Rise of the Sword [Combat Overhaul] [Camera Options] [Misc]

[JackBaldy]

Okay that was perhaps half-arsed.

Firstly, I'm not comparing the two mods as I haven't yet tried this...

Geralt felt a lot more responsive in FCR2, I could quickly continue attacks, in vanilla game Geralt took much more time to attack again after first attack.

I'll quote from the initial description of the mod that I think contribute to that:

I have to question whether or not you installed this mod properly. Essentially, what you quoted in regards to responsiveness is layman's terms for changing animation events. Which again, I responded that changing certain animation events, such as AllowRun, leads to bugs such as loss input and interrupted attack input.

For reference, I suggest you view the uploaded videos on Rise of the Sword and see how that differs from your experience. You should also, perhaps, make sure that you installed the mod correctly and make sure that all the mod's keys are set correctly in your User.ini file so that you can take full utilization of this mod.

I apologize if I can't be of more help.

Here are some videos to get you started, so to speak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMB0kW5c9Mo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miMQSjgOqsc

Edit: If you haven't tried out my mod, I suggest you do. There are plenty of things implemented to help prevent loss input and help with "reponsiveness" as you say... :Sighs: It's not a large mod, ~3.2 mb download (Because most of the mod is code which is text), so you don't have a lot to lose... :Scratches head:

 

[sidspyker]

Oh you mistake me, I haven't yet tried your mod. I was just trying to offer help on what Michael_Knelius said about FCR's responsiveness.

 

[Michael_Knelius]

What spyker said is true. I'll try to illustrate. After enemy successfuly blocks you, in vanilla you're wide open for about half a second before Geralt moves in the direction you want him to, but you can dodge imediately, which forces you to spam rolling like crazy when fighting a large group of enemies. The same goes for RotS mod.

In FCR2 Geralt moves almost imediately in the direction you want, after being blocked. Or casting a sign.

 

[JackBaldy]

What spyker said is true. I'll try to illustrate. After enemy successfuly blocks you, in vanilla you're wide open for about half a second before Geralt moves in the direction you want him to, but you can dodge imediately, which forces you to spam rolling like crazy when fighting a large group of enemies. The same goes for RotS mod.

In FCR2 Geralt moves almost imediately in the direction you want, after being blocked. Or casting a sign.

I have to question whether you installed my mod correctly or not...

As per the changelog of my mod:

* Removed attack reflection on Geralt, meaning that when Geralt hits someone who is blocking,
he no longer stands there like an idiot for what seems to be forever

Furthermore, in my mod, there is no "spam rolling like crazy" because all you have to do is hold the rolling button and Geralt will perform a roll as soon as he possibly can...

* Added turbos to game actions such as dodging, attacking, use ability, use item, etc. to prevent loss input and for the player to always get their desired input to occur if need be

I mean, it's even demonstrated in the videos uploaded where I hit someone with a shield, they block my strike, and I continue on my merry way.

 

[Michael_Knelius]

To be honest, I haven't played your mod that much, so what I wrote is mostly about vanilla, but you must keep in mind that I played FCR2 prior to this, and the overall impression I got from your mod about Geralt's responsiveness is that it was faster in FCR2.(played about 5-6 arena matches)

And I think I installed your mod correctly, as I have the cross hair, I'm using the default keys for long and medium ranges, I can change camera position, etc.

And when I say "roll spamming" I'm talking about how dodging by roll is still more responsive then by just moving away with movement keys, which forces you to use roll for breaking away almost every time.

You demonstrated that yourself in the video with nekkers, where you rolled after every strike. That's not roll spamming?

 

[JackBaldy]

To be honest, I haven't played your mod that much, so what I wrote is mostly about vanilla, but you must keep in mind that I played FCR2 prior to this, and the overall impression I got from your mod about Geralt's responsiveness is that it was faster in FCR2.(played about 5-6 arena matches)

And I think I installed your mod correctly, as I have the cross hair, I'm using the default keys for long and medium ranges, I can change camera position, etc.

And when I say "roll spamming" I'm talking about how dodging by roll is still more responsive then by just moving away with movement keys, which forces you to use roll for breaking away almost every time.

You demonstrated that yourself in the video with nekkers, where you rolled after every strike. That's not roll spamming?

Not to be offensive, but clearly you haven't played my mod a significant amount of time and appear to have a FCR2 bias. And the reason I say this is because you weren't even aware that you no longer get reflected like you do in vanilla when an enemy blocks your attack. Which again, is demonstrated in my uploaded videos.

Furthermore, like I've addressed many times before, the reason that you cannot simply run out of attacks like you can in FCR2 is because of bugs in the animation event code that results in lost input and interrupted attacks. So I opted to make it so that you can't run out of attacks, instead you can continue attacking or roll out of attack, neither of which results in any kind of buggy behavior, lost input, or interruption of attack input.

And yes, these bugs are present in FCR2, last I checked. There is loss input as a result of the modified AllowRun animation events.

As for the roll spamming comment, that was in reference to smashing the key repeatedly as opposed to holding it and getting the desired input. Neither FCR2 nor Vanilla Witcher 2 nor my mod get rid of the usefulness of dodging. Dodging will happen in either of those combat systems if you want to avoid taking damage. You'd be lying to yourself if you said that you didn't need to roll in either of those systems. (This is speaking about Dark mode, the difficulty I recorded my videos in, where as in easy you could play blindfold and be successful)

To have a system where you didn't need to roll is to have a completely different game. This is a modification... not Jedi Knight 4: Rise of EA.

The only suggestion I have if you wish to minimize rolling is to utilize your full arsenal, such as bombs, daggers, traps, signs, adrenaline, etc.

 

[Dprelate]

I saw your videos and I must say IMPRESSIVE work.
well done

is it technically possible to have your mod while implementing some changes in skill tree or combat mechanic ?

 

[JackBaldy]

I saw your videos and I must say IMPRESSIVE work.
well done

is it technically possible to have your mod while implementing some changes in skill tree or combat mechanic ?

If I had to take a guess, I'd say no. It depends on whether or not the mods in question change the base_scripts.dzip file. It sounds like mods that alter skill trees and combat mechanics would fall under the category. If you know what you're doing, you could potentially merge mods, but you would have to know what you're doing.

Anyhow, feedback is much appreciated.

 

[Dprelate]

you would have to know what you're doing.

Exactly
I'd really like to learn how yours or Flash's mod work and be able to merge my own ideas with some stuff from other mods.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

The way I see it is that Geralt is a very agile and fast swordsman. He's normally faster than his opposition (By a lot), so dodging and flowing in and out of combat is something that he does. The type of gameplay that I assume you want would be something that you would find in a more complex multiplayer sword fighting game.

For example, it is kind of unrealistic to expect to be playing Open Jedi Project (A mod of Jedi Academy) when I play The Witcher 2. Or even Mount and Blade. I did the best I could through this kind of modding platform, but to transform Witcher 2 vanilla combat into something else like OJP or Mount and Blade wouldn't be quite possible or feasible under the current circumstances.

To me, to have a combat system that is less reliant on fast paced agile movement would require more complexity when you are up-close, toe-to-toe. Something which this combat system never had to begin with, so you can see where the conflict comes from a modder's perspective.

I see Witcher 2's vanilla combat system as a diamond in the rough. I see this mod as an attempt to make the diamond in the rough a true and beautiful jewel. Realize it's true potential, so-to-speak. This mod, metaphorically speaking, doesn't take that diamond, bomb it, and replace it with kryptonite or .

I apologize that you did not find here what you were truly looking for, but I hope that this mod can, at the very least, enhance your Witcher 2 experience.

Perhaps you didnt get my vision of what id replace the rolling-all-time problem with.

I want less reliance on rolling because ideally (cant be done with mods probably), i want strafing and very fast but rather short sidesteps, and also forward and backward steps, and keep the rolling only for large enemies or getting out of being surrounded.

Combine that with being able to perform sword strikes while walking a bit and maybe a piruette move that spins the sword around Geralt almost like dancing, wich deflects enemy strikes.

Im not expecting you to do this lol, i was just imagining stuff, talking about gameplay ideas, i know its not possible to do all of this with modding TW2, and i also appreciate that you tried to exploit the witcher 2's vanilla combat rather than replace it, i think its the right way to go, probably the only one too.

Dont apologize, the mod is amazing, its hands down, the best witcher 2 mod ive tried.

If you ask me, CDPRED should include this into original witcher 2 copies just like FCR for witcher 1.

 

[JackBaldy]

i want strafing

Funny you should mention strafing. I really made my best attempt at getting strafing to work.

I really would have liked to have implemented strafing, but there was a rather large road block. For reasons that escape me, when one strafes diagonally, their movement speed is lower than when they do not. Because of this, I decided against a full implementation of strafing as diagonal strafing movement would be very disadvantaged and that would defeat the purpose of implementing it to begin with.

It's seemingly very possible, but there's a key element that's missing. Could be something hidden in the mess that are behavior files. Could be how the game blends animations. Could be something under the hood that I do not have access to. It's unfortunate, especially since there are animations in place.

It would have been rather fitting for the theme of my mod, which is essentially to put Geralt's aim in the player's hand. If strafing was implemented, the player would always be looking towards the camera's direction. But yeah, couldn't get it to work to a level that was satisfactory. :Shrugs:

Dont apologize, the mod is amazing, its hands down, the best witcher 2 mod ive tried.

If you ask me, CDPRED should include this into original witcher 2 copies just like FCR for witcher 1.

The sentiment is much appreciated.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Funny you should mention strafing. I really made my best attempt at getting strafing to work.

I really would have liked to have implemented strafing, but there was a rather large road block. For reasons that escape me, when one strafes diagonally, their movement speed is lower than when they do not. Because of this, I decided against a full implementation of strafing as diagonal strafing movement would be very disadvantaged and that would defeat the purpose of implementing it to begin with.

It's seemingly very possible, but there's a key element that's missing. Could be something hidden in the mess that are behavior files. Could be how the game blends animations. Could be something under the hood that I do not have access to. It's unfortunate, especially since there are animations in place.

It would have been rather fitting for the theme of my mod, which is essentially to put Geralt's aim in the player's hand. If strafing was implemented, the player would always be looking towards the camera's direction. But yeah, couldn't get it to work to a level that was satisfactory. :Shrugs:



The sentiment is much appreciated. />/>

 

[JackBaldy]

You already successfully included the witcher 1 animations in TW2 for the fist fighting, is there any possibility or benefit in your opinion of doing that with some of TW1's quick dodge animations?

It's funny you should mention that... Technically, I didn't include any animations from Witcher 1. The funny thing about combat fist fighting is that it's so inaccessible in the original game that most people don't even know it's there. I only came across them while doing heavy testing in my mod.

Essentially, the only way to access them in the original game is to un-equip both your weapons and try to enter combat steel or combat silver state (One of the two). My mod makes combat fist fighting far more accessible, so most people get to discover it for the first time, so to speak.

It gets rather complicated when it comes to animations. It's not my area of expertise.

There's actually a lot of deprecated code in regards to certain Witcher 1 dodging and jumping in the behavior files. However, they are unlinked and behavior files are, for lack of a better description, a mess. From what I gather, Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings is actually the transformation of Witcher 1: Rise of the White Wolf (A cancelled console title). Here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWtDp7qLL4

 

[JackBaldy]

Don't want to get anyone's hopes up just yet but ... I'm going through the testing phase of adding in the ability to run after attacks and signs as opposed to dodging (If you prefer to do so). Fortunately, after quite of bit of experimentation, I happened to find a way to introduce this kind of behavior without the bugs associated with the traditional AllowRun animation event code.

I've also made some slight changes to the vanilla code regarding knives/daggers, to ensure that they land correctly on enemies and that they don't leave their effects playing if they don't collide with enemies.

If everything goes well and no bugs creep up, it should be released soon.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

It's funny you should mention that... Technically, I didn't include any animations from Witcher 1. The funny thing about combat fist fighting is that it's so inaccessible in the original game that most people don't even know it's there. I only came across them while doing heavy testing in my mod.Essentially, the only way to access them in the original game is to un-equip both your weapons and try to enter combat steel or combat silver state (One of the two). My mod makes combat fist fighting far more accessible, so most people get to discover it for the first time, so to speak.It gets rather complicated when it comes to animations. It's not my area of expertise.There's actually a lot of deprecated code in regards to certain Witcher 1 dodging and jumping in the behavior files. However, they are unlinked and behavior files are, for lack of a better description, a mess. From what I gather, Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings is actually the transformation of Witcher 1: Rise of the White Wolf (A cancelled console title). Here's a video:

How interesting, of all the answers i was expecting, one that includes Rise of the White Wolf was definitely not among them.

After reading this i started investigating into the available or done animations for the Witcher 2 and i found so many cool ones not used for the final game, its really a shame.

Don't want to get anyone's hopes up just yet but ... I'm going through the testing phase of adding in the ability to run after attacks and signs as opposed to dodging (If you prefer to do so). Fortunately, after quite of bit of experimentation, I happened to find a way to introduce this kind of behavior without the bugs associated with the traditional AllowRun animation event code.I've also made some slight changes to the vanilla code regarding knives/daggers, to ensure that they land correctly on enemies and that they don't leave their effects playing if they don't collide with enemies.If everything goes well and no bugs creep up, it should be released soon.

Is the new found solution related to those running attack animations one can see in the REDkit asset browser? I dont know why CDPRED didnt use many of those but after seeing what i said before, it seems they were planning a much more varied and capable combat system.

Or at least they made the animations for one.

 

[JackBaldy]

Is the new found solution related to those running attack animations one can see in the REDkit asset browser? I dont know why CDPRED didnt use many of those but after seeing what i said before, it seems they were planning a much more varied and capable combat system.

Or at least they made the animations for one.

No, it's not related. I just had to find a creative way to interrupt attacks when dodging was capable of doing so, and then putting in a lot of checks and such to make sure that it didn't break anything else. I'm nearly finished with my testing, ran into a few road blocks but hopefully I've taken care of them all.

I feel that this method is devoid of the bugs that the AllowRun animation event code had and it's a lot more flexible when it comes to running out of your attacks.

Once I release the update, you will have to re-add the behavior files included in the mod. Just putting this out there in case anyone doesn't do so because the previous updates didn't include any changes to them.

 

[JackBaldy]

Well, I've uploaded it. I might get a video out at some point illustrating the changes. As for now, I'm rather tired and I'm hoping I didn't miss any obvious bugs. And if I did, I apologize. Hope you guys enjoy. :Waves:

 

[username_2648340]

thanks for the mod!! can't wait to try it.



FCR 2 to me changed too many things and bugged up the game too much for me. I like how you only tweaked the combat and left a lot of the game untouched!

 

[JackBaldy]

thanks for the mod!! can't wait to try it.



FCR 2 to me changed too many things and bugged up the game too much for me. I like how you only tweaked the combat and left a lot of the game untouched!

I felt like the vanilla version of the game was a good base and yes, for the most part, only the combat system was touched. Which is why the file size is considerably small. Most of the mod is essentially text, i.e. code.

Anyhow, I hope you enjoy the mod.

 

[Michael_Knelius]

So you added some tweaks to your mod? I suppose I will have to download the files from witcher nexus again?

Anyway, I've been playing more of the game with your mod, and I must say that what you did with this mod is great. You added so much more control to what I can do with Geralt that fights in the arena that asked for a lot of repositioning and dodging are now more focused on combat and choosing the right targets in the right situation.

Instead of concentrating on where Geralt should be (if I don't want to be surrounded and gangraped), I'm more concentrating on the sequence of attacks and targets for the given situation.

This feels as how the combat mechanics should have been from the start for the PC.