FP VS TP - perspective matters

[xer21]

Log in to Steam and check numbers on people playing FPS games vs. the amount of people playing, oh I don't know, Dark Souls. Now try it on Twitch. How many people are watching CSGO vs. the amount of people watching <insert TPP RPG here>. It's clear as day.

Again, if I had the choice, of course I'd like both to be implemented. Hell, I might even use TPP once in a while to go for a stroll down the street. But I also recognize and understand the absurd amount of work and manpower it would take to implement.

People don't seem to understand that there's a wider world than just THEIR chosen sphere.

What's more immersive than actually BEING your character? That's immersive. Simply watching your character do something from a camera floating above his/her head is a huge disconnection from personal interactivity. They are vastly different vibes entirely.

Apparently zooming way out from your character and seeing smaller scale representations of everything is more immersive.

That said, i understand how the wider field of view can feel more immersive, but the idea that anyone here can just act like there's FACTS about what's more immersive is stupid. Immersion is largely up to the execution of the game, not first or third person perspective.

I actually laughed out loud at that. Pretty good, actually. So now because I think FPP is more immersive, I lack empathy? Amazing.

Tell me more, doc.

i mean there's people here who think the reason that The Last of Us and The Witcher were such great storytelling games is because they were Third person. Not because, you know, their well written with well defined characters and great voice acting. Nope, it was the camera. So i'm not surprised that they think it's a measure of emotional capacity.

For every single animation or movement you see/make in FPP, you now have to create one for your character that matches in the TPP. That is literally twice the work.

For every mechanic that is FPP HUD-based, you now need to find ways to incorporate them in the TPP. Twice the work.

So many things in FPS/FPP games totally break when you introduce a third person view. It's not even remotely simple to implement properly.

Every armchair programmer here really has no clue what goes into design and development. If it was so simple, CD Projekt would just do it. And in a game as large as this, there's a LOT to retrace and rework. this goes beyond even just the animations and interface.

 

[ajiehb]

Precisely this. It is a HUGE undertaking. If all those animations your character does are in a FPP -- imagine how much work it would require to recreate those in the TPP. FPP Animations aren't just a matter of animating an entire body and placing a camera inside the person's head to look at them. They are all specifically designed with hand and gun placement in mind.

Why do you think so many FPS games don't allow you to see the character's feet? Because they aren't even rendered or animated at all in the scene. It's not just as simple as slapping a camera above the head -- it's a massive task.

Your character will be fully animated in cut scenes. Does it say something to you?

 

[xer21]

The first 3 games are FPS, this is a RPG just like Fallout and Elder Scrolls series and they handle TPP.

But they're open world, and your original quote was about open world games, not RPGs. You talked about neediung to see your character interact with the world in an open world game, not an rpg. I gave you concrete examples for why it wasnt at all necessary.


and Fallout and Elder Scrolls play like garbage in third person.

 

[xer21]

Apologies for digressing. I will stay on topic and not respond to @heliontide any more.

@ ing him just to subpost about him still makes you the antagonist here.

 

[Arisa64]

What is this? that is not true at all.

A perspective can't define what's immersive from what's not, playing watching your custom character does it.

 

[Sheeeen]

Your character will be fully animated in cut scenes. Does it say something to you?

It tells me that cut scenes will most likely not take place in real time and be fixed rendered scenes. I don't think you guys are able to understand that it isn't just as simple as slapping a camera above the character. Lots of changes and tweaks need to be made to incorporate it.

 

[heliontide]

So many people here don't know how changing perspective in a tailored perceptive game works.

Just slap a camera above the character's head! Simple /s

Thing is, they already have all the 3rd person animations they need. If you can see yourself waking by a shop in a mirror, that means that your character is already loaded into the game with those animations. Reflections in the shop mirrors are just 2-D mappings onto a flat surface.

If they only did first-person animations, that means that my character's reflection in a mirror will suddenly disappear or stand still if I whip out my gun in FPS.

Why do you think so many FPP games don't have working mirrors? It's really not worth the work involved. Has CDPR officially confirmed working mirrors in the open world setting? Or was it only during that specific scene where she's putting on makeup? That's different -- it'd be a small set of animations that could be controlled and hand crafted. And mirrors typically work in video games as a duplicate render of the scene entirely flipped around.

 

[PaniMauser]

Another motion-sick person to add my voice to the crowd.

Everything about this game seemed like a dream come true, up until closed demo happened and the game appeared to be first person only.

This is actually very cruel - to make such a great game and then turn to people with motion sickness and say 'haha you cannot have it'

Please consider adding third person at least for exploration. You have it for car drives already anyways.

I know you told in interviews already that you made it first person only because you want the game to feel better. And you know what feels better? To be actually able to play the game at all!

 

[Daermon]

This is true? FPS? :/ meh...

 

[Sheeeen]

A perspective can't define what's immersive from what's not, playing watching your custom character does it.

Watching your custom character is not how to be immersed in a game. There are plenty of first person games that are perfectly fine with immersion because of gameplay and story, NOT because you can look at your character. Dying Light, Far Cry, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Metro... I could gladly keep listing games.

 

[xer21]

A perspective can't define what's immersive from what's not, playing watching your custom character does it.

watching your cutom character doesnt define it either. Immersion is 100% subjective. The fact that CD Projekt very clearly disagree on the third person immersion takes here should tell you that you're trying to treat opinions as if they were facts.

You're using your personal truth to argue for everyone else's truth. Don't

 

[DvlFIG]

I would prefer the game offered FPP and TPP, similar to what Skyrim is able to do. I don't mind FPP (although, I wish I could see the customizations I'd be making to my character while playing), not that big of a deal for me but, there are people out there that love the game and will not be able to play it because FPP literally makes them physically sick.

It's a bummer because, unless the game is drastically delayed to make the necessary changes, TPP will more than likely not be an option. I wish they would just post some gameplay to actually SEE how FPP works/looks...

Still love and support you CDPR but this was a bit of a let down for me.

 

[Arisa64]

But they're open world, and your original quote was about open world games, not RPGs. You talked about neediung to see your character interact with the world in an open world game, not an rpg. I gave you concrete examples for why it wasnt at all necessary.


and Fallout and Elder Scrolls play like garbage in third person.

Every open world RPG handle TPP.

 

[ajiehb]

It tells me that cut scenes will most likely not take place in real time and be fixed rendered scenes. I don't think you guys are able to understand that it isn't just as simple as slapping a camera above the character. Lots of changes and tweaks need to be made to incorporate it.

I think you are wrong. It makes no sense to make them all pre-rendered because of character customisation.

 

[Graavigala1985]

"Third-person works well in games like the Witcher when you have a lot of motion and movement around you. But when all the things happen to you, from you, within you, first person point of view is the right decision to take, especially because of the augmentations."

So you are saying the game is barren and empty wasteland where the most important thing to see is your hands...

 

[johnson0812]

Every journalist who watched the actual gameplay are singing praises of the game and the FP element. So instead of getting disappointed about the game being FP RPG, I would rather wait until I get to take a look at the game. CDPR wouldn't have made Cyberpunk a FP game without good reasons.

 

[heliontide]

Your character will be fully animated in cut scenes. Does it say something to you?

Cutscenes are hand crafted one-offs that are designed in digital timelines with motion captured movement.

So, no. It's not even remotely the same.

 

[Prometheus_ts]

I have been waiting Years for this title and now I discover its a first person shooter???
Please tell me there will be third person too because I can't stant first person it gives me nausea and motion sickness , please!!!!

 

[Gillian_Seed]

After reading more of the thread and giving my experience of immersion regarding the various perspectives offered through interactive media more thought, I've come to the conclusion that I am more immersed within a third person experience for the same reason that I get so much emotion and feeling out of movies which are (predominantly) not filmed in first person.

As another user has suggested, I think empathy may play a role in this in my experience as whenever I play a game in FPP (Borderlands for instance) I never feel as if what is happening to the character whose eyes I am supposedly gazing out of is happening to me where as in a TPP game like MGSV I feel much more connected to the character that I am controlling.

Perhaps it is not empathy but rather perception/perspective, perhaps it is the way our brains are wired or maybe it is only preference I am not sure. One thing however is for certain and that is that there will be people who are extremely passionate about this game who will not or may not be able to play it because of the FPP due to some sort of negative physical reaction and that is very unfortunate.

 

[Sheeeen]

Every open world RPG handle TPP.

[Laughs in Borderlands]