The Lodge of Sorceresses(all spoilers)

+

The Lodge of Sorceresses(all spoilers)

  • Philippa Eilhart

    Votes: 120 29.5%
  • Margarita Laux-Antille

    Votes: 51 12.5%
  • Keira Metz

    Votes: 89 21.9%
  • Sabrina Glevissig

    Votes: 10 2.5%
  • Sheala de Tancarville

    Votes: 20 4.9%
  • Francesca Findabair

    Votes: 28 6.9%
  • Ida Emean

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Assire var Anahid

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Fringilla Vigo

    Votes: 77 18.9%

  • Total voters
    407
I have been wondering, is it anywhere stated how old Margarita is? Or maybe someone has an idea?

It's not stated. One thing that I think is sure is the that she was younger than Tissaia, but that doesn't help much. Everything else is left for open interpretation. When she, Tissaia and Yennefer are talking about old days in Time of Contempt, we get to know that just as Yen, Rita was one of Tissaia's pupils. Later she replaced her as an Aretuza rector. The problem is that we don't know how old Tissaia was exactly, but when I look at Yennefer - Margarita relationship I didn't have a feeling that Margeritta could be Yen's teacher in past. I would say that she was an older friend from school (BTW is there stated anywhere how long does education in Aretuza last?). So if Yen was in her 90ties than I would say that Rita was somwehere in early 00, so relatively young for being a rector but probably she was extremely talented as a granddaughter of Ilona Laux - Antille (famous name also could be helpful in taking her office). But it's all just my guessing :D Could be completely different
 
BTW is there stated anywhere how long does education in Aretuza last?). So if Yen was in her 90ties than I would say that Rita was somwehere in early 00, so relatively young for being a rector but probably she was extremely talented as a granddaughter of Ilona Laux - Antille (famous name also could be helpful in taking her office). But it's all just my guessing Could be completely different

It is stated in the video game compendium of the witcher (written by CDPR) that it takes quite some time studying at Aretuza, remember that Triss is also considered a very young sorceress. We know that Philippa is around 300 years and wel Tissaia is then way older (since she was also the mentor of Phil).
They can at Aretuza choose at some point to go into the world or be appointed and taught by a personal sorceress (as some kind of mentor).

But yes i agree on your point that she was a very good friend of Yennefer (I believe it is even stated somewhere).
 
Though I know it's only mentioned that my Rita is blond, I never imagined her hair to be short cut, like the game's version. I hate that version because her model does her no justice, and worse is how she is portrayed as weak etc. The people who imprisoned Game-Rita would be obliterated if they were to cross book Rita, I mean she's even stronger than Philippa, and far stronger than Triss.
But I always imagined her a bit like Keira, just not as short, skinny as her. And we don't exactly know how strong Rita is, just that she exceeds Philippa by how far we don't know, but she showed no fatigue when Philippa clenched her eyelids and quivered, and poor panting Triss.

We do not know if Rita is stronger than Philippa. Philippa might be more experienced as a battle mage (fought in the Battle at Sodden Hill and led the Thanedd Coup), Rita might be better at teleprojection etc.

I have been wondering, is it anywhere stated how old Margarita is? Or maybe someone has an idea?

I also guess that she might be from Yen's and Sabrina's generation - around 100 years old.

granddaughter of Ilona Laux - Antille

Canon or fan fiction? I believe Ilona was mentioned only once in the saga and nor Geralt neither Vilgefortz claimed that Rita is her granddaughter (though they are likely relatives).

We know that Philippa is around 300 years and wel Tissaia is then way older (since she was also the mentor of Phil).

We do not know it. Dandelion claims she is probably not younger than 300 years. Firstly, Dandelion usually exaggerates. Secondly, he admits he is not sure.
 
Canon or fan fiction? I believe Ilona was mentioned only once in the saga and nor Geralt neither Vilgefortz claimed that Rita is her granddaughter (though they are likely relatives).

You're right. Ilona is mentioned probably only once when Geralt and Vilgefortz are discussing paintings. English Witcher wikia claims that she is Rita grandmother. In polish it is "ancestress and maybe even a grandmother of Margerita" which is a safer option. Anyway even if she's not her grandmother, but they are relatives it doesn't change my point.
 
Last edited:
We do not know if Rita is stronger than Philippa. Philippa might be more experienced as a battle mage (fought in the Battle at Sodden Hill and led the Thanedd Coup), Rita might be better at teleprojection etc.

And considering that Rita is a teacher at Aretuza, it makes sense that she's better than the other sorceresses with such spells. She had a lot of practice.
 
And considering that Rita is a teacher at Aretuza, it makes sense that she's better than the other sorceresses with such spells. She had a lot of practice.

That doesn't have to mean anything. Maybe she decided to teach because she thought she would be better at teaching people how to use magic rather than using it herself. There are many examples of people who do just that. Of course, that doesn't have to be the case with Rita - we just don't know.

Discussing who is stronger or weaker is, in my opinion, unproductive. You cannot really conclude anything. Most of the time, the writers have to make their characters weaker or stronger, depending on the situation, just so that they could convey a certain idea or to show how the character would react in certain situations. There are many such inconsistencies both in the books and games.
 
In terms of power, books point to one person - Vilgefortz. He was considered the most powerful sorcerer alive. And by far.

Other mages are sometimes quoted for some particular feat that they could achieve. For example, Philippa was unique with her ability to transform into an animal. This was supposed to be an extremely difficult magic and far beyond abilities of sorceresses like Yennefer or Triss.

Also, let's remember that the lack of information about abilities of different mages is actually very lore-friendly. In this world, no mage really advertises what he/she can do. Such knowledge could prove to be dangerous to him/her.

Of course, there are rumours, suspicions etc. For example, many mages thought that the only sorceress who could possibly be compared to Vilgefortz, was Francesca. But nobody really knew what "that old elven witch could do".
 
Even though I consider it unproductive, I'll play along :D

@ammarmar
I mostly agree with your post. But I wouldn't say Vilgerfortz was considered to be by far the most powerful sorcerer alive. I like to see him more as a brilliant mastermind, while he was no doubt one of the most powerful mages.

I suppose that power, although it depends on the talent and work, mostly comes with experience and age.

In terms of power, I think Tissaia de Vries would be one of the few who could be considered really, really powerful. She was an Archmage, one of the most respected sorcerers alive and probably most respected at Aretuza where she was a rectoress before Rita succeeded her. She was a teacher of many famous mages including Yennefer and Phillipa. During the Thanned coup she more or less by herself stopped everything and started interrogating everyone. After that she lifted the whole magical blockade with a single spell (something which Keira never saw in her life) and then retreated because she was neutral. Tissaia was also one of the few mages who conducted examinations on the elder blood gene long ago (Francesca was added later because she was young at the time). Among those mages was also Hen Gedymdeith, the oldest sorcerer alive, but there is not much information about him. The reason we don't see much more of Tissaia's power is supposedly because she wanted to remain neutral.

Phillipa was also very powerful, probably at the same level as Vilgerfortz if not more powerful. She was one of the leaders during the coup. Also, Tissaia said that Phillipa was one of her most talented students. She was one of the few to have mastered the art of polymorphy. And supposedly she was 300+ years old.

Francesca and Ida are a mystery since not much is revealed about them but since they were old elven mages they were probably very powerful. Francesca's father was an elven sage, from who she inherited some of her talents.

After all we also have Avalach, an elven sage, and quite possibly he was the most powerful one. It depends on how you look at it, is he a sorcerer? I presume one could consider him as such. In the books he doesn't seem much interested in flaunting his power, although there is some of that. But in the W3, Avalach was the one who hid Ciri on the Isle of Mists, he calmed Ciri with a spell at Kaer Morhen, he was the lead one who used the Sunstone, and he created that barrier at the end of the game that Yen could only tear a hole into. I'm not sure if he was responsible for the actual occurrence of the Conjunction of the Spheres. And if we consider the W3, then we would have to mention Caranthir also. Caranthir was probably one of the most important factors of the Wild Hunt's power.

But Tissaia, Avalach or Vilgerfortz were not members of the lodge so this might even be considered off-topic. As far as the Lodge is concerned I would say - Phillipa, Sheala and Francesca were the most powerful members. Maybe Ida too, but there is not enough information.

Again the inconsistencies... Why would the lodge send Keira and Sabrina, supposedly young and inexperienced sorceresses, to capture Vilgerfortz in his castle? From what we have seen Vilgerforz would have obliterated them without problems. It doesn't make sense. It would be more appropriate for Sheala or Phillipa (or both) to go.
 
Again the inconsistencies... Why would the lodge send Keira and Sabrina, supposedly young and inexperienced sorceresses, to capture Vilgerfortz in his castle? From what we have seen Vilgerforz would have obliterated them without problems. It doesn't make sense. It would be more appropriate for Sheala or Phillipa (or both) to go.

Maybe he's just not as strong as you think? Don't forget Yennefer held her own in a fight against him, despite her terrible condition. Vilgefortz is hugely overrated. Seriously, what's the most impressive thing that he did? Defeated Geralt and killed Regis. Yeah...That's not the most powerful sorcerer material. And considering that he was killed by Geralt, Yen and Regis, I think it makes perfect sense that Sabrina, Keira and a few mercenaries would beat him.
 
Last edited:
Maybe he's just not as strong as you think? Don't forget Yennefer held her own in a fight against him, despite her terrible condition. Vilgefortz is hugely overrated. Seriously, what's the most impressive thing that he did? Defeated Geralt and killed Regis. Yeah...That's not the most powerful sorcerer material. And considering that he was killed by Geralt, Yen and Regis, I think it makes perfect sense that Sabrina, Keira and a few mercenaries would beat him.

Yeah I agree with you on this, plus it's stated that he was just very talented at such a young age which was kind of rare.
 
Maybe he's just not as strong as you think?

Vilgerfortz has been appointed the leader of the Chapter after the battle of Sodden Hill. He was more or less the leader of all the Northern mages who weren't neutral. I think that alone should count for something.

I think one should consider powerful somebody who has thoroughly kicked Geralt's ass twice. And both times he didn't kill him just because of his arrogance (first time 'to give him a lesson', second time because of not using magic to finish him off but just his staff).
Yes, the first time, Geralt has faced him after probably the most wonderful night of his life, not expecting he would need to fight against sorcerers, Scoia'tael, Redanian soldiers and finally Vilgerfortz. Yes, the second time, he was tired, he has lost his friends, he had to go through hordes of soldiers just to get to fight Vilgerfortz. And finally, yes, if Geralt had a proper sword and his elixirs, they would have probably been evened out.

Don't forget Yennefer held her own in a fight against him, despite her terrible condition.

I have no idea how you came to such a conclusion. As far as I remember, Yennefer didn't hold her own against him at all neither the first time nor the second. Yes, the first time she was perhaps outwitted and was finally overpowered by his spell. Yes, the second time she has been tortured and was imprisoned for months so we can assume she couldn't do much. The reason she wasn't crushed (again arrogance - just to show that he can do it that way) by Vilgerfortz was that Regis went at him, and seconds later he was turned into a splinter.

Vilgefortz is hugely overrated.

Once again, I like to view Vilgerfortz more as a mastermind. But to say he wasn't that powerful would not be accurate in my opinion. He was flaunting in his cape, fighting both of them, while giving them a lecture - and was winning big time.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to portray Vilgefortz as some insanely overpowered lunatic (but the books kind of did in fact), nor am I trying to diminish Yennefer's or Geralt's power. I have to return to my previous point - this is done solely for the purpose of the narrative -

Discussing who is stronger or weaker is, in my opinion, unproductive. You cannot really conclude anything. Most of the time, the writers have to make their characters weaker or stronger, depending on the situation, just so that they could convey a certain idea or to show how the character would react in certain situations.
 
Didn't he led all the mages in the battle of Sodden agaisnt Nilfgaard? That's something.

Well, he was a mercenary before he became a mage, so it makes sense that he would be the one leading them into the battle.

Vilgerfortz has been appointed the leader of the Chapter after the battle of Sodden Hill. He was more or less the leader of all the Northern mages who weren't neutral. I think that alone should count for something.

Because he engineered the truce between the Northern Kindoms and the Nilfgaardian Empire. I doubt his magical power had much to do with his appointment. And he only managed to control three mages: Artaud Terranova, Lydia van Bradevoort and Fercart. Philippa had a much bigger following.

Yes, the first time she was perhaps outwitted and was finally overpowered by his spell.


Well, the first time it wasn't really a fight. She was overpowered by his magical trap. But Vilgefortz himself was surprised that she survived. I'd say that in a duel in wich both of them are at their best, Yen has a decent chance of winning or at least giving him a lot of trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to portray Vilgefortz as some insanely overpowered lunatic (but the books kind of did in fact), nor am I trying to diminish Yennefer's or Geralt's power.


Yeah...He is overpowered wich I hate. I hate overpowered characters in general (especially when there's no good explanation for their power). But the strongest mage? Nah. He's definitely powerful, but I doubt he can be compared with the likes of Tissaia, Francesca or Philippa. And I think that scene with the Lodge is very telling. There's no way Philippa would trust Sabrina and Keira with such an important mission if she wasn't sure in their succes.
 
Discussing who is stronger or weaker is, in my opinion, unproductive. You cannot really conclude anything. Most of the time, the writers have to make their characters weaker or stronger, depending on the situation, just so that they could convey a certain idea or to show how the character would react in certain situations.

Right, unfortunately all we can do is guessing. Good example is in one of interviews with AS:

-when Ciri took power from the fire she needed to give up magic or destroy the closest ones. Could experienced mage, like Yennefer, take power from the fire? What would have happened?
- I have no idea, because I write novels, not Role Playing games guide books. The plot didn't demanded Yennefer to do so, so I didn't have to think about that. Under certain curcminstances, I would probably gave her such a power - maybe if I planned in plot a task for her - dengerous and risky? But as I said, I didn't have to. Story is an a action plot, drama, not a bag for for an author's ideas.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071215...pl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=442
 
Last edited:
By the way, I just remembered that Vilgefortz was fooled by Fringilla's magic. Eat that, the "strongest" sorcerer :harhar:
 
Yeah...He is overpowered wich I hate. I hate overpowered characters in general (especially when there's no good explanation for their power).
Especially when he is in that muh power phase (that is from ToS on), since that his parts and dialogues seem being written by another person. :p
 
Top Bottom