Very nice Katar with two flintlock pistols added to the design.
?
What's so shocking about the katar? During the early days of firearms technology, all KINDS of crazy weapons were developed.
What's so shocking about the katar? During the early days of firearms technology, all KINDS of crazy weapons were developed.
They have more of a steampunk sort of style though, don't you think? All of that polished wood and decorative metalwork. Much too ornate for cyberpunk,
Here's a gun I'd like to see in cyberpunk, all juiced up on Electrothermal...
The Lemat revolver. That's a 9-shot .44 cal revolver, built *around* a single-shot 20ga shotgun. .44 ETE is something like 6d6, meanwhile the 20ga isn;t going to be doing a lot, even ET, we're talking, what 4d6+3 (Hard to tell what to do with a half-die), but you could put special munitions in there. Meanwhile it;s still a 9-shot .44 revolver. And it's huge.
here's it next to a 1911 .45 cal pistol. There's a borg buster for you.
The Lemat revolver. That's a 9-shot .44 cal revolver, built *around* a single-shot 20ga shotgun. .44 ETE is something like 6d6, meanwhile the 20ga isn;t going to be doing a lot, even ET, we're talking, what 4d6+3 (Hard to tell what to do with a half-die), but you could put special munitions in there. Meanwhile it;s still a 9-shot .44 revolver. And it's huge.
Borgs generally have about 25 SP armour. Unless that ETE .44 is carrying AP, it will not penetrate on an average hit (6D6 average = ~20-21), even before BTM or additional armour. If it is loaded with AP, dam after penetrating is halved. Take a while to down a Borg with an RoF of 1.
Which is why you hunt with longarms or pistols packing HEP rounds. Preferably longarms armed with HEP, even.
I've always grinned at the damage for a .44 compared to a 7.62x 51 NATO. If you've ever seen what they do to targets, you would too. Not that a .44 isn't potent, but 1,000 or so ft-lbs at muzzle compared to 2550 ft-lbs...yeah.
In other words, if a .44 does 4D6 damage, a 7.62 would do roughly 10D6 damage. Yeaaah.
In Cyberpunk 2013, they did that! IIRC, 7.62 did something like 11D6 damage at point blank. Not a fun game to get shot in. Of course in 2013, you did get a Dodge roll vs gunfire. Solos got a boost. Of course. Nomads didn't. Of course. Heh.
In Cpunk 2020, they averaged the damage across ranges and reduced rifle damages. I like to think of it as overpenetration compensation. Why that doesn't apply to the .44...whatever.
Anyway. Lesson being, hunt borgs with a Big Fuckin Gun. Not a handgun. Unless it's a handgun made for borgs. In which case, again...get a bigger gun.
Which is why you hunt with longarms or pistols packing HEP rounds. Preferably longarms armed with HEP, even.
I've always grinned at the damage for a .44 compared to a 7.62x 51 NATO. If you've ever seen what they do to targets, you would too. Not that a .44 isn't potent, but 1,000 or so ft-lbs at muzzle compared to 2550 ft-lbs...yeah.
In other words, if a .44 does 4D6 damage, a 7.62 would do roughly 10D6 damage. Yeaaah.
In Cyberpunk 2013, they did that! IIRC, 7.62 did something like 11D6 damage at point blank. Not a fun game to get shot in. Of course in 2013, you did get a Dodge roll vs gunfire. Solos got a boost. Of course. Nomads didn't. Of course. Heh.
In Cpunk 2020, they averaged the damage across ranges and reduced rifle damages. I like to think of it as overpenetration compensation. Why that doesn't apply to the .44...whatever.
Anyway. Lesson being, hunt borgs with a Big Fuckin Gun. Not a handgun. Unless it's a handgun made for borgs. In which case, again...get a bigger gun.
I just think it;s a freaking neat pistol is all. 9 rounds of .44 wrapped around a freaking shotgun, come on!
Besides, everyone needs a sidearm, even borg hunters. May as well have one that can put a dent in them...plus of course, not everyone is a full borg. 6d6 can ruin someone;s day PDQ.
As for pistol vs rifle damages, larger, heavier slugs are generally better at 'dumping' their kinetic energy into a target and tend not to overpenetrate compared to smaller faster rounds...so even though the rifle round has a higher velocity and more potential energy, it's more likely to punch right through, thus wasting a lot of that power, while pistol slugs dump all that energy into the target, doing decent damage with less energy. Also, a .44 mag is 4d6 (non-ET'd), while a 7.62 NATO is 6d6, so it still does considerably (1.5x) more damage than the handgun. Sure, it has 2.5x the ft-lbs, but that doesn't always track linearly with damage dealt to the human body.
All that said, I think they way undervalued the 9mm-10mm range. Only 1 point of damage between a .38 and a 9mm? Only 1 point between a 9mm and a .45? Likewise, 1 point between a 10mm and a .45, but 3 points difference between a 10mm and a 11mm, and 7 points between a 11mm and a 12mm?
But hey, it's a game. Sometimes things need to be tweaked to work fairly within the mechanics.
Besides, everyone needs a sidearm, even borg hunters. May as well have one that can put a dent in them...plus of course, not everyone is a full borg. 6d6 can ruin someone;s day PDQ.
As for pistol vs rifle damages, larger, heavier slugs are generally better at 'dumping' their kinetic energy into a target and tend not to overpenetrate compared to smaller faster rounds...so even though the rifle round has a higher velocity and more potential energy, it's more likely to punch right through, thus wasting a lot of that power, while pistol slugs dump all that energy into the target, doing decent damage with less energy. Also, a .44 mag is 4d6 (non-ET'd), while a 7.62 NATO is 6d6, so it still does considerably (1.5x) more damage than the handgun. Sure, it has 2.5x the ft-lbs, but that doesn't always track linearly with damage dealt to the human body.
All that said, I think they way undervalued the 9mm-10mm range. Only 1 point of damage between a .38 and a 9mm? Only 1 point between a 9mm and a .45? Likewise, 1 point between a 10mm and a .45, but 3 points difference between a 10mm and a 11mm, and 7 points between a 11mm and a 12mm?
But hey, it's a game. Sometimes things need to be tweaked to work fairly within the mechanics.
Here's a gun I'd like to see in cyberpunk, all juiced up on Electrothermal...
The Lemat revolver. That's a 9-shot .44 cal revolver, built *around* a single-shot 20ga shotgun. .44 ETE is something like 6d6, meanwhile the 20ga isn;t going to be doing a lot, even ET, we're talking, what 4d6+3 (Hard to tell what to do with a half-die), but you could put special munitions in there. Meanwhile it;s still a 9-shot .44 revolver. And it's huge.
here's it next to a 1911 .45 cal pistol. There's a borg buster for you.
Not to get too pedantic, but there is a WORLD of difference between a .44 caliber and a .44 magnum... especially when speaking of antique firearms...
The.44 caliber has a damage of 2d6+2, pretty much identical to a .45 caliber. The magnum round has a higher damage because of the amount of powder in the shell, propelling the round at greater velocity. The magnum also uses modern powder, while the .44 used black powder, a much less effective load.
For comparison, the second round is a .44 cal, the last is a .44 magnum.
Secondly, I don't think ETE on a shotgun would be all that effective. Especially with a barrel that short...
As I said, I;d like to see a modern version. That's a black powder weapon after all.
A modern centerfire version would almost certainly be magnum.
As for the barrel...that's a 6.75" barrel on the pistol section, that's pretty damned healthy. The shotgun barrel is pretty short, for a shotgun, I'll grant you. About 6". But it doesn;t have to be ET,\you could use it for micro-grenades or something
A modern centerfire version would almost certainly be magnum.
As for the barrel...that's a 6.75" barrel on the pistol section, that's pretty damned healthy. The shotgun barrel is pretty short, for a shotgun, I'll grant you. About 6". But it doesn;t have to be ET,\you could use it for micro-grenades or something
Absolutely. Early firearms technology, they were still crafting weapons around a style aesthetic, in similar fashion to ornate hilts, handles, and scabbards of the era. More Duesenberg, then top alcohol fuel dragster.
Those Dueseys *are* pretty, though.
I should have gotten here earlier, I so wanted to get in on the Kel-tec/Hi-point bit being an owner of one and operator of the other.
In reality polymer 1-shots don't really exist. If your product and QC are so bad that the device frequently jams, breaks, or explodes you either don't sell sufficient units to stay in business or get sued to oblivion like Bryco. While separating Saturday night specials and polymer 1-shots is a personal language choice for me, I think its necessary given that SNS's are cheap, easily concealed handguns while P1S's are cheap, unreliable handguns which don't have concealment as a prerequisite.
The only 'one shot' guns really out there are improvised weapons (re: flare guns and zip guns) illegally made knockoffs (Kyber Pass anyone?) or that one that those numbskulls made on a $7000 3-d printer. Our lovely corrupt corporations aren't at the level that they can sell absolute crap and get away with it yet.
In reality polymer 1-shots don't really exist. If your product and QC are so bad that the device frequently jams, breaks, or explodes you either don't sell sufficient units to stay in business or get sued to oblivion like Bryco. While separating Saturday night specials and polymer 1-shots is a personal language choice for me, I think its necessary given that SNS's are cheap, easily concealed handguns while P1S's are cheap, unreliable handguns which don't have concealment as a prerequisite.
The only 'one shot' guns really out there are improvised weapons (re: flare guns and zip guns) illegally made knockoffs (Kyber Pass anyone?) or that one that those numbskulls made on a $7000 3-d printer. Our lovely corrupt corporations aren't at the level that they can sell absolute crap and get away with it yet.
Don't forget, you don't need a license to buy a 'one-shot' from a vending machine.
One-Shot is something of a misnomer...
Many people think that hese weapons have an enclosed magazine and cannot be reloaded, this is simply not the case, although there is at least one version that does specifically mention not being able to be easily reloaded, most are just really cheaply made handguns.
Instead the simply refer to a piece so poorly made an unreliable that it is a bad idea to use it at all, much less more than once. The reason these weapons are so popular is that most people in CP 2020 don't actually get in a gunfight with anyone, but everyone feels the need to be armed. So they act as more of a deterrent than a weapon, which means they are somewhat useless, which means people treat them as fashion accessories. So you get gaudy bright colors made cheaply with crap materials. These are for the high school kids who wanna feel cool, the low level corporates who want to feel a little less helpless, the lowest street thugs who want to look tough etc....
No professional uses one of these, or would be caught dead with one in their hands...
Budget Arms, Dai Lung... they signify the lowest quality crap out there... but their guns are flashy, they are made for looks over use, and they are very cheap. They sell to people who either never intend on actually using them, or they sell to ghetto rats hoping to use them to trade up as soon as possible.
Many people think that hese weapons have an enclosed magazine and cannot be reloaded, this is simply not the case, although there is at least one version that does specifically mention not being able to be easily reloaded, most are just really cheaply made handguns.
Instead the simply refer to a piece so poorly made an unreliable that it is a bad idea to use it at all, much less more than once. The reason these weapons are so popular is that most people in CP 2020 don't actually get in a gunfight with anyone, but everyone feels the need to be armed. So they act as more of a deterrent than a weapon, which means they are somewhat useless, which means people treat them as fashion accessories. So you get gaudy bright colors made cheaply with crap materials. These are for the high school kids who wanna feel cool, the low level corporates who want to feel a little less helpless, the lowest street thugs who want to look tough etc....
No professional uses one of these, or would be caught dead with one in their hands...
Budget Arms, Dai Lung... they signify the lowest quality crap out there... but their guns are flashy, they are made for looks over use, and they are very cheap. They sell to people who either never intend on actually using them, or they sell to ghetto rats hoping to use them to trade up as soon as possible.
Actually, most budget Arms guns aren't Polymer 1-shots. Only the Auto-3 really fits that description. The vast majority of Budget Arms guns are kind of misnamed. They;re usually at least ST and often times more expensive than others.
The C-13 is the best 5mm you can buy being ST reliability with 8-shots.
Meanwhile the Astra Style 6 and the Czar beretta are both UR, and have either fewer rounds or shorter range.
In the Light Pistol brackets, the POS (clever, right?) guns are the Astra Style 6, the Czar, the Browning 25, and the Dai Lung, all super cheap, all Unreliable.
The budget is one of the more expensive ones and as stated, is ST reliability
The budget Arms Laser-9 is not the best 9mm you can buy, but it isn't bad. ST reliability, built in laser sight, full auto-capable. It's much more accurate than other full-auto machine pistols, and can do a 3-round burst, which is uncommon. It's also not the cheapest. Honestly, if you need a full auto 9mm, the Laser-9 is about your best bet. But it's expensive, ironically. Only a Glock costs more in the 9mm machine pistol bracket.
In the Medium pistols category, the POS guns are the Fashion Gun 9 and the Teen Dreem (both posterboys for the POS), the Starrior 4, the Kang Tau, and towards the higher end of POS guns, the Dai Lung Streetmaster and LeRoi Maxi-10. Exceot the last two, all these guns are under 100EB, all are unreliable, and some of them explode or melt under heavy use.
Meanwhile the other medium Budget Arms gun is the C-41, which is +1 WA, VR, and costs about 600eb, so most definately NOT a POS.
On to heavies, the Espinoza One-Shot is literally a POS, the Dai Lung Magnum is the king of the heavy POS, and, alas, yes, the one and only POS from budget Arms, is the Auto-3...BUT of the POS guns in this category, the Auto-3 is the most expensive and LEAST likely to explode (10% on a fumble instead of 60%)
In Very heavy there's really only one, the .44 Automag.
So I'ma call BS on budget Arms being a POS brand. Only one single model could be classed as a POS, and even then it's the best possible POS. All the rest are either average or exceptional and none of them are cheap.
but yea, stay away from anything by Dai Lung
The C-13 is the best 5mm you can buy being ST reliability with 8-shots.
Meanwhile the Astra Style 6 and the Czar beretta are both UR, and have either fewer rounds or shorter range.
In the Light Pistol brackets, the POS (clever, right?) guns are the Astra Style 6, the Czar, the Browning 25, and the Dai Lung, all super cheap, all Unreliable.
The budget is one of the more expensive ones and as stated, is ST reliability
The budget Arms Laser-9 is not the best 9mm you can buy, but it isn't bad. ST reliability, built in laser sight, full auto-capable. It's much more accurate than other full-auto machine pistols, and can do a 3-round burst, which is uncommon. It's also not the cheapest. Honestly, if you need a full auto 9mm, the Laser-9 is about your best bet. But it's expensive, ironically. Only a Glock costs more in the 9mm machine pistol bracket.
In the Medium pistols category, the POS guns are the Fashion Gun 9 and the Teen Dreem (both posterboys for the POS), the Starrior 4, the Kang Tau, and towards the higher end of POS guns, the Dai Lung Streetmaster and LeRoi Maxi-10. Exceot the last two, all these guns are under 100EB, all are unreliable, and some of them explode or melt under heavy use.
Meanwhile the other medium Budget Arms gun is the C-41, which is +1 WA, VR, and costs about 600eb, so most definately NOT a POS.
On to heavies, the Espinoza One-Shot is literally a POS, the Dai Lung Magnum is the king of the heavy POS, and, alas, yes, the one and only POS from budget Arms, is the Auto-3...BUT of the POS guns in this category, the Auto-3 is the most expensive and LEAST likely to explode (10% on a fumble instead of 60%)
In Very heavy there's really only one, the .44 Automag.
So I'ma call BS on budget Arms being a POS brand. Only one single model could be classed as a POS, and even then it's the best possible POS. All the rest are either average or exceptional and none of them are cheap.
but yea, stay away from anything by Dai Lung
Must be something other groups dealt with, because I've never seen someone in a game call anything that didn't explode or melt, or was marked as UR a POS, nor have I seen the term exclusively used to describe non-reloadable weapons. I generally see it as being equivalent to 'Junk Guns' and thus sometimes interchanged with Saturday Night Special. Personally if I were to use all three terms in context; Junk guns would be volatile/melt prone guns, POS to describe any UR rated gun that is otherwise stable, and SNS would be any cheap, pocket-able gun with no qualifier for quality.
That being said I have rarely purchased a handgun smaller then heavy and with no real need to look at the lower quality guns.
That being said I have rarely purchased a handgun smaller then heavy and with no real need to look at the lower quality guns.