I've been here since the beginning. No one said to scrap everything. We wanted change, yes but no one wanted the game to be completely changed. Most of us wanted abused cards to be fixed (Viper Witcher, put Regis on monsters only etc. Maybe change ca spys a bit, limit rng, put a preferred row system in place, fix coin flip, make the game more adult. We didn't want the game play loop completely changed. I was excited for a change honestly but this version lost all the charm and fun the original had. Only saving grace is the card art but seeing the abilities makes me hate even looking at the art now.
I wasn't talking about you, some did...A lot in fact.
Btw, among the things you listed, most of them has been favorably answered. Viper witcher has been changed, there is a preferred row system, the coin flip has been fixed and the game is more adult....Just saying.
Most complaints about HC aren't comparing it to post Midwinter. They're comparing it to Gwent before the down-ward spiral started. CDPR could have just as easily evaluated the changes they made to create many of these worrisome problems and reverted them. Instead it's, "Gwent can't work now, must do over-haul 3.0.". It's not even necessarily about what they tried to fix but how they did it.
Sorry, but this isn't relevant. "They do it too, only worse.", is never a reasonable defense.
Favorably is a stretch.
"Banish random card" has no place in Gwent. It doesn't belong. Particularly when it can arbitrarily murder valuable golds. Most reveal cards are... questionable. Xarth is effectively an improved Gascon. The difference being it ranges from a slightly under-valued gold to slightly above Tibor without the opponent card draw (the Golem reveal is infuriating to play against... right up there with Arbalests). These mechanics are the exact opposite of being careful with RNG related cards.
Preferred row system.... Alright, in some cases the preferred rows work. In others not so much... I don't consider it a preferred row if a card doesn't do anything when placed in a certain row. It's particularly frustrating for new players when they forget the text and inadvertently put a melee only card in the range row, or vice versa. It's very similar to hand-limt + three card draws. I've seen a good number of starter decks screw both up and it sucks.
The coin flip getting fixed is also questionable. The 5 point TA can completely change the course of a game. Specifically when used on engine cards. Some of those cards are a real problem if not dealt with quickly. TA is the difference between dealing with them quickly vs having no shot at stopping them. Certain leader abilities tie into this in a number of ways too. Plus, the coin flip still pushes certain match-ups heavily in one direction or another.
Why do you assume it's a defense? I've never said it was.
It's merely an observation.
It's a stretch for whoever wants it to be a stretch.
It's funny how peoples ALWAYS find a reason to complain whatever you offer them.
I have no issue with Viper Witcher, what you explain is the exact same things noobs complain about mill in MTG. "Milling" a valuable gold isn't as bad as you depict it, it's not worst than not drawing it and if it's something that you can tutor, like the Witcher trio for example, that's the risk you're taking by playing that kind of card.
The preferred row system forces players to know what they do, I have no problem with that. What's missing is a symbol on the card that tells you where you need to play it but the system itself is perfectly fine.
About TA, I'm sorry but attempt to exploit it are so easy to counter. It's kinda the 1O1 of deck building.
Also, it's supposed to...well, give an advantage to player one so it kinda make sense and the hand size limit allows you to reajust the flow of the game if your opponent go too crazy on R1 so no, I really have no problem with that, at least personaly.
I have been reading pretty much everything both positive and negative about Gwent: Homecoming. More often than not when I am reading posts here as well as Reddit it is astonishing how so many people jump to conclusions and jump ship because of change. I have been playing Gwent for a long time now (about 2+ years) I have loved ever iteration of it (even Midwinter) I guess I am different because I love Gwent because I love the Witcher universe. I do not like Magic, nor have a care for Artifact the only CCG I will be playing is Gwent. I can understand when streamers need a change in scenery, I am a Career Advisor at a college and when I talk to students it is very popular that change is needed (especially in careers). I think we all have these moments in our lives. So I can understand Swim's logic in wanting to experience something different.
I can tell you that after playing many hours in Homecoming I love it, it fits everything I like to see in a card game experience (especially in the Witcher universe) the joy I have in playing the game will never cease (like my love for heavy metal music). I am not at all interested in competitive play because I am way too busy with my career and life. Because of this Gwent is perfect for my lifestyle. I do not think at the least CD ProjektRed blew it with Homecoming, there is so much potential with the new engine. When artifact decks were popular and maligned they did their due diligence and changed it quickly, I have played quite a few games since the hotfix and rarely came across these decks. Of course we are going to see even more balancing when December hits. I love that CD ProjektRed kept the console players in mind so they too can have a positive experience with the game once it is released.
I think we all just need to be patient with things, with streamers leaving (like Swim) it does not mean Gwent: Homecoming is dead on arrival. This shortsighted attitude of some people who feel this way could actually hurt the potential growth of Homecoming. if I were a new player and saw all this negativity I would be reluctant to give the game a try. if you want Gwent: Homecoming to be successful do not jump to conclusions and immediately say "CD ProjektRed failed" this just makes it worse. I think we as loyal players should embrace the change and accept it, because for me (in my humble opinion) I have loved what they have done to Gwent. I cannot wait to see what the future holds for it, and with old streamers leaving it paves the way for new and creative streamers to keep the legacy of Gwent alive and well.
I can tell you that after playing many hours in Homecoming I love it, it fits everything I like to see in a card game experience (especially in the Witcher universe) the joy I have in playing the game will never cease (like my love for heavy metal music). I am not at all interested in competitive play because I am way too busy with my career and life. Because of this Gwent is perfect for my lifestyle. I do not think at the least CD ProjektRed blew it with Homecoming, there is so much potential with the new engine. When artifact decks were popular and maligned they did their due diligence and changed it quickly, I have played quite a few games since the hotfix and rarely came across these decks. Of course we are going to see even more balancing when December hits. I love that CD ProjektRed kept the console players in mind so they too can have a positive experience with the game once it is released.
I think we all just need to be patient with things, with streamers leaving (like Swim) it does not mean Gwent: Homecoming is dead on arrival. This shortsighted attitude of some people who feel this way could actually hurt the potential growth of Homecoming. if I were a new player and saw all this negativity I would be reluctant to give the game a try. if you want Gwent: Homecoming to be successful do not jump to conclusions and immediately say "CD ProjektRed failed" this just makes it worse. I think we as loyal players should embrace the change and accept it, because for me (in my humble opinion) I have loved what they have done to Gwent. I cannot wait to see what the future holds for it, and with old streamers leaving it paves the way for new and creative streamers to keep the legacy of Gwent alive and well.
Not complaining that people are complaining at all. I certainly have done my share. Just curious for some perspective from those who seem to see only negative.Humorously, and concisely put. I'd give you 1000 cookies if I could and thanks for making me laugh
I hope one day all those people who are always positive about everything qwent, always bathe in rainbows and unicorn farts no matter what happens to gwent, would finally get a grip on the situation rather than complaining that people are complaining. Nah, I am asking too much. Do whatever you wish. Who cares.
That makes perfect sense. I have only been here since post mid Winter so I don't have the same perspective as some if the long timers
Your point of interest in Gwent is anchored to the universe of the witchers, so you will enjoy it no matter what. You don't like any other card games simply because they are not from the witchers. It is quite clear where your favoritism of HC coming from. It's not because the game itself is good or bad. It's because it is related to the witcher universe.
I like MTG, however, not as much as I liked Gwent beta, pre winter update. I like MTG because they got tons of interesting, diverse cards and a myriad of different card abilities, but I don't like it more than Gwent beta because the pace is slow and the gameplay is heavily influenced by draw RNG. I have my reasons for likes and dislikes as well as many others who came here to express contempt toward HC.
As a career advisor, I'd expect you to at least know not everyone think the same, like the same, or perceive the same. You like it that way doesn't mean everyone else should for the same reason. The negativity isn't unwarranted. People who complain is not because of the fact Gwent has changed. It is HOW Gwent has changed. All those wordy posts that are ever written here are by people who have a list of things to criticize, a list of things that can't enjoy about HC. Interestingly, in your eyes, they are mere complaints from impatience. Patience doesn't make a game enjoyable, because patience doesn't change the aspects of HC that people don't find enjoyable. I am not waiting for an opportunity. I am talking about a game. I am not trying to adopt into a new environment to survive or change a major to compensate my failing grade or career to pay my bills. I am talking about a freaking game. What patience have anything to do with it?
It's not about whether the card is fair or balanced. Most decent NG decks I've seen don't run VW anyway. It's too reliant on RNG and unnecessary for Reveal to function. It's not even high up on the list of complaints anyway (the way most games just snowball if you don't carry and draw the right counter is the biggest concern). It's the principle behind it.
Again, I don't take issue with preferred rows. The fact remains certain cards really ought to be row locked. If they're melee only don't allow placing them on range. It's more to protect new players from getting screwed because they don't know any better. Other cards need to have the range vs melee looked at again, as there is very little difference between the two. In some cases it works well (DB Bowmen and Archers are good examples).
Exploiting TA is easy to counter, yes. There are a lot of under-valued cards you can use to completely negate TA (I've seen almost nobody running them). It's still weird how much of a gap there is between a card getting put on the board at it's base value vs getting 5 extra points slapped onto it. Certain card values change wildly around TA. Again, certain MU's are still significantly influenced by coin flip. Furthermore, flip by itself was never a huge problem. I think it's a bit premature to slap "fixed" on this area. This is without even mentioning the extra mulligan.
Before I go any further, just one thing. The coinflip WAS a huge issue, the biggest one in fact. It was possible to win games just based on that and certain decks/cards became unplayable because of it.
I want to point that out because since LC said otherwise, boom, some peoples magically claim that it was not a problem (I'm not saying you're one of them, it can genuinely be a coincidence).
The reason why LC said such thing is because he didn't play the game since ages and needed an argument to explain why he doesn't like the TA. That's his opinion and I respect it but saying that the coinflip wasn't an issue is clearly an oversight considering how annoying and tedious (to say the least) the coinflip made games in old Gwent.
And speaking of respecting one's opinion, I understand what you mean and respect yours but I think it's a bit harsh to claim that old Gwent was great and HC is shit considering CDPR did exactly what the community wanted in term of changes.
Because yes, the preferred row system could have been different, for instance, in fact they could have implemented it in a thousand different ways but they still did it, peoples can't deny that.
Bear in mind that HC is kind of a new game in a way and therefore, everything can't be perfect because there is too many new mechanics and effects. Just give CDPR a bit of time to adjust the whole thing because they're no medium, they can't tell for sure everything is gonna please everyone first try.
And yes, I fully agree about the extra mulligan when you start a game first, it's overkill when you already get TA (and it creates some weird BS situation, like Usurper getting a mulligan when he's supposed to have none, it makes no sense) but again, this is the first shot of fixing the coinflip (and quiet frankly, I'm really impressed by how close they are from the mark, that part could have easily resulted in something that completely breaks the game and makes it unplayable). Not only it's not the case but the game feels much better and fair than it used to in old Gwent.
It could be because he actually understood the coin flip advantage. By itself coin flip was a minor advantage because the player going second could play more reactively. If you knew what cards they were playing, or what they were probably playing given all the available information (leader, cards already played, when they pause to make decisions, etc.), it wasn't such a huge problem. It only ballooned into a huge issue because of abuse getting paired with it.
Like I said over and over in the past.... R1 dry-passing didn't exist in old Gwent. Coin flip by itself wasn't a horrible problem in old Gwent. Old Gwent means before Midwinter. It's just easier to finger point at the coin flip instead of actually thinking about why it was a problem and R1 dry-passing became routine. It's easier to slap a 5 point immune artifact buff, 1 extra mulligan and hand-limit into the game.
I never said HC was shit. What I said was HC has just as many problems as old Gwent. Many of these can be fixed. Many of the problems in old Gwent could be fixed. It was never a question of whether the problems could have been fixed. It was a question of how much thought, care and effort was needed to do so.
This is part of my concern. I don't think they have done a very good job of adjusting the game, ever. It's an opinion and a harsh one but it's the truth
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Well, in Old(er) Gwent (CB) there were more ways to regain CA, so the coin-flip mattered less. After stream-lining the CA cards (i.e. removing most of them) and removing the CA faction ability, the coin-flip became more important. This has lead to the dry-pass tactic. That, and the rise of tempo plays.
why would you write something that is simply not true?
"I was very much enjoying Homecoming during the time I was able to play it."
Fake news much?
You realize that Swim says many things, and taking some video out of context in order to disprove a point is a straw man.
The fact is that many players, streamers included are simply frustrated with how long it has and will take to 'fix' the game.
how is quoting from a video literally about why he quit Gwent in any way out of context?
you really need to learn to interpret your information sources.
But the coinflip abuse WAS the issue, it was so easy to get an advantage out of it and reduces the game's design way too much.
You have Broover + Clever after you won the coinflip, you win the game.
You have a silver spy after you won the coinflip, you win the game,
You have a wardancer after you won the coinflip, you win the game.
You have any form of carry over after you win the coinflip, you win the game
...
I could go over and over, this system was clearly the most problematic aspect of the game and I'm far from being the only one to have this opinion, many other players agrees including a lot of top players.
This isn't true, in fact CDPR proved many time that they're competent at balancing their game.This is part of my concern. I don't think they have done a very good job of adjusting the game, ever. It's an opinion and a harsh one but it's the truth
Remember the PFI, Radovid control, invincible gold trebuchet with permanent resiliency, the Foglets, 3 points per turn Gold weathers ect
They fixed all those issues perfectly well.
The problem with CDPR isn't their unability to fix their game but their bad habit to change the game from A to Z (because, peoples talk about HC since it's the most "extreme" change they've made but this isn't the first time they change all the cards and all the mechanics altogether) and while, as an artist myself, I understand their feeling (yes, it often happens that you have an idea that you think is better than what you did before and end up changing everything you've made) I think they need to stop doing those kind of massive change and stick to what they have.
The problem when you always change everything is that your game is basically in a permanent beta state which is humanely impossible to balance because their is way too many new things that are going to interract with each other every single time.
But I think they learned that lesson and they want to stick with what they did with HC. They chanced everything one last time so the game is closer to what they wanted and now they can start improving the game by fixing the issues as they show up. The reason why I think they're in this way of thinking is the fact that they released the game with HC and the provision system (which allows for more flexibility for balancing the cards without changing their effect).
We will see I guess but if they stick to what they made now and stop changing everything (it doesn't mean they can't rework a few cards here and there) I trust them for doing a good job at balancing the game.