Threads merged. Now a little moderator remark, as this problem keeps popping up and 1 to 1 private messages don't seem to be effective:
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:scold:
Users are kindly asked to browse or search the forum first BEFORE starting a new thread as there might be already one that covers issues you want to discuss. Doing so will help us keep the forum tidy for all users to enjoy. The search functionality on the new forum works rather well and browsing a few first pages won't hurt either. This is a forum, not Twitter.
:scold:
Not necessarily. Just make Geralt only have three glass recipients instead of infinite, and he can only carry those three. If you prepared a wrong potion, then you have to throw away the content of one of the three recipients in order to make another, thus losing the potion you had prepared.
About toxicity, you would still have to meditate to prepare a new potion, since it would take time for Geralt to mix the ingredients - again, if you haven't prepared the right potions you'll lose them. About consuming one instead of having to activate all three, it's better like this in my opinion, since you can still have a margin of variations even with the three potions you have prepared, while not making the game easier or "dumbed down".
You can also have a thirty seconds delay from when you drink them to when the effects kick in, perhaps even making you a little more vulnerable until they do, thus discouraging the player to only drink a potion once they're already in a fight. Getting into battle prepared would still be crucial in order to survive a tough fight.
You see, it is possible to have a system that makes sense and is lore-consistent, even more realistic than the previous iterations, for me. Activating Geralt's metabolism is an idea that I hate and find absurd, and I feel like it would really negatively affect my immersion in the game.
Well, it actually isn't lore-consistent, Geralt meditates and performs a ritual when taking battle potions, they take a toll on his body, so drinking them on the fly is still not as described in the books. So if lore inconsistency is what you dislike, then I'm afraid the system you propose is still flawed in that regard.
Furthermore, you're still left with the gameplay issue of a potion running out too quickly or having an active effect for too long, which the new system is trying to address. I think it's fair to assume that the developers know what potion effects are going to be included, unlike us, and seem to believe that this is the best way to implement them. The mechanic seems to be too specific for me to think otherwise.
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That's what the delay between activation and effects would be for, to represent the toll taken on Geralt's body - I also proposed that he could be more vulnerable in those thirty-or-whatever seconds. Flawed, perhaps, but at least it's not completely inconsistent with both lore and realism.
Still, how would this system be less balanced in the potion's effects duration than activating all three potions at once on command? You'd just have to be more careful before finding yourself against an enemy without having adequately prepared (which is even better, in my opinion), but the two systems are mostly equivalent for everything else.
"Drink now, activate later" system: You drink one to three potions during meditation, and you activate them all at once whenever you think you're in a tough fight. To cancel the effects or drink another set of potions, you must meditate again and the previous potions are lost.
"Prepare now, drink later" system: You make one to three potions during meditation, and you drink one, two, or all of them whenever you think you're about to be in a tough fight (or risk drinking them during it). To cancel the effects or prepare another set of potions, you must meditate again and the previous potions are lost.
Perhaps it's as you say and there's something I'm not grasping about this system, and maybe when I'll play the game I'll see things differently, but I really can't get to like this idea, for now. Which is really a shame.
I think both systems could be easily balanced:
"Drink now, activate later" system: there is a certain time that has to pass from activating potions until they take full effect. So you still have to be vigilant and you're in trouble if you get ambushed, because even if you hit the activate button, there will still be something like 15-30 seconds before potions start to work.
"Prepare now, drink later" system:: you can drink potions during a fight if you were careless, but you risk getting yourself killed while doing it as the drinking animations take certain amount of time after activation.
"Drink now, activate later" system: there is a certain time that has to pass from activating potions until they take full effect. So you still have to be vigilant and you're in trouble if you get ambushed, because even if you hit the activate button, there will still be something like 15-30 seconds before potions start to work.
"Prepare now, drink later" system:: you can drink potions during a fight if you were careless, but you risk getting yourself killed while doing it as the drinking animations take certain amount of time after activation.
Honestly, if the game is anything like TW1 or TW2, then I probably won't be using more than the same 3 or 4 potions over and over throughout the entire game.
Basically all potion drinking can be considered a "get out of jail card" regardless when it is consumed! But that's NOT what I was saying, what I'm saying and others have said as well, is that drinking a potion hours or days before needing to use it is "unnatural", as someone said, if you drink a Redbull now, it takes affect NOW! In all cases you have to be prepared with the right potions but again, using the potion while in a tight fight is more natural than taking it 5 hours ago and "releasing" its affect.
What I don't understand is why the devs would want to make that change, it adds nothing to the game play except to dumb it down (make it easy or easier)!
So if he eats an extra Donut, can he release its affect eight hours later to get that satisfying buzz?
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For gameplay purposes, sure. My problem with CDPR's system is that it makes no sense from a realism, plausibility, non-absurdity and similar words point of view.
That's not the issue that I brought up. What I said was: "you're still left with the gameplay issue of a potion running out too quickly or having an active effect for too long, which the new system is trying to address." This means that you're stuck with either a short or long timer. The short timer is more balanced as it doesn't let you clean out an entire swamp of drowners before your potion runs out but it suffers from, well, being too short sometimes. As I've said in previous posts, you only need to look back to the Draug fight at the end of Chapter 2 of TW2. By the time you reached the boss, your potion effects had worn off - this is precisely what the "holding" mechanic's for, it's there so that you can activate the potion when you actually need it, not waste it while getting there.
So less boring, standard potion use like drinking Swallow because it gives you a nice health regen for 3 hours. Instead, it keeps the unique feel of the mechanic used for potions in TW2 while getting rid of the downside, which often made them utterly useless. It gives each potion purpose - you consumed it because you will only need it for a short amount of time in a very specific situation. If you forget the BS explanation they've given (and hopefully won't use in-game), then you can think of it in a more logical sense. Maybe Geralt's adrenaline makes the potion effects really kick in (i.e. when the player decides it's time to use the potion).
That's not how it's supposed to work but if you want to exaggerate, feel free to. You're meant to take the potion before entering, say, and Ice Giant's lair. You don't know where exactly the giant is, but you've investigated and know he's somewhere around. You drink your potions so that they're ready to go once you fight the giant and then you do your thing.
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You expect realism and plausibility from a game mechanic that is about a guy that went through mutations which made him basically a superhuman; a guy that drinks potions that would most probably kill or heavily damage an ordinary human being to furthuer enhance his abilities? Right.
There are some character attributes that we all accept as part of the "fantasy" that we are playing but there are others that are harder to accept, for me, as well as others, drinking a potion has always been accepted as drinking and the affect taken place immediately (unless its a slow poison and we the players know its a slow poison) . Now we are asked to suspend our natural understanding of how drink/food works - I still do not understand why it needed to be done!!
I guess what really bothers me is the ability to "turn it on/activate it" at will! So, when its in your stomach, is it in a separate compartment, does the Witcher have two stomach's?
Also, seems like the closer we look at the character of the Witcher, I for one, feel like he was not well conceived character in the original books (if he could "suspend" reactions to potions" in the books!! But that's just me. Also, if this has never been in any of the previous games, why do it now, its an unnecessary change!
I guess what really bothers me is the ability to "turn it on/activate it" at will! So, when its in your stomach, is it in a separate compartment, does the Witcher have two stomach's?
Also, seems like the closer we look at the character of the Witcher, I for one, feel like he was not well conceived character in the original books (if he could "suspend" reactions to potions" in the books!! But that's just me. Also, if this has never been in any of the previous games, why do it now, its an unnecessary change!
You repeatedly pointed out how bad this system is. How about you present us your alternative concept for a change.
Keep in mind though that it still has to fulfill all the requirements CDPR seem to have set for their system (rewards preparation, does not influence game balance negatively, allows periods of suspense in between expecting an encounter and the actual encounter aka does not run out too quickly, for special occasion aka not supposed to have active potions at all times, not suitable for "just in case" preparation aka preparing potions without expecting to actually need them should not go unpunished...).
The whole idea of meditating before drinking a potion is silly in my view (flaw in character design from the very beginning of the books), I could see meditating to enhance/sustain your magical abilities and even perhaps your physical abilities, but drinking potions!!!?
Potions are man made, using basic/natural ingredients that the Witcher knows the formulas to, that's it, there is no magic to it! Yes, perhaps some of the potions are "toxic" and only a Witcher could drink them but that's as far as I believe that potions should go. If a "normal" man/woman knew of the formula they should also be able to create them and drink at their own peril!
Dam, the more I think about this the more disappointed I am
Potions are man made, using basic/natural ingredients that the Witcher knows the formulas to, that's it, there is no magic to it! Yes, perhaps some of the potions are "toxic" and only a Witcher could drink them but that's as far as I believe that potions should go. If a "normal" man/woman knew of the formula they should also be able to create them and drink at their own peril!
Dam, the more I think about this the more disappointed I am
The whole idea of meditating before drinking a potion is silly in my view (flaw in character design from the very beginning of the books), I could see meditating to enhance/sustain your magical abilities and even perhaps your physical abilities, but drinking potions!!!?
Potions are man made, using basic/natural ingredients that the Witcher knows the formulas to, that's it, there is no magic to it! Yes, perhaps some of the potions are "toxic" and only a Witcher could drink them but that's as far as I believe that potions should go. If a "normal" man/woman knew of the formula they should also be able to create them and drink at their own peril!
Dam, the more I think about this the more disappointed I am
Still not seeing any input on how you think the potions game mechanics should work like. Indirectly, I can deduce that one shouldn't have to meditate to consume potions from your post, but that really is all there is.
Who ever said that the creation of the potions is a magical process? That was never how I envisioned it. I think you're feeding your own disappointment here, peteo. The way I imagined all along was simply... brewing a potion. Which requires time. Hence, the passage of time and staying in place. To be honest, not until your post did I think about it as even something remotely magical (the brewing, that is). I daresay you are insisting on seeing things in a crooked angle to stay in your angst. So much so that when aaden asks you to offer an alternative, your reply is to continue complaining about the system. Now, I don't believe that unless you have a solution, you're not allowed to voice criticism. Yet even so, I think you're a bit overdoing it, and you're constantly ignoring explanations.The whole idea of meditating before drinking a potion is silly in my view (flaw in character design from the very beginning of the books), I could see meditating to enhance/sustain your magical abilities and even perhaps your physical abilities, but drinking potions!!!?
Potions are man made, using basic/natural ingredients that the Witcher knows the formulas to, that's it, there is no magic to it! Yes, perhaps some of the potions are "toxic" and only a Witcher could drink them but that's as far as I believe that potions should go. If a "normal" man/woman knew of the formula they should also be able to create them and drink at their own peril!
Dam, the more I think about this the more disappointed I am
Your options come down to this:
A) Short lasting buffs. This route means two things:
A-1) Either you ruin the exploration aspect, since the devs will need to place the monsters at very obvious locations. Or:
A-2) You keep the mystery of exploration, but render the potions useless, since more often than not they'll be wasted. This in turn means two more things:
A-2-i) Potions aren't really necessary to begin with, since you can waste them and yet still survive. Which renders the entire aspect of the game pointless. Or:
A-2-ii) Potions remain necessary, but this in turn means a very frustrating gameplay (in the case where we kept exploration fun and surprising, rather than obvious), since you'll likely continue wasting the potions at wrong moments, and then constantly die in the fights.
Or the different route:
B ) Long lasting potions. But I think that there's a consensus that this is much less exciting and lowered-adrenaline gameplay. If not, I can explain what I think it is.
Every path involves giving up on something. That's why the "frozen" effects seem to me the best compromise between fun gameplay and relatively acceptable lore bending.
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To aaden: my feeling on drinking potions is in previous posts, which is that, when you drink it, it takes affect! None of this "activate later" BS!
To eliharel: I never said creating potions is a magical process, just the opposite! I said anyone could do it, all you need is the formula! (please read my post above again)
As to the alternative, use potions as they were used in TW2, you drink it, timer starts right there and then! Why change it now, its the last Witcher game!
To eliharel: I never said creating potions is a magical process, just the opposite! I said anyone could do it, all you need is the formula! (please read my post above again)
As to the alternative, use potions as they were used in TW2, you drink it, timer starts right there and then! Why change it now, its the last Witcher game!
I actually like the idea of preparing a couple of potions and keeping them ready at your belt. But still I wouldn't ditch the "once you decide to go for that potion it will be gone" mechanic. I think having potions lose their effects and becoming useless rather quickly is a decent solution. So, when you meditate before entering a lair or something, you prepare the potions you think you're going to need and Geralt puts them on his shoulderbelt - with only x slots available, so you don't just prepare anything and see what you'll actually drink. When the actual fight is imminent, you actually drink the potions. Potions you don't drink, go bad after a couple of ingame hours.
This is mostly the same as the current system, but with a different explanation, lore-wise. The only differences are an added layer of liberty: you can decide which potion you drink at which time - so you're not forced to activate all at once - and might even be allowed to prepare the same potion multiple times, if you think that's what you'll need. And the second difference: You'll need a bit of time to activate (i.e. drink) the potion, which is not a good idea in the thick of battle - but I'd keep that time short as Geralt would have a very streamlined process for that, so that you can do it immediately before combat or when you have a short time window to catch your breath.
Because it didn't work very well. More often than not, your potions would run out during a cutscene or dialogue before combat. Plus, the open world allows more exploration and isn't as straightforward as TW2's relatively small areas - it's not as predictable when exactly there will be a fight in TW3 as it is in TW2. They can't design the game with prolonged periods of suspense in mind, because a fight has to start only very few minutes after the player enters a lair (or otherwise is led to expect a fight) if the timers are so short.
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I like idea of this new system like eliharel said and I don't get it why people complain about that metabolism thing even now there are people who can slow down their heart rate so why not witcher- mutant can't hold his blood pressure -hold the elixir that won't spread through the body right away but after some time effect should weaken e.q 1-4min-100% 4-8min-75% 8-10min-50% after that is gone because elixir dissolved within 10 minutes and he can't drink another one because of toxicity . There is also nice potential to level up this ability(lv1=5min, lv2=10min debuffs-5% etc.) or even unlock it first so people won't complain and still have a choice. I'm sorry that my English is bad, I'm still learning
I get what you're saying, then. Yes, in that case you'd have to either risk drinking the potions (which could add to the tension, to find something positive) or try to fight without them. Still, I believe that's kind of an extreme situation, and I don't know in how many we'll actually find ourselves in the game.
Maybe I'll get over it, eventually... I hope.
Of course I do. Inserting some very hard to believe elements or mechanics and justifying their presence through explanations such as "he's a mutant" or "it's a fantasy game with elves and sorceresses" or "space magic" is only an indication of the lack of care, or talent, of a developer. Both qualities that CDPR possesses in ample measure, which is why I expect better explanations from them for me to really immerse in their world.