Poll: Do we want a class system?

[thepurespecies]

Poll: Do we want a class system?

An interesting question. Now in 2020, we had classes. But with modern games and rpgs. Is it something that is still viable and needed. As with more new rpgs, when sorta get our own class. Like skyrim, the more you do something, the better at that skill you get. 2020 did have something close to that. But, at least the ver I remember, you did pick a locked in class to start out with, and improved said skills on your play style.

Now, the question. If say you started out as a Nomad. But 20hrs or so in, you wanted to try Netrunner. You'd have to create a new char to try that class out. Do you think it is better not to have a class? Go and do what you want till you mold your own play style?

Or is true old school, pick your class, the best way?

Or is this new rpg trend is something that needs to stay?

Also do you feel that a skill tree or get better at whatever as you go can be a bad thing. If so why?

 

[blank_redge]

ahem...

 

[thepurespecies]

Sorry the poll thing was giving me trouble ;p

 

[tragan34]

both

 

[empireparade]

I always lauded the Whitewolf RPG system for its free-to-choose style of character progression. Vampire the Masquerade and Werewolf were wonderfully designed and very elegant.

I grew up with AD&D, Palladium, and similar RPGs that made me feel very stifled with their rigid class systems. Especially as a kid, I couldn't fathom the concept that my mage could not wear armor or hold a sword. I thought it was bullshit, honestly.

Now I've never gotten to play CP2020, but I've reviewed the system and I think that while it is technically class-based, there is a heavy emphasis on skills. If I'm not mistaken, they can be picked up at any time. Certain classes obviously favor particular skills, but that doesn't prevent anyone from wielding a gun, correct?

I dunno, maybe someone more familiar with the system can enlighten us.

 

[thepurespecies]

From what I recall, you chose a class. But they all have a lot of skills. They all can be increased to lvl 10. There are lots for each though.

Also you need to take the Cyber parts into account too. There are 1000s of different combos just on the parts alone. I don't remember if only specific classes had access to some Cyber ware.

I do know that everyone can at least shoot something lol. Idk it's been like 15 years since I played it.

 

[Sardukhar]

There aren't really classes. Yes, there are Roles in 2020, and each Role has one(1) Special Ability. Each Role also starts with some skills you can put skill points into. You don't have to, though. Lastly, you get pick-up skills at creation: the Other Skills You Want.

You can generally put skill points anywhere. You can totally have a Corporate with Rifles 8, no problem. Or a Netrunner who has Persuasion/Fast Talk and Wardrobe/Style at 7 apiece. Or whatever. Any Role can have any skill, barring Special Abilities. Furthermore, there are no stat controls on Roles, so, yes, your Fixer could totally have better reflexes than your Solo.

The only real issue, as you'll see in the thread Redge linked, is whether to have Special Abilities. SA range from the quite potent in certain situations to the mildly amusing to the GM in other situations. Combat Sense for Solos is the big hang-up, as it is deliberately designed by R. Talsorian to make Solos -the- fighter class. The other big one is Interface for Netrunners, as it makes then unstoppable vs Non-netrunners in the Net.

So, there you have it. No DnD-style classes, or class levels. Just Special Abilties, one per Role.

 

[Mister_Lizard]

Gotta agree with Sardukhar on this. The original "leveling" scheme of CP2020 would be fairly easy to translate to a computer RPG and in my opinion would best fit the genre.

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

There aren't really classes. Yes, there are Roles in 2020, and each Role has one(1) Special Ability. Each Role also starts with some skills you can put skill points into. You don't have to, though. Lastly, you get pick-up skills at creation: the Other Skills You Want.

So, there you have it. No DnD-style classes, or class levels. Just Special Abilties, one per Role.

This sounds cool, and I hope the game is like this. Let's keep the D&D type business to other games- CP2020 had its own unique system, and I think it'll be fun to play it.

I also remember reading here that it's possible in CP2020 to be other roles or take on their skills. Why not have that in the game as well?

 

[wisdom000]

Redge said AHEM!

 

[cmdr_silverbolt]

Lol, you guys sure are committed to decorum for a forum about being punk.

 

[Dalvyn]

Also this one comes with a shiny new poll. Who doesn't love poll!

 

[username_3641692]

No classes?...or better yet we are going to have Roles, but it will be interesting, and i think this is what you mean, is to have a class system inside the Roles?...correct?

 

[Sardukhar]

I love polls!

Also pfui on decorum. SOME people are a little too obedient to structure. They will make fine drones.

 

[guidokpd]

Lol, you guys sure are committed to decorum for a forum about being punk.

An armed society is a polite society.

I have always liked the roles in cpunk 2020. Special abilities define the character's staring role. From the start they can branch out to wherever they want to go. Pick up new special abilities. Learn new skills. I do think characters should have to maintain skill levels though. Use it or loose it!

 

[blank_redge]

Buncha bastiches. Cluttering up the forum with redundandt threads. =p

Anyhoo.

In the other thread, Wisdom put down some fine arguments for doing away with a rigid Role system.

Allow me to make the argument *for* keeping a rigid Role structure.

In the real world, I'm (loosely) part of a collective that, in polite terms, are referred to as Network Security Professionals or Network Security Consultants.

In casual terms: hackers.

Now, they have other hobbies and interests. They like camping, they like Rock Band, they like parties, they like beer (they really, REALLY like beer. Almost disproportionately to other activities.)

But, for all their hobbies, for all their extracurricular activites, for all the other things that occupy their time (ie, Skills,) it's what they do with their knowledge of hardware, coding, and networks that brings home their paychecks.

While a Fixer might have a few years of BJJ or Muay Thai under their belt, I don't expect 'em to be able to bring the hurt the way a professional Solo can.

I see the Special Ability that is THE defining thing that earns the character their paycheck. This is not to say that they can't be knowledgeable, or even talented in other disciplines, but I think that the Special Ability (tied to the Role) is what sets the character apart.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I guess the question is then, What roles do we want in the game?

There are loads of roles throughout the source material, (I previously said 92, though that was a miscount.) There are 10 in the 2020 rulebook, (if you count Med-Tech as a seperate role, which really it is.)

Solo, Cop, Netrunner, Techie, Med-Tech and Fixer all make sense and are easy to see working well.
Corporate and Nomad are going to need effort to make work, (development wise,) due to their 'Resources' and 'Familiy' abilities.
Media and Rockerboy confuse me as to how they will work within the framework. Is there a place for them?

Should some new roles be in place?

 

[dragonbird]

It's three months since anyone posted in the last thread, so no, I'm not merging them. Also, poll.

Anyway, I agree with redge about the comparison to the real world. Stereotype and label people according to their primary skill, but don't use a role system to constrain what they can learn.

 

[wisdom000]

Buncha bastiches. Cluttering up the forum with redundandt threads. =p

Anyhoo.

In the other thread, Wisdom put down some fine arguments for doing away with a rigid Role system.

Allow me to make the argument *for* keeping a rigid Role structure.

In the real world, I'm (loosely) part of a collective that, in polite terms, are referred to as Network Security Professionals or Network Security Consultants.

In casual terms: hackers.

Now, they have other hobbies and interests. They like camping, they like Rock Band, they like parties, they like beer (they really, REALLY like beer. Almost disproportionately to other activities.)

But, for all their hobbies, for all their extracurricular activites, for all the other things that occupy their time (ie, Skills,) it's what they do with their knowledge of hardware, coding, and networks that brings home their paychecks.

While a Fixer might have a few years of BJJ or Muay Thai under their belt, I don't expect 'em to be able to bring the hurt the way a professional Solo can.

I see the Special Ability that is THE defining thing that earns the character their paycheck. This is not to say that they can't be knowledgeable, or even talented in other disciplines, but I think that the Special Ability (tied to the Role) is what sets the character apart.

So.... hacking is your day job?

Regardless, allow me to blow you argument out of the water my friend...

We are human beings, we have the capacity to learn and adapt. Some of us can even multi-task.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, icons in your field, started out as netrunners, designing code. Then they became Techies, creating their own hardware to implement that code more successfully. Then they became corporates. Do you believe they did not keep up with their own technology.... they were still techies and neterunners, they had devoted a significant amount of time immering themselves in those fields.... However, they are/were far more successful corporates than anything else.

A miltary field medic spends enough time under fire that he is going to pick up combat sense.

In most smaller towns, SWAT officers spend most of their time as regular beat cops, because the budgets don;t allow for a sitting SWAT team. now the situations they get in as Swat officers are every bit as hairy as in a larger city, they just don;t happen as often. Buit they still go through the training, they are still the ones carrying the big guns and busting down doors to sweep a building... They are both Cops and Solo's.

And how does this work... because Special Abilities, like skills, have a level of one-ten. Sure, you are most likely going to be better at one than the other, but these guys have spent enough time fully immersed in their respective fields to learn more than just the basic skills required.

It's a long drawn out process gaining skill in Cyberpunk, just as in the real world, and some skills raise faster than others. But exposure to the unique situations that each role specializes in, allows you to start learning beyond what mere training can provide...

(Interlock Unlimited handles this by imposing the rule that one Special Ability must be your primary, and must always remain a point higher than any other. That only the GM can give IP for special abilities (general IP cannot be spent on special abilities), and to qualify for any special abilitiy you must have the 2 skills directly related to it at least at level 4.... )

So it is by no means "easy" to get more than one special ability, or to maintain them... but it is possible... and this should be reflected, both in the pen and paper game, as well as the video game.

 

[wisdom000]

It's three months since anyone posted in the last thread, so no, I'm not merging them. Also, poll.

Anyway, I agree with redge about the comparison to the real world. Stereotype and label people according to their primary skill, but don't use a role system to constrain what they can learn.

Why do you hate me so??????????

And Redge is actually saying the opposite... Redge is FOR the one Role system......