we are very much should be know that Rockstars could get away with anything after the whole mess with media about that game Hatred
we are very much should be know that Rockstars could get away with anything after the whole mess with media about that game Hatred
I have the feeling that every character they invented themselves is actually better written, described and used in the narrative than those which they took from the books...
Sometimes I think CDPR would be a whole lot better if they had their own IP with complete artistic freedom. They are obviously better in such situations than in ones in which they have to build on the work of somebody else. Maybe Cyberpunk will reveal their true writing potential. I certainly hope so.
(And of course avid fans have usually much less expecations towards new characters than towards established and fleshed out ones...)
Sometimes I think CDPR would be a whole lot better if they had their own IP with complete artistic freedom. They are obviously better in such situations than in ones in which they have to build on the work of somebody else. Maybe Cyberpunk will reveal their true writing potential. I certainly hope so.
(And of course avid fans have usually much less expecations towards new characters than towards established and fleshed out ones...)
Considering the first dlc will take place in Oxenfurt and Velen before the ending, do you think they will use the opportunity to flesh out the main story? By adding some sidequests regarding the Wild Hunt for example? Especially Eredin and Caranthir desperately need more depth.
I think no. The work state is probably too advanced in order to fix those issues.
That and I feel like in Witcher 3 they felt obligated to touch base with as many characters as possible since this is the last Geralt game. So they stretched themselves quite thin.
Also looking forward to Cyberpunk.
I fear the same, but there is at least some hope. Eredin, Caranthir, Avallac'h and Gheels will be still alive during the dlc, so maybe they will fix some of the problems with the Wild Hunt and Aen Elle.
I hope they use the Oxenfurt/Velen dlc to give Eredin and Caranthir some urgently needed characterization by adding 1-2 Wild Hunt sidemissions.
Preferably they would just scrap the whole dlc and add 10 hours of additional main-content to flesh out the main story, but that's not realistic, so I could live with just a bit more Wild Hunt screentime.
I can't see the expansion packs doing much to the Wild Hunt's characterisation. They're, by definition, not part of the main story even if they take place during it, and feature entirely different conflicts than our main one. Not to mention that it would be extremely disingenuous for CDPR to involve additional meaningful main story content to paid expansions. They are better than that.
The only hope I have for improved handling of Eredin and his cohorts would be in a free Enhanced Edition somewhere down the line. In spite of CDPR's statements to otherwise, I wouldn't count this possibility out just yet.
The only hope I have for improved handling of Eredin and his cohorts would be in a free Enhanced Edition somewhere down the line. In spite of CDPR's statements to otherwise, I wouldn't count this possibility out just yet.
Dude as fan of the series u should hope they create another "meaningful main story content". i'd pay even 60 bucks for it if its worthy enough.
i bought season pass anyway, but even if i didnt. i'd love to pay for it.
I'm sure that you would, but a lot of people would be justifiably angry if you had to pay extra to get a complete experience of the main story. It would be like if EA had charged money for the ending fix for Mass Effect 3. That sort of thing is what is alienating customers from the developers and the exact opposite image from what CDPR wishes to portray with their numerous free DLCs and lack of DRM. If they'd pull a stunt like that they would never again be able to claim that they're on the side of the gamers.
The expansions are pretty clearly smaller stories in their own right, only loosely tied to the main questline, if at all. I don't doubt that they can tell meaningful stories in their own right, but they're not going to present themselves as vital parts of the main story of the main game.
Thank you for writing this. Many forget that the game is playing by Geralt and he's kinda an outsider from Ciris and Eredin's story. He sees what everything happens all around him, but it's hard to understand. They are plenty of lore books that give the player a big deal of information though. And you can ask Ciri many explanations through the game.
But they could squeeze more dialog before fighting the two in the end, instead of throwing Geralt in the fight. But it's more realistic than talking over coffee first I guess. The wild hunt wants to wipe out everything fast NOT to talk.
The entire story in this game is a run from the wild hunt. Playing Ciri you don't have time to "dialog" with Eredin, you have just to run!!
*sigh*...I think the Wild Hunt is what pisses me off the most about the Witcher 3...they were very much bland and didn't feel like a true threat. Sitting down for a chat with Eredin could have been both silly or brilliant depending on the context. I defeated the Wild Hunt's with a wooden sword on my 2nd playthrough on Death March because they simply didn't pose that much of a threat and neither did they feel any difficult to best. CDPR actually stated that at one point they had this big chunk of a questline where Geralt would have been wandering around collecting info on the Hunt and actually managed to infiltrate the Hunt...this would have been brilliant and it's sad they took it out..there could have been several ways to make these guys feel like a true threat:
- Random encounters: you know, when strolling out at night doing your sidequests etc. have some portals open up and WH warriors try to get a jump on you
- Night skies: right in the opening scene that old geezer tells the crowd that the WH rides the sky with every full moon...why wasn't this slotted into the game?? seeing the cavalcade race across the sky like mad...you know...a long shriek or something...just to get those chills down your spine and feeling that you're watched/hunted
- Geralt's nightmares: when Geralt visits Corine Tilly (the Novigrad oneiromancer) he said at one point that he dreamt of Ciri but the rest was just nightmares...this would have been a splendind opportunity to actually touch upon Geralt's memory having been recovered...you know..some sort of a mix in between cutscenes and playable flashbacks showing off Geralt & Yen's abductions, how it actually went down, Geralt's time with the Hunt and basically Eredin appearing in his dream consciously tormenting him just before Geralt wakes up and resumes his dialogue with Corrine
- Eredin, Caranthir, Imlerith, Ge'els dialogue: CDPR could have added more depth to these guys NOT in dialogue bits which included Geralt but in cutscenes that are strictly limited to these guys and how they interact and scheme between themselves to capture Ciri..give them a bit more plotting/strategy ...just flesh them out a bit.
- Kaer Morhen aftermath: get some scenes on the Hunt regrouping..they suffered a bitter defeat even though they were so close to seizing Ciri...I suspect they decided on a plan...not just "you know...let's wait it out..Imlerith, how about you bring us some Kaedweni / Temerian beers when you're back from the sabbath?"
- Ciri: since we've been playing Ciri in flashbacks and stuff, it would have been a great chance for Ciri to tell Geralt about her strife with the Wild Hunt when they sit by the fire in the Isle of Mists...you know...some sort of gameplay/cutscene showing Eredin's plans for her, Ciri violently objecting, Ge'els deciding to step in for her culminating with Ciri's escape from Tir Na Lia and the Wild Hunt's decision to seek-n-destroy...leading them to shift their focus on getting their hands on Geralt & Yen knowing that would draw Ciri out...this would have made things come full circle and feel rounded out
.....and then there's Geralt's closure in the Epilogues...aside from the Bad Ending, the others were just bleahhh....no closure for the poor guy whatsoever...just Ciri, which I actually dig and deeply sympathize with but I played Geralt of Rivia for 3 freakin' games...I've played judge, butcher, asassin, cool headed friend, hunter, spared kings and kingdoms in my decisions, sealed the fates of some kings and other kingdoms...and got a freakin' 2-phrases slideshow....well F me.
- Random encounters: you know, when strolling out at night doing your sidequests etc. have some portals open up and WH warriors try to get a jump on you
- Night skies: right in the opening scene that old geezer tells the crowd that the WH rides the sky with every full moon...why wasn't this slotted into the game?? seeing the cavalcade race across the sky like mad...you know...a long shriek or something...just to get those chills down your spine and feeling that you're watched/hunted
- Geralt's nightmares: when Geralt visits Corine Tilly (the Novigrad oneiromancer) he said at one point that he dreamt of Ciri but the rest was just nightmares...this would have been a splendind opportunity to actually touch upon Geralt's memory having been recovered...you know..some sort of a mix in between cutscenes and playable flashbacks showing off Geralt & Yen's abductions, how it actually went down, Geralt's time with the Hunt and basically Eredin appearing in his dream consciously tormenting him just before Geralt wakes up and resumes his dialogue with Corrine
- Eredin, Caranthir, Imlerith, Ge'els dialogue: CDPR could have added more depth to these guys NOT in dialogue bits which included Geralt but in cutscenes that are strictly limited to these guys and how they interact and scheme between themselves to capture Ciri..give them a bit more plotting/strategy ...just flesh them out a bit.
- Kaer Morhen aftermath: get some scenes on the Hunt regrouping..they suffered a bitter defeat even though they were so close to seizing Ciri...I suspect they decided on a plan...not just "you know...let's wait it out..Imlerith, how about you bring us some Kaedweni / Temerian beers when you're back from the sabbath?"
- Ciri: since we've been playing Ciri in flashbacks and stuff, it would have been a great chance for Ciri to tell Geralt about her strife with the Wild Hunt when they sit by the fire in the Isle of Mists...you know...some sort of gameplay/cutscene showing Eredin's plans for her, Ciri violently objecting, Ge'els deciding to step in for her culminating with Ciri's escape from Tir Na Lia and the Wild Hunt's decision to seek-n-destroy...leading them to shift their focus on getting their hands on Geralt & Yen knowing that would draw Ciri out...this would have made things come full circle and feel rounded out
.....and then there's Geralt's closure in the Epilogues...aside from the Bad Ending, the others were just bleahhh....no closure for the poor guy whatsoever...just Ciri, which I actually dig and deeply sympathize with but I played Geralt of Rivia for 3 freakin' games...I've played judge, butcher, asassin, cool headed friend, hunter, spared kings and kingdoms in my decisions, sealed the fates of some kings and other kingdoms...and got a freakin' 2-phrases slideshow....well F me.
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I think the mistake here is that the title of the thread puts emphasis on quantity, which gives the wrong impression about what the issue with Eredin is. He doesn't need to go on monologues like typical bad villains but the quality of his dialogue definitely could've been better.
Whichever way you look at it, the Wild Hunt is still a bunch of badly written, underwhelming and underdeveloped characters.
Wild Hunt does not need to be developed or overwhelming. There is something menacing in a mysterious enemy whose origins and / or motives you don't fully understand. Remember the 1st meeting with the hologram of Sovereign in Mass Effect? He didn't explain much, he didn't talk much. But he did state that he is beyond a human's comprehension. It's when the devs tried to explain us what they are when they failed.
What I'm saying is, the Wild Hunt is a group of outworldly beings. They come from a place where what we know as 'reason' may be so much different, it'd take pages and pages to develop them. I think that having them remain unknown is a good thing for the game.
What I'm saying is, the Wild Hunt is a group of outworldly beings. They come from a place where what we know as 'reason' may be so much different, it'd take pages and pages to develop them. I think that having them remain unknown is a good thing for the game.
What a sad excuse, sorry. You can hide any bad storytelling behind such arguments, following the mantra "I just don't say anything at all because whatever I'd say would be inconsistent in a second..." Yeah, well done...
And no, the Hunt is no outwordly group beyond comprehension. They are just a bunch of elves living in another world (that functions pretty much the same as ours). And if they are too "complex" to develop in a video game they should have come up with a different villain which is easier and better to explain...
Eredin would've needed more time on screen to develop as a character. While he really can't be a terribly nuanced or sympathetic villain, he could still be a more complex character and his motivations could be clearer. But for that he would need some more screentime. Since he can manifest as a wraith and invade people's dreams that shouldn't be impossible to accomplish. One big missed opportunity is Geralt's time with the Wild Hunt, something that I had hoped Eredin to bring up and use as a psychological weapon against Geralt. He talked to him like a wayward servant in TW1, I don't see why he wouldn't continue with the same attitude in TW3.
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Eredin would've needed more time on screen to develop as a character. While he really can't be a terribly nuanced or sympathetic villain, he could still be a more complex character and his motivations could be clearer. But for that he would need some more screentime. Since he can manifest as a wraith and invade people's dreams that shouldn't be impossible to accomplish. One big missed opportunity is Geralt's time with the Wild Hunt, something that I had hoped Eredin to bring up and use as a psychological weapon against Geralt. He talked to him like a wayward servant in TW1, I don't see why he wouldn't continue with the same attitude in TW3.
I think the game itself is a good proof that the REDs know how to tell a story. So if they didn't involve Eredin in more dialogues, it's not because they are bad storytellers. It's because all the lore behind the Wild Hunt is enough for a player to know what they are.
There is a whole range of grey between black and white. CDPR is best when they can tell their own, smaller stories. It's easier to tell shorter tales that have a clear beginning and end. Developing a complex "saga" is much more difficult, especially if it's based on somebody else's work and you're restricted by video game mechanics.
There are a lot of authors who write good stories that have their flaws as well. This is nothing new. Just because CDPR is known for telling nice stories doesn't mean that they can't fail in certain aspects. And no, the lore is definitely not enough to make them fleshed out enough. Especially since CDPR interpreted them in their own way, pretty different from the books...
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My thoughts exactly. I remember the end of the first game and my final encounter with the King of the Wild Hunt. I hear that ominous voice and recall how he twisted all of my decisions and threw them back in my face in the worst possible way. When I learned who was truly behind that specter, I could only imagine the kind of vicious animal that would be capable of that. I envisioned a madman who revels in playing sadistic mind games and waging psychological warfare. Then I read the books and got a glimpse at the charismatic, but twisted, elf that was both a terror and a fascination for our dear Ciri. I couldn't wait to face off against this guy in the Witcher 3. Sadly all we got was a hulking, doomsday villain who only storms about, looks cool, and spouts one-liners. They were not even good one-liners. It felt like he was just grabbing for whatever cliché catch-phrase that popped into his head at the time. Hell, when he showed up sailing on the Nalfgar, I half expected him to say:
Eredin: Zireal, if you don't get on this boat with me, you'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.
Ciri: No, I'm good thanks.
Caranthir: Master I don't think that quote matches with this situation
Eredin: Hmmm, no it doesn't. Um....give me a minute.
Geralt: Hey...can we start fighting now?
Eredin: No, no, no wait! I've almost got it. Let's see...aha, yes! 'ahem' Oh I get it, I'm supposed to let you on this boat and let you put your finger inside me, then if I...
Everyone: (Jaw-drops).....
Eredin: Oh, dear. Errrmmm....just forget about that. That's...that's not me.
All in all, I can only assume that CDPR ran out of time in writing and developing this giant of a game and couldn't give this villain the attention he deserved. In my book Eredin reserves a worthy place in the missed opportunity folder.
Eredin: Zireal, if you don't get on this boat with me, you'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.
Ciri: No, I'm good thanks.
Caranthir: Master I don't think that quote matches with this situation
Eredin: Hmmm, no it doesn't. Um....give me a minute.
Geralt: Hey...can we start fighting now?
Eredin: No, no, no wait! I've almost got it. Let's see...aha, yes! 'ahem' Oh I get it, I'm supposed to let you on this boat and let you put your finger inside me, then if I...
Everyone: (Jaw-drops).....
Eredin: Oh, dear. Errrmmm....just forget about that. That's...that's not me.
All in all, I can only assume that CDPR ran out of time in writing and developing this giant of a game and couldn't give this villain the attention he deserved. In my book Eredin reserves a worthy place in the missed opportunity folder.