Shadowrun Returns

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I do really like Shadowrun - I've made quite a few comments in the forum as SRR nears release. I also bought the 5E PnP book.

Now look at my CP2077 post count.

Guesssss how much I love this game?

Disgusting, really.

The lack of save thing is dumb, dumb, dumb. On the other hand, GMs are already messing about with triggers to bypass that and allow you to save manually.
 
Too bad they are making an indie game. Like i have said many times before, i loathe isometric view and i hate the fact they force that view on gamers because some suckers think "indie gaming is cool."
 
.. I don't...

I..

what?

You realise they are an indie developer? For whatever "indie" means - they are publishing it themselves...and..you know what? Never mind.
 
.. I don't...

I..

what?

You realise they are an indie developer? For whatever "indie" means - they are publishing it themselves...and..you know what? Never mind.

I know they are an indie developer. It doesn't matter if they are publishing it themselves. Of all the people who can make Shadowrun game, an indie gaming company had to do it. (Whenever an "indie" or independent gaming company does something they usually make a isometric game that looks mostly like 90's games. Some people started to proudly call themselves indie gamers. People who love to play games that looks like a leftover from the sodding side 90's. I find that quite annoying.) I'm just grateful games like GTA and Fallout wasn't at the hands of these people. Or we would be still playing isometric crap versions of those games instead.

I know it is hard for you to understand Sard... It normally is... So here, have this slice of pizza:



Dammit, i've made myself hungry.. Oh well..
 
You do realise that a lot of people think of CDPR as an indie developer, don't you?

The "indie gamers" comments are starting to get offensive, and, as already mentioned in other threads, let's cut back on the image spam.
 
You do realise that a lot of people think of CDPR as an indie developer, don't you?

The "indie gamers" comments are starting to get offensive, and, as already mentioned in other threads, let's cut back on the image spam.

I don't consider them as "indie" developers.. (And they don't call themselves "indie") I love CDPR. And they are working independently. Resemblance ends there. And i haven't said anything offensive.
 
I don't consider them as "indie" developers.. (And they don't call themselves "indie") I love CDPR. And they are working independently. Resemblance ends there. And i haven't said anything offensive.

Describing other gamers as "suckers" because they don't share your tastes in games is getting there. So less of this type of language please.
 
Describing other gamers as "suckers" because they don't share your tastes in games is getting there. So less of this type of language please.

Its not that they don't share my tastes, they are ruining the gaming industry. (Right after MMO people..) I only called people who call themselves "indie gamers" who think highly of themselves, are proud being called indie gamers and quick to insult people who don't share their tastes. (I made a comment once on gamespot, regarding that i would buy the game if it had an option for other camera modes if possible. For me, it was casual.. For them (the people who called themselves indie gamers and seemed to think of themselves as the next link in evolution), for some reason it was the insult of their life time.. In their point of view, i was ruining their perfect game by asking for an option.. (Like i've said, i just said if its possible. I know some isometric games have only one sided map and free camera mode cannot be added because of that.) For them, game has to look exactly like it was made in 90's but in 3d... Or it is ruined and doesn't fit their profound tastes. (They described me as such..) Before i've said another word, 20 of them started personally attacking me. I didn't bother saying anything else. I have every right to be annoyed by them.

But i get your point and i will stop insulting them lovely people.. (Lovely is not the right word i think.. Crazy.. Crazy is the right word..)
 
I'm just grateful games like GTA and Fallout wasn't at the hands of these people. Or we would be still playing isometric crap versions of those games instead.
Now those were fun GTA games. Last good ones I've played. Granted haven't played that much of the new versions.
Fallout 3 is the worst game of the series down there with Tactics. New Vegas was great though. So it really doesn't matter to me that much as long as the game has meat in it :)
 
I know they are an indie developer. It doesn't matter if they are publishing it themselves. Of all the people who can make Shadowrun game, an indie gaming company had to do it. (Whenever an "indie" or independent gaming company does something they usually make a isometric game that looks mostly like 90's games. Some people started to proudly call themselves indie gamers. People who love to play games that looks like a leftover from the sodding side 90's. I find that quite annoying.) I'm just grateful games like GTA and Fallout wasn't at the hands of these people. Or we would be still playing isometric crap versions of those games instead.

I'm not fan of isometric view myself but i think it's more about shadowrun: returns being the real first proof fans get can something close to they want from Kickstarter without forcing devs to deal with publishers, meaning gamers can put some hope into other projects (SC, eternity, PS2 etc). It's not like there's a mass hysteria about indies out there, but that's an added value to its popularity. It also means kickstarter might be the best hope to start a new golden age of gaming, so you can see why it's so important to some people
 
Fallout 3 is the worst game of the series down there with Tactics. New Vegas was great though. So it really doesn't matter to me that much as long as the game has meat in it :)

Which is just your opinion. For me, Fallout 3 is up there with the first game. Best game of the series being Fallout 2. Also, if they didn't make Fallout 3, we would never have Fallout New Vegas. Thus my hate.

I'm not fan of isometric view myself but i think it's more about shadowrun: returns being the real first proof fans get can something close to they want from Kickstarter without forcing devs to deal with publishers, meaning gamers can put some hope into other projects (SC, eternity, PS2 etc). It's not like there's a mass hysteria about indies out there, but that's an added value to its popularity. It also means kickstarter might be the best hope to start a new golden age of gaming, so you can see why it's so important to some people

Now, i explained that before, i don't have a problem with kickstarter or the independent developers. I have a problem with people who started to call themselves "indie gamers". (To live the glory of the good old days, i guess?) Also, do you truly think all fans of Shadowrun want isometric view without exception? But those fanatic a-holes wouldn't have it any other way. They don't want something everybody can enjoy, they want something solely they can enjoy. (You can even see people lashed out for asking something optional from time to time.) It is incredibly annoying.
 
Which is just your opinion. For me, Fallout 3 is up there with the first game. Best game of the series being Fallout 2. Also, if they didn't make Fallout 3, we would never have Fallout New Vegas. Thus my hate.



Now, i explained that before, i don't have a problem with kickstarter or the independent developers. I have a problem with people who started to call themselves "indie gamers". (To live the glory of the good old days, i guess?) Also, do you truly think all fans of Shadowrun want isometric view without exception? But those fanatic a-holes wouldn't have it any other way. They don't want something everybody can enjoy, they want something solely they can enjoy. (You can even see people lashed out for asking something optional from time to time.) It is incredibly annoying.

You have been warned about your language by a moderator already in this thread. Now you're calling people you disagree with "fanatic assholes", which is ignoring moderator's request . Choice & consequences.
 
You have been warned about your language by a moderator already in this thread. Now you're calling people you disagree with "fanatic assholes", which is ignoring moderator's request . Choice & consequences.

I'm not calling that to people who disagreed with me, i'm calling that to people who assaulted me before. There is a difference. Also, i didn't exactly say "assholes" now, did i?
 
Don't fight over it...
@ warsend As far as i'm concerned, arguments are what matters to me. I never try to find what's wrong in someone's mind 'cause that's easy to make up. Idk why you think this of indie gamers, but i can tell you indie devs not dealing with isometric stuff exists and are not trying to force anything into people. Like bohemia with arma 3 or WolfireGames with Overgrowth. You can see there's a broader indie community other than the "asshole" one.
I guess the thing with shadorwrun: returns being isometric is some devs just had to earn old fans' trust, else they could forget about the money. Same applies to other rpg games fans on kickstarter. I for one i haven't pledged a thing yet, as i'm more into tp action games than anything
 
Don't fight over it...
@ warsend As far as i'm concerned, arguments are what matters to me. I never try to find what's wrong in someone's mind 'cause that's easy to make up. Idk why you think this of indie gamers, but i can tell you indie devs not dealing with isometric stuff exists and are not trying to force anything into people. Like bohemia with arma 3 or WolfireGames with Overgrowth. You can see there's a broader indie community other than the "asshole" one.
I guess the thing with shadorwrun: returns being isometric is some devs just had to earn old fans' trust, else they could forget about the money. Same applies to other rpg games fans on kickstarter. I for one i haven't pledged a thing yet, as i'm more into tp action games than anything

I have already stated that i don't have a problem with independent developers. Hell, I LOVE INDEPENDENT DEVELOPERS. I only have a problem with indie gamers (apparently for them "indie" no longer short for "independent") and the developers who feed them. I keep trying to explain this, but perhaps i'm not picking the right words.
 
They don't want something everybody can enjoy, they want something solely they can enjoy. (You can even see people lashed out for asking something optional from time to time.) It is incredibly annoying.

But see, that is what other people call "casualization" (I don't know why mechanical, feedback or layout impediments or inadequacies "casualize" anything, but, oh, well...). Some, and that might be more true, would just calling it "selling out to the mainstream", which on the one hand I can see very well how it can alienate long time fans, but on the other hand is just stupid. It's like this "I did this before it was cool" and we should add "I want people polishing my ego, and treating me like a pro-video-athlete".

See, I feel that when someone has a project, and a project that major developers have rejected when proposed, these someones have to get it done with the means they have (as long as it's not the worst possible way of doing it). Isometric gets it done. It attracts people through nostalgia, but what's bad about it? It's based on a 23 year old franchise that ships new editions faster than the very DnD. If nostalgia alone is such bad a thing, maybe we should ban franchising and or rebooting as a thing that only serves a purpose of monetizing an old idea some producer happens to have the exploitation rights to.

Also, turn based, grid based is right at home in the genre. The very pnp is turn bases, so it's genuine. Also, I feel that it helps strategy. I myself prefer advance wars, ff tactics, wesnoth and the like to age of empires, starcraft or warcraft. And, while this is "drawn" tiles and 3d models, I would like someone to try and make something similar with pre-rendered graphics, simply because they had a distinct taste. So, what is more legitimate? Making a game so everyone likes it or make it so that at least some people that wouldn't otherwise like games, or games these days would have a chance at finding their thing?

You also say they are ruining the industry. I would say "no, they aren't, period", but I'm more intrigued as how do you think this is happening.
 
But see, that is what other people call "casualization" (I don't know why mechanical, feedback or layout impediments or inadequacies "casualize" anything, but, oh, well...). Some, and that might be more true, would just calling it "selling out to the mainstream", which on the one hand I can see very well how it can alienate long time fans, but on the other hand is just stupid. It's like this "I did this before it was cool" and we should add "I want people polishing my ego, and treating me like a pro-video-athlete".

See, I feel that when someone has a project, and a project that major developers have rejected when proposed, these someones have to get it done with the means they have (as long as it's not the worst possible way of doing it). Isometric gets it done. It attracts people through nostalgia, but what's bad about it? It's based on a 23 year old franchise that ships new editions faster than the very DnD. If nostalgia alone is such bad a thing, maybe we should ban franchising and or rebooting as a thing that only serves a purpose of monetizing an old idea some producer happens to have the exploitation rights to.

Also, turn based, grid based is right at home in the genre. The very pnp is turn bases, so it's genuine. Also, I feel that it helps strategy. I myself prefer advance wars, ff tactics, wesnoth and the like to age of empires, starcraft or warcraft. And, while this is "drawn" tiles and 3d models, I would like someone to try and make something similar with pre-rendered graphics, simply because they had a distinct taste. So, what is more legitimate? Making a game so everyone likes it or make it so that at least some people that wouldn't otherwise like games, or games these days would have a chance at finding their thing?

You also say they are ruining the industry. I would say "no, they aren't, period", but I'm more intrigued as how do you think this is happening.

Wow, you somehow managed to not understand any of my point. Congrats. Your post also menages to defend the things i didn't even say or implied. (You are not great on reading side are you..) Also, you somehow reached the conclusion i hate old games? And why did you even bother defending independent developers? I already stated my problem was not with them.. Not all of them.

Like i ALREADY stated many times before, i'm not against isometric games. I'm against the idea it being the only option. And other players forcing that style down our throats and not allowing other options to be present.

Also, they ruining the industry or not is not something you can say "period" on. It is not a matter of facts, it is a matter of opinions. They are ruining the industry by asking same type of thing over and over again. (This is a bit hard to explain, there were a research with lots of charts, i can post that if you like.) Like MMO developers who ruin RPG games.. (They earn more money that way, which gives some certain developers terrible ideas.. You see, KOTOR1-KOTOR2-SWTOR, NWN1-NWN2-The Neverwinter. It is only going to get worse.)
 
As gregski said, choices have consequences. This conversation is now closed, but I'm not locking the thread, as I'm sure many of you would like to talk about Shadowrun Returns.
 
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