequel? Besides, you're limiting yourself to Geralt and Order. It could also be that the assassin was part of another political ploy, totally independent of the game's storyline. King Foltest may be a quite popular person... and quite a lot of people would want him dead.

 

[kimm]

I came up with another thing I remeber from the game, somebody says to Geralt that "You can walk In both worlds", and that it has something to do with destiny to awake you, cause you are a decent man and was needed. Lady of The Lake, King of the Wild Hunt, and Leo, maby more, tell you some interesting things about you.Since Alvin/Granmaster wanted to cloned Geralt, would it not be easier to kill Geralt right when he was born ???But...... some things are so unclear :-\ :-\ :-\And one more thing, there are 3 diffrent endings to the game, but WHY is there only one endig movie? -WTF

 

[username_2064772]

If you read the book, you see that only Source (child with special talents, like Cirilla) can save world from Ice Age ) And Alvin is also Source and he is absolutely right in what he tries to explain to witcher And Geralt kills savior of the world in the end. Nice nice ending.

 

[hjarg]

For a saviour of the world, this man was way to pricky! I personally prefer not to be saved by mutant-creating elf-killing (ok, i can live with that actually) murdering scheming asswipe.Plus, there is some Source still left, right?

 

[kimm]

If you read the book, you see that only Source (child with special talents, like Cirilla) can save world from Ice Age ) And Alvin is also Source and he is absolutely right in what he tries to explain to witcher And Geralt kills savior of the world in the end. Nice nice ending.

But how much is the game based upon the book, and as far as I know you will have to kill Alvin/Grandmaster anyway, ither one want to or not, but the ending dosen't say anything about the Ice Age.... :-\Strange ???

 

[username_2064772]

If you read the book, you see that only Source (child with special talents, like Cirilla) can save world from Ice Age ) And Alvin is also Source and he is absolutely right in what he tries to explain to witcher And Geralt kills savior of the world in the end. Nice nice ending.

But how much is the game based upon the book, and as far as I know you will have to kill Alvin/Grandmaster anyway, ither one want to or not, but the ending dosen't say anything about the Ice Age.... :-\Strange ???

Yes, this is strange that you dont have an option to change ending =)

 

[kimm]

If you read the book, you see that only Source (child with special talents, like Cirilla) can save world from Ice Age ) And Alvin is also Source and he is absolutely right in what he tries to explain to witcher And Geralt kills savior of the world in the end. Nice nice ending.

But how much is the game based upon the book, and as far as I know you will have to kill Alvin/Grandmaster anyway, ither one want to or not, but the ending dosen't say anything about the Ice Age.... :-\Strange ???

Yes, this is strange that you dont have an option to change ending =)

But the game has 3 diffrent endings, but not 3 diffrent movie endings, maby the 3 diffrent endig are what Dandelion tells right before end movie :-\I only hope the the continue of thi story goes on to find out about it, and by playin [glow=red,2,300]"Geralt"[/glow], must play him, who else, he are missing a lot of answers ;D

 

[Kendaric]

Alvin = Grandmaster of the order is pretty much a given, especially as the Grandmaster makes several remarks about things you taught Alvin throughout the story.As for the assassin... hard to say who he is. Perhaps someone Geralt saved in the books and recognized when the hood slipped back or a member of one of the two other witcher schools Vesemir mentioned. Even an alternate 'Alvin' could be a possibility...It's a very good ending though as it allows an easy continuation of the story in an expansion or sequel

 

[romeo_longsword]

It's interesting as I though the fight between the assassin and Garalt was that, as strong as Garalt is, I thought the assassin had an upper hand in terms of combat skilld over Garalt.Although my comment leads nowhere in finding out who he is, I think it's fitting if The Witcher II or the expansion would be dealing with these amazing assassins or their guild/cult.But how would you explain on starting as level 1 again?

 

[daryl]

Read all the comments that were posted, and liked it when people have different opinions/versions of the ending. That's another one of the reasons I love this game so much.. The ending makes you guess.. instead of having a totally cliche ending where you catch a glimpse of the evil villain being alive somehow after being defeated by the main hero.. and that's the cue for developers to start spawning rubbish sequels just to rake in more cash..I sincerely hope that whatever sequel/expansion that may be released isn't rushed or made just for the sake of it.. I would rather see this sweet game end right now with a question mark, than a bad sequel raising exclamation marks all around. ;D

 

[solothores]

Some more discussion can also be found in this thread:http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=2920.0

 

[haps.652]

HOWEVER, against all odds, Geralt kills the King of the Wild Hunt (Fire spells FTW ;D)

It is possible to allow the king to take alvin's soul...