And I'm criticising that as a bad desicion at least for the way they work right now. Being "just a crutch" is cheap. That's also very simple.
It's fine to say it's bad, but it's better to provide an example of why it's bad and suggest an alternative.
You have heard my alternatives. Many times.
- Active target lock.
- Characterskill based chance to hit (probably amplified by the gun and situational effects to certain extent).
In a nutshell. But it doesn't work by just slapping that in there as it is, the pacing of the combat and how it generally works also need to be accounted for, but that's not something I'm going to start dissecting here anymore.
You seem frustrated - maybe I'm misreading you, but there's no need for that. We've had heated debates before, but we have and can stay civil.
I remember the skill based chance to hit stuff, you've definitely mentioned it before, but not the active target lock thing. Seems reasonable to me, though.
I'm kinda worried about the city itself more than speak that falls in line with the setting, even if it is a bit much sometimes, it often looked kinda disappointing if I'm being fully honest.
For a setting where the city is basically a main character, it doesn't pops out enough and it doesn't feels big enough, vertical wise.
That shot at the end looked like any other mid sized city nowadays, I do understand there's stuff on the bottom and we're on a platform but it doesn't really feels cyberpunk enough from what we're seeing. Everything else was great besides the difficulty but that's a demo and they were using advanced things so that's (hopefully) irrelevant, but the city itself just kinda detracted me from the experience, I kept waiting for a big landscape but even the apartment window reveal wasn't that impacting due to the size and sometimes dull colors.
Just feels kinda weird that the city, that is such a massive piece on this setting, feels small in verticality instead of the ever breathing never sleeping monster.
For a setting where the city is basically a main character, it doesn't pops out enough and it doesn't feels big enough, vertical wise.
That shot at the end looked like any other mid sized city nowadays, I do understand there's stuff on the bottom and we're on a platform but it doesn't really feels cyberpunk enough from what we're seeing. Everything else was great besides the difficulty but that's a demo and they were using advanced things so that's (hopefully) irrelevant, but the city itself just kinda detracted me from the experience, I kept waiting for a big landscape but even the apartment window reveal wasn't that impacting due to the size and sometimes dull colors.
Just feels kinda weird that the city, that is such a massive piece on this setting, feels small in verticality instead of the ever breathing never sleeping monster.
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Fair enough. I know the gameplay must be disappointing in a lot of respects. I'm certain Suhiira shares a lot of your concerns.
Part of this is probably due to it being daytime, but good points.
It really is. But it's just a game. I don't really frustrate over games. There's just a bit of a nuisance going on trying to do multiple things at the same time.
MY ANALYSIS IS FINISHED.
Don't expect any real organization in this post, I just watching the demo from start to finish and commented on what I saw.
First off, visually it's superb!
I'd say CDPR really captured the "feel" of an urban environment and Night City's dystopian version of that.
I expect to "waste" many, many hours just looking at, and roaming, the world they've built, talking to non-plot NPCs and and sometimes following them around seeing what they do. If your idea of a great game is one you can speed thru as quickly as possible with an adrenaline high I feel sorry for you. Your narrow focus on results and immediate gratification means you'll be missing out on the world, which is itself very much a character in this game, not just background art.
Like others I'd like to see a 3rd Person option, but I fully understand and support CDPRs decision to go with 1st. Ignoring (intentionally) the combat aspects of the game it really does make you feel you're "in" the world of Cyberpunk not just "watching" it.
I notice "Education" in the character generation, this sorta implies that will have some effect on the gameplay, if not, why bother? If so I'd suggest fixed options: Non, Primary, Secondary, Post-secondary, University, Advanced. And the max level should be your Intelligence stat. People with below average IQs don't earn PhD's.
While not using sliders (and they're not near as easy to implement as many think) face generation seems to have enough options to allow significant customization.
While they mention body-type there don't seem to be any body shape options, I'd suggest at least three: Slim, Average, Heavy. Those shouldn't be too hard to implement or require (really significant) art and animation changes.
With six stats and 25 points the average stat is 4.16 (five 4's and one 5), assuming a 1-10 scale this implies your character is below average (since 5.5 is the average). Maybe rethink this, players really need to feel their character is at least average. Of course everyone want's to be better, but average at a minimum.
Interesting that there seem to be zero "skills" to select from during character generation. While this has a certain logic with a semi-fixed character (which 'V' is) it also significantly reduces the players ability to make their character their own. I fully understand why including every skill in CP2020 is impractical (hell, impossible) you should at the very least be able to select even a single "perk": Attractive, Charismatic, Hacker, Jury Rigger, Marksman, Perceptive, Persuasive, Streetsmart, etc. The single "perk" needs be no more then a +/-1 modifier, but it would do wonders in making your character feel unique.
Hacking and Techie abilities seem to be merely a matter of having invested enough points into the appropriate skill trees for automatic success. These aren't "skills" they're "gates".
While I fully understand the need for the red indicators at the edge of the screen showing direction/distance, at least have a way to turn them on/off please. I also noticed that conversations and "items of interest" seem to be highlighted with blue. Given the density of the environment this is pretty much essential, but again there should be a way to toggle it on/off.
To no great surprise combat is primarily FPS with "twitch" elements (to dodge various attacks). In fact I clearly saw 'V' dodging bullets a couple times (41:43). I just hope the Quicksave/load option doesn't take to long, I'll be using it a LOT.
While magazines have set ammo capacities, apparently everyone has a "Bag of Holding" full of mags. This one is VERY tricky. You certainly don't want combat to be a scavenger hunt for ammo, or to require players to have to be constantly counting mags. So even tho this is a 100% "gamey" (vice "reality") design decision it's one I think we can live with.
While weapon recoil is somewhat indicated it's obvious the choice to follow game conventions and permit the player to fire full-auto on-the-move with totally unrealistic accuracy was made. I'm sure shooter fans will be thrilled.
It's also obvious CDPR also went with bullet spam, seems it takes 10-15 hits to drop the average NPC, also explains the "need" for essentially reconciles full-auto combat and unlimited ammo. Again, I'm sure shooter fans will be thrilled.
Lots of numbers popping up every time you fire too. At least they're mostly single and double digit so it's not entirely like an Asian MMO.
Also while I sort of understand the four (apparently) types of damage (Physical, Thermal, EMP, Chemical) I'm a bit concerned some opponents will be all but immune to three of the four requiring a certain type of weapon to be used. Very gamey.
For those craving Boss Battles, you got your wish. Watch 44:06-45:30, you have a Boss with HUGE hit points, a gimmick, and attacks to dodge or die. Nearly a minute and a half of non-stop action and twitching !
Health regen? Well it's better then healing inhalers, IF you have the right cyberware, but if you don't ...
The armsroom in the apartment maybe gives a bit too much away with the slots for blades, handguns, rifles, grenades. Maybe just blank wall textures till 'V' actually acquires the weapon in question?
Unlike earlier reports the jacket apparently does NOT give a flat 5% Streetcred boost, but rather a 5% Streetcred earned bonus. This makes more sense. Distinctive clothes means you get recognized thus earn a reputation faster.
I see "Humanity Cost" is very clearly shown on the cyberware, how this is tracked by the player, and what effect it has I haven't a clue.
I also see the "Subdermal Grip" allows the use of "Locked Weapons" (whatever those are) at a 50% damage reduction. My GUESS is this applies to the stuff (like the Smartgun) you pick up on missions. Once you get it home and hack it, or buy one of your own, I assume this damage reduction is eliminated. Also the hand clearly states it increases melee (not all, not firearms, maybe not even unarmed, melee) damage. Again, this makes sense.
I note Jackies car seems all but immune to damage, no matter what you run into/over. Again a game convention we can live with. Having to replace the undercarriage every 10 minutes would be a pain-in-the-ass. I am however concerned with the driving controls. While I don't play many driving simulators I tend to find the controls of most WAY to sensative. I suppose if you're an FPS fan you're use to hypersensitivity, but many of us are not. I hope to hell we can tweak their responsiveness.
I REALLY hate the comment "These guys are levels higher then we are." when you meet the "Corporate Agent". I realize it's a voice-over for the demo, but it STRONGLY implies CP2077 is a leveled game where you'll be under/over leveled for some (much?) of the content when you play. There are ways around level systems guys, and they're not that hard to implement.
I still have no clue how "Tech Weapons" shoot thru walls and power up shots. I guess you hand-load the cartridges on the fly. Odd that what's apparently a shotgun is used, one of the absolute worst weapons for penetration, unless you're at point-blank range.
Apparently the ricochet shooting is an eye mod and has nothing to do with a specific weapon. I still wanna know how you ricochet off the drywall that most building interiors are made of tho ??
No, wait, another eye mod/targeting system allows you to see, and shoot thru the same exact walls ???
So depending on your implants you can alter the laws of physics on the fly ????
It's also clearly shown the Smartgun is an "Epic" weapon, so don't expect to see one till later in the game. Well .... maybe a .22cal one early on. And apparently the way it works is you get a HUGE target reticle, should be interesting when dealing with multiple opponents. In fact it seems you hit everyone in the reticle (saw a couple examples of this in the vid) so be prepared to do a LOT of shooting at times, thank the gods for the "Ammo Bag of Holding" !
Either Jackie has cyberlegs, or he's been watching too many ninja movies, check him out at 41:57. And 'V' demonstrates her cyberlegs at 43:26 by double jumping. Or maybe she played too much Mario as a kid ...
####################
Conclusions:
It certainly looks like Cyberpunk, and I'm sure CDPR will include excellent RPG elements.
But ultimately it's a shooter.
Look at the bright side, I'll quit bothering to comment on most things from here on because CP2077's direction as a game is clear.
Don't expect any real organization in this post, I just watching the demo from start to finish and commented on what I saw.
First off, visually it's superb!
I'd say CDPR really captured the "feel" of an urban environment and Night City's dystopian version of that.
I expect to "waste" many, many hours just looking at, and roaming, the world they've built, talking to non-plot NPCs and and sometimes following them around seeing what they do. If your idea of a great game is one you can speed thru as quickly as possible with an adrenaline high I feel sorry for you. Your narrow focus on results and immediate gratification means you'll be missing out on the world, which is itself very much a character in this game, not just background art.
Like others I'd like to see a 3rd Person option, but I fully understand and support CDPRs decision to go with 1st. Ignoring (intentionally) the combat aspects of the game it really does make you feel you're "in" the world of Cyberpunk not just "watching" it.
I notice "Education" in the character generation, this sorta implies that will have some effect on the gameplay, if not, why bother? If so I'd suggest fixed options: Non, Primary, Secondary, Post-secondary, University, Advanced. And the max level should be your Intelligence stat. People with below average IQs don't earn PhD's.
While not using sliders (and they're not near as easy to implement as many think) face generation seems to have enough options to allow significant customization.
While they mention body-type there don't seem to be any body shape options, I'd suggest at least three: Slim, Average, Heavy. Those shouldn't be too hard to implement or require (really significant) art and animation changes.
With six stats and 25 points the average stat is 4.16 (five 4's and one 5), assuming a 1-10 scale this implies your character is below average (since 5.5 is the average). Maybe rethink this, players really need to feel their character is at least average. Of course everyone want's to be better, but average at a minimum.
Interesting that there seem to be zero "skills" to select from during character generation. While this has a certain logic with a semi-fixed character (which 'V' is) it also significantly reduces the players ability to make their character their own. I fully understand why including every skill in CP2020 is impractical (hell, impossible) you should at the very least be able to select even a single "perk": Attractive, Charismatic, Hacker, Jury Rigger, Marksman, Perceptive, Persuasive, Streetsmart, etc. The single "perk" needs be no more then a +/-1 modifier, but it would do wonders in making your character feel unique.
Hacking and Techie abilities seem to be merely a matter of having invested enough points into the appropriate skill trees for automatic success. These aren't "skills" they're "gates".
While I fully understand the need for the red indicators at the edge of the screen showing direction/distance, at least have a way to turn them on/off please. I also noticed that conversations and "items of interest" seem to be highlighted with blue. Given the density of the environment this is pretty much essential, but again there should be a way to toggle it on/off.
To no great surprise combat is primarily FPS with "twitch" elements (to dodge various attacks). In fact I clearly saw 'V' dodging bullets a couple times (41:43). I just hope the Quicksave/load option doesn't take to long, I'll be using it a LOT.
While magazines have set ammo capacities, apparently everyone has a "Bag of Holding" full of mags. This one is VERY tricky. You certainly don't want combat to be a scavenger hunt for ammo, or to require players to have to be constantly counting mags. So even tho this is a 100% "gamey" (vice "reality") design decision it's one I think we can live with.
While weapon recoil is somewhat indicated it's obvious the choice to follow game conventions and permit the player to fire full-auto on-the-move with totally unrealistic accuracy was made. I'm sure shooter fans will be thrilled.
It's also obvious CDPR also went with bullet spam, seems it takes 10-15 hits to drop the average NPC, also explains the "need" for essentially reconciles full-auto combat and unlimited ammo. Again, I'm sure shooter fans will be thrilled.
Lots of numbers popping up every time you fire too. At least they're mostly single and double digit so it's not entirely like an Asian MMO.
Also while I sort of understand the four (apparently) types of damage (Physical, Thermal, EMP, Chemical) I'm a bit concerned some opponents will be all but immune to three of the four requiring a certain type of weapon to be used. Very gamey.
For those craving Boss Battles, you got your wish. Watch 44:06-45:30, you have a Boss with HUGE hit points, a gimmick, and attacks to dodge or die. Nearly a minute and a half of non-stop action and twitching !
Health regen? Well it's better then healing inhalers, IF you have the right cyberware, but if you don't ...
The armsroom in the apartment maybe gives a bit too much away with the slots for blades, handguns, rifles, grenades. Maybe just blank wall textures till 'V' actually acquires the weapon in question?
Unlike earlier reports the jacket apparently does NOT give a flat 5% Streetcred boost, but rather a 5% Streetcred earned bonus. This makes more sense. Distinctive clothes means you get recognized thus earn a reputation faster.
I see "Humanity Cost" is very clearly shown on the cyberware, how this is tracked by the player, and what effect it has I haven't a clue.
I also see the "Subdermal Grip" allows the use of "Locked Weapons" (whatever those are) at a 50% damage reduction. My GUESS is this applies to the stuff (like the Smartgun) you pick up on missions. Once you get it home and hack it, or buy one of your own, I assume this damage reduction is eliminated. Also the hand clearly states it increases melee (not all, not firearms, maybe not even unarmed, melee) damage. Again, this makes sense.
I note Jackies car seems all but immune to damage, no matter what you run into/over. Again a game convention we can live with. Having to replace the undercarriage every 10 minutes would be a pain-in-the-ass. I am however concerned with the driving controls. While I don't play many driving simulators I tend to find the controls of most WAY to sensative. I suppose if you're an FPS fan you're use to hypersensitivity, but many of us are not. I hope to hell we can tweak their responsiveness.
I REALLY hate the comment "These guys are levels higher then we are." when you meet the "Corporate Agent". I realize it's a voice-over for the demo, but it STRONGLY implies CP2077 is a leveled game where you'll be under/over leveled for some (much?) of the content when you play. There are ways around level systems guys, and they're not that hard to implement.
I still have no clue how "Tech Weapons" shoot thru walls and power up shots. I guess you hand-load the cartridges on the fly. Odd that what's apparently a shotgun is used, one of the absolute worst weapons for penetration, unless you're at point-blank range.
Apparently the ricochet shooting is an eye mod and has nothing to do with a specific weapon. I still wanna know how you ricochet off the drywall that most building interiors are made of tho ??
No, wait, another eye mod/targeting system allows you to see, and shoot thru the same exact walls ???
So depending on your implants you can alter the laws of physics on the fly ????
It's also clearly shown the Smartgun is an "Epic" weapon, so don't expect to see one till later in the game. Well .... maybe a .22cal one early on. And apparently the way it works is you get a HUGE target reticle, should be interesting when dealing with multiple opponents. In fact it seems you hit everyone in the reticle (saw a couple examples of this in the vid) so be prepared to do a LOT of shooting at times, thank the gods for the "Ammo Bag of Holding" !
Either Jackie has cyberlegs, or he's been watching too many ninja movies, check him out at 41:57. And 'V' demonstrates her cyberlegs at 43:26 by double jumping. Or maybe she played too much Mario as a kid ...
####################
Conclusions:
It certainly looks like Cyberpunk, and I'm sure CDPR will include excellent RPG elements.
But ultimately it's a shooter.
Look at the bright side, I'll quit bothering to comment on most things from here on because CP2077's direction as a game is clear.
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Remember that it's still a video game with hardware limitations. I have to disagree I really liked the views of the city. We'll see how much of that we can go to.( A bit disappointed we didn't get to see night time though).
Agree with everything! Nailed it! (and as far as art direction is concerned, I'm in love with how light sources and neon looks. It really pops out, it's amazing!)