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Numbered hit markers and immersion

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Teez.

User
#1
How do we feel about the large number hit markers? I support the first person perspective the DEVs chose to enhance immersion but I feel that the hit markers do take away from that immersion. I understand that this is an RPG at it's core and I am an RPG fan at heart but I'd like to imagine it without those hit markers, I may feel more immersed. Maybe an option to disable them?

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.
 
#2
I really don't care about the popping numbers. Their existence on the screen is very brief, too brief to take note and won't bother my "immersion".

To me it's much more important how the combat as a whole works (or should work), how stats and skills affect it.
 

AdamTaylor

User
#4
I'm generally more disappointed with the combat system in general than with the fact that damage numbers pop up on screen.
 

AdamTaylor

User
#7
Feel free to elaborate, would like to see your point of view.
Well, for one there's the overall feel of the game. It's not an RPG, it's a shooter with RPG elements. Yes, there's stats and skills and such, but mostly it's you running around shooting stuff, with the odd chance to use a non-combat skill (and a ton of combat skills) to get through things slightly differently.

That's not really a bad thing. I mean it works for Fallout and Elder Scrolls. It's just... a little disappointing.

The other thing is that, while I've not played Cyberpunk PnP myself, I've been told the system is very similar to Shadowrun, especially in how combat mechanics and wounds work.
In Shadowrun, combat is lethal. Characters have a wound track. As you take damage, you fill in that track, and it lowers stats and skills (because you don't fight nearly as well with a bullet in you) and leads to unconsciousness and death. When you're doing combat, it's a matter of trying to score a hit (that's the main challenge). When a hit is scored, you're checking the damage and penetration of the attack against the toughness and armor of the target. If someone's got enough armor on, they can pretty much negate a lot of small arms fire. But a shot that gets through has a serious impact. In a lot of fights, it only takes one or two hits to put someone out of commission.
A character generally has 8 wound boxes plus half their willpower. But a good shot from a heavy pistol might do 5-6 wound boxes in that hit. So from a single bullet, you could be almost dead.
And that's the point. It's gunplay. It's supposed to be lethal.

But in this game... we can see the enemies are just bullet sponges, with the artificial "hit point pools" that just really take all the threat away from the fight. There's no real fear of enemies, because they can't just take you down in a shot or two. And you know that you're just going to have to put lots of bullets in them instead of having a gun that is lethal like a gun should be.

Not to mention the boss fight they showed. I thought that was terrible. Okay, he's got this power suit thing... that doesn't cover most of his body or his head. So really he should be able to take down cover and smash you in an instant, but a quick headshot would take him down (so the thrill of the fight should come from trying to line up that headshot while he is smashing his way to you). But no, he's just another sponge (a bigger one because he's a boss).
And then there's the shield he's got. I'm fine with an energy shield protecting him. That makes sense, just as you'd hide behind a riot shield if you had one because it's safer. But it does lead to the "shoot the weak point" nonsense. And that doesn't make for an exciting boss fight either, just a routine one.
 

Rawls

Moderator
#8
Well, for one there's the overall feel of the game. It's not an RPG, it's a shooter with RPG elements. Yes, there's stats and skills and such, but mostly it's you running around shooting stuff, with the odd chance to use a non-combat skill (and a ton of combat skills) to get through things slightly differently.
I mean it was a Solo build play-through (or so the demo said), so it's going to be a heavy focus on the combat.
 

AdamTaylor

User
#9
I mean it was a Solo build play-through (or so the demo said), so it's going to be a heavy focus on the combat.
If that's so I very much hope they put up a non-combat focused demo video to show us other ways of playing than just a straight up shooter.
 
#11
If that's so I very much hope they put up a non-combat focused demo video to show us other ways of playing than just a straight up shooter.
It was very anti combat for the danger that is Night City. Where the hero could she would take the most diplomatic approach and see what happened. I get this is kinda not on board with the current thread though so i should just leave this alone.
 

AdamTaylor

User
#13
It was very anti combat for the danger that is Night City. Where the hero could she would take the most diplomatic approach and see what happened. I get this is kinda not on board with the current thread though so i should just leave this alone.
Not really. I mean, if you're talking about how in the setting it's possible to get in gunfights with scum all over the place, sure. But that would make for a very tedious game.

Honestly there was a couple of conversation bits, that just lead to the gunfight. Maybe there was a way through all that without having to just shoot everyone. It would have been nice to see that route. Because the "run in and kill everyone" stuff has been done to death. We get that that's an option, it's always an option. What matters is what ELSE can you do?
 

Snowflakez

User
#14
Not really. I mean, if you're talking about how in the setting it's possible to get in gunfights with scum all over the place, sure. But that would make for a very tedious game.

Honestly there was a couple of conversation bits, that just lead to the gunfight. Maybe there was a way through all that without having to just shoot everyone. It would have been nice to see that route. Because the "run in and kill everyone" stuff has been done to death. We get that that's an option, it's always an option. What matters is what ELSE can you do?
There is a way to do that, actually, but it has consequences.

In the Gamescom demos, the player resolved the entire Maelstrom gang situation without shooting - trouble is, you screw over Meredith Stout in the process, so she gets killed and replaced with someone else (presumably killed, that is) for failing to do her job (again, assuming that was the reason, but she is replaced regardless).

All you have to do is warn Maelstrom about the chip - then things are nice and peaceful, though they insult your jacket on your way out (in the Gamescom demos, the demo player apparently saw that as enough of a threat that they turned around and started shooting anyway.. for reasons..).

Alternatively, you can just buy the Bot with your own money. Don't deal with Meredith, and no issues with Maelstrom.

So, I'm not worried. But I agree with you regardless. The way the demo has played out so far has not been in any way peaceful.
 

Suhiira

User
#15
It would have been nice to see that route. Because the "run in and kill everyone" stuff has been done to death. We get that that's an option, it's always an option. What matters is what ELSE can you do?
Seems that's what we're getting.

You can play CP2077 as a non-combat game by making the appropriate dialog choices and looking for non-combat solutions to quests. The problem, of course, is game design. If some fights are mandatory, even a handful, you have no choice but to be skilled, to at least an extent, in combat.
 
#16
I barely notice those popping numbers . I have been following AC Oddyssey and it has similar popping numbers .

if you play DPS alot..those numbers make you happy :sneaky:
 
#18
How do we feel about the large number hit markers? I support the first person perspective the DEVs chose to enhance immersion but I feel that the hit markers do take away from that immersion. I understand that this is an RPG at it's core and I am an RPG fan at heart but I'd like to imagine it without those hit markers, I may feel more immersed. Maybe an option to disable them?

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.
As long as we can toggle it off, I hated The Division, and would rather not be reminded of that travesty.

It was the only off thing in the gameplay trailer for me, but then again, the game looks like perfection otherwise, so I could probably live with it.

However, the game looks so immersive, that it would be too bad if we couldn't turn it off, just to get that extra immersion.

EDIT: I see a CDPR representative, has indeed confirmed this!

BTW, I LOVE YOU CDPR, I love your envolvement with the community, and the fact that you listen to us.

I cannot praise you guys enough - Game looks absolutely stunning aswell!
 

Teez.

User
#19
That is exactly our plan. A lot of HUD elements (including damage numbers) will be optional. :)
Since this has been marinating with me all day, consider these three options:

1. Full - Current numbered hit marker settings as displayed in the demo
2. Critical - Only critical hits will be displayed
3. Off - No numbered hit markers
 
#20
Since the numbers can be turned off I dont care.

But there is a suggestion I want to make to CDPR: just look at battlefield and other online shooters, they have damage and status indicators but usually in the middle of the screen 3/4s down.

My point is, you dont need to have the numbers and things right on top of the enemies, anywhere around other UI elements is just fine to occasionally take a glance at them.

Battlefield games in particular do it very well, you have some words colored differently so through your peripheral vision you can tell without reading the words if you got a kill or something like that. And an additional method is the color and size of the hit indicator near the crosshair, which indicates head shots if you want, and in CP it could do that or indicate criticals maybe. Sounds are also used to indicate headshots or kills too sometimes, they're clear enough to notice them, but quick and subtle enough to be in the background of the world's sounds like gunshots.

There's unlimited potential to communicate things efficiently without obstructing anything important. or requiring focus and attention.