FP VS TP - perspective matters

[heliontide]

1. As mentioned in CD Projekt Red's response to the FPP/TPP debate, you will have plenty of opportunities to see your character. To be able to see themselves in the mirror, the player's body would have to be already rendered in-game. Viewing what the player does in TPP will thus require only changing the camera angle, not adding more animations or movements.

False. TONS of game engines use separate animation sets for third person and first person. CSGO, for instance, uses arms and guns placed in front of a camera for animations in the FPP, while TPP models are animated separately. Bethesda's engine is the same.

 

[xer21]

They do not have to shoehorn it in. we are all willing to wait a little while for the game, yeah? Take a little bit more and flesh this out so everyone is happy. I will happily wait through a delay if it takes a bit more work than anticipated as long as they are being open about development.

You realize it's more than a time thing, it's a financial investment too right? they're betting that the amount of people they lose on this isn't greater than the amount of time and money they'll have to devote to it.

They're probably right. Most people who don't have a motion sickness issue will still buy it it and they're still going to have a very large crossover audience.

Game design isn't cheap and adding a toggle option isn't as simple as everyone seems to think it is.

 

[gregski]

First of all - again - please calm down a bit.

Second - please stay on topic.

 

[Cabbagehead12]

Hey CDPR I'm not buying a first person game. What is the point of that in an RPG?

You clearly don't play RPG's. This is dumb as this point.

 

[Sheeeen]

i just CAN'T believe the thought of not buying and playing this game is crossing my mind right now! after so many years of waiting and anticipation for what i thought would be the perfect RPG i just can't believe it! FPS?? FRAKING FPS?....WORD?

I call this overreaction.

 

[minajev]

Please do 3rd person RPG game... this really does matter.

 

[DCKLGOG]

False. TONS of game engines use separate animation sets for third person and first person. CSGO, for instance, uses arms and guns placed in front of a camera for animations in the FPP, while TPP models are animated separately. Bethesda's engine is the same.

Thing is, they already have all the 3rd person animations they need. If you can see yourself waking by a shop in a mirror, that means that your character is already loaded into the game with those animations. Reflections in the shop mirrors are just 2-D mappings onto a flat surface.

If they only did first-person animations, that means that my character's reflection in a mirror will suddenly disappear or stand still if I whip out my gun in FPS.

 

[Cabbagehead12]

FPP dominates shooters not immersion.

Nonsense.

 

[Zihlus]

most people want their rpgs to be TPP, that doesn't matter as we are talking about Cyberpunk 2077 and what we want in it. Back in 2013 they asked us what we wanted out of the game we told them we wanted a TPP story-driven game like the witcher but in the cyberpunk 2020 universe. now we get told that what we wanted is up in the air cause now its an FPP rpg?


We just want the choice to have TPP we are not asking for them to take out FPP. What's so wrong with us wanting what we want. Nothing, which is why we came here to tell them we want TPP option.

 

[Mk3rd]

Like playing with an RC car I would've much preferred TP, remote controlling a human that represents me in that world, constantly looking at my vanity. But given some thought, I could actually imagine the benefit of the FP perspective through Peter Gelencser's explanation. I'll force myself into it if I have to as long as the promise of a compelling narrative driven rpg is there. Plus the world would seem bigger that way. I'm actually pretty curious now on how well they're gonna pull off this risk, trying to stand out from hundreds of other FPP games. I hope I could see my cyber-enhanced body, limbs and fashion when I look down though.

 

[DCKLGOG]

First of all - again - please calm down a bit.

Second - please stay on topic.

Apologies for digressing. I will stay on topic and not respond to @heliontide any more.

 

[Cabbagehead12]

Every open world game need a TPP, it's not about immersion, it's about gameplay, you need to see your character interact with the environment.

What is this? that is not true at all.

 

[Blooddrunk]

Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Mass Effect 3, and Mass Effect: Andromeda were all made by BioWare. Legends do fall.

You forgot to mention that they started making all these games when EA took over their company, i won't even go into the fact that each game was becoming more politically correct and also had multiplayer with lotboxes.

I'm not saying it's all EA's fault but they do have a heavy impact, so much that newest BW game has dropped characters and plot, only to have co-op multiplayer as the main focus.

 

[xer21]

Every open world game need a TPP, it's not about immersion, it's about gameplay, you need to see your character interact with the environment.

no you don't . Far cry and STALKER and Planetside and Fallout and The Elder Scrolls work just fine, it's all about catering the world to the gameplay mechanics. there's nothing you NEED to see functionally. putside of just wanting to see your character in the first place, there's no reason you need it. You can navigate any size game world just fine in first person, you can see everything you need to see in first person. this is 100% just a personal preference, not a "need"

 

[Eden-prime]

Dear, CDPR..

I really want to enjoy playing Cyberpunk 2077. I really do. But after i’ve heard that it’s in FPS, i’m so sad and dissappointed. The reason that i’m sad is because i have motion sickness all my life and i can never enjoy this perspective at all. Like, AT ALL.

I really wish to play this type of game and have fun with it but i just can’t. My suggestion is at least, please put an option to switch views to Third-person. Otherwise, all this time that i’m so hype and eager to play will be in vain.

Hope you read this message and listen to our problems. We all want to enjoy your game. Please, make it right.

 

[heliontide]

You realize it's more than a time thing, it's a financial investment too right? they're betting that the amount of people they lose on this isn't greater than the amount of time and money they'll have to devote to it.

They're probably right. Most people who don't have a motion sickness issue will still buy it it and they're still going to have a very large crossover audience.

Game design isn't cheap and adding a toggle option isn't as simple as everyone seems to think it is.

Precisely this. It is a HUGE undertaking. If all those animations your character does are in a FPP -- imagine how much work it would require to recreate those in the TPP. FPP Animations aren't just a matter of animating an entire body and placing a camera inside the person's head to look at them. They are all specifically designed with hand and gun placement in mind.

Why do you think so many FPS games don't allow you to see the character's feet? Because they aren't even rendered or animated at all in the scene. It's not just as simple as slapping a camera above the head -- it's a massive task.

 

[Cabbagehead12]

Dear, CDPR..

I really want to enjoy playing Cyberpunk 2077. I really do. But after i’ve heard that it’s in FPS, i’m so sad and dissappointed. The reason that i’m sad is because i have motion sickness all my life and i can never enjoy this perspective at all. Like, AT ALL.

I really wish to play this type of game and have fun with it but i just can’t. My suggestion is at least, please put an option to switch views to Third-person. Otherwise, all this time that i’m so hype and eager to play will be in vain.

Hope you read this message and listen to our problems. We all want to enjoy your game. Please, make it right.

So many people here don't know how changing perspective in a tailored perceptive game works.

 

[Arisa64]

no you don't . Far cry and STALKER and Planetside and Fallout and The Elder Scrolls work just fine, it's all about catering the world to the gameplay mechanics. there's nothing you NEED to see functionally. putside of just wanting to see your character in the first place, there's no reason you need it. You can navigate any size game world just fine in first person, you can see everything you need to see in first person. this is 100% just a personal preference, not a "need"

The first 3 games are FPS, this is a RPG just like Fallout and Elder Scrolls series and they handle TPP.

 

[Zihlus]

Precisely this. It is a HUGE undertaking. If all those animations your character does are in a FPP -- imagine how much work it would require to recreate those in the TPP. FPP Animations aren't just a matter of animating an entire body and placing a camera inside the person's head to look at them. They are all specifically designed with hand and gun placement in mind.

Why do you think so many FPS games don't allow you to see the character's feet? Because they aren't even rendered or animated at all in the scene. It's not just as simple as slapping a camera above the head -- it's a massive task.

They also are doing multiplayer in some form. Which means you will see the other peoples characters. Which means... they have to do the animations anyway, but we don't have too much info on it but it goes to reason you will have to see others avatar to make it multiplayer right..

 

[Stiler]

For every single animation or movement you see/make in FPP, you now have to create one for your character that matches in the TPP. That is literally twice the work.

For every mechanic that is FPP HUD-based, you now need to find ways to incorporate them in the TPP. Twice the work.

So many things in FPS/FPP games totally break when you introduce a third person view. It's not even remotely simple to implement properly.

This isn't necessarily true depending on how they are doing first person view or what animations they are sharing between the player character and npc's.

I mean something like just the walk and run animation? Those are likely shared between the player model and npc models, so it will be animated fully.

Any combat moves that npc's and the player can do also are likely shared since the player will visually see npc's do that.

If they are making a true first person view (camera is where the player model head is, fully animating the player model so you see their arms/body) then they are already doing the majority of the animation work and wouldn't have to completely re-do animations for both perspectives, it'd be more tweaking things here and there so both look good.

The only reason they would have to fully do two animations would be if they use a fake first person view (so you couldn't see your body in game) and they "cheat" by simply stretching the model and other things (which is quicker/easer) to make it "appear" you are doing what you think you are without them fully animating that action (since you wouldn't see it in first person view anyways).