The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[ReptilePZ]

I get what you're saying, then. Yes, in that case you'd have to either risk drinking the potions (which could add to the tension, to find something positive) or try to fight without them. Still, I believe that's kind of an extreme situation, and I don't know in how many we'll actually find ourselves in the game.

The hope is that the new way they're handling monster hunting will present us with enough similar situations to justify the way potions work. Which is what I'v been getting at this whole time, the potion system seems to be designed in a very deliberate way that suggests this.

 

[Zhyphix]

The hope is that the new way they're handling monster hunting will present us with enough similar situations to justify the way potions work. Which is what I'v been getting at this whole time, the potion system seems to be designed in a very deliberate way that suggests this.

Well, yeah, but not exactly situations like with the Draug, I think. You should be able to find thirty seconds of time to drink a potion before entering a monster's hunting ground now, instead of getting thrown into it immediately after a cutscene or a dialogue.

Not that we know much, though, apart from the Leshen, the Fiend and that Ice Giant fights. All of which showed more than enough time to prepare in advance.

 

[Dprelate]

@gregski; now that threads are merged, would you please add a poll ? I mean let's just settle it down once and for all. I'm sure CDPR staffs are watching this forum closely. I'd suggest these three options for simplicity but you may alter them as you see fit.

1- Drink potions from quick slots whenever you want at your own risk. (TW1 style)
2- Drink via meditation before combat with medium time duration for potions. (double that of TW2 for example)
3- Drink first & activate later. (it'll take a while before full effect)

 

[Pajkes]

@gregski; now that threads are merged, would you please add a poll ? I mean let's just settle it down once and for all. I'm sure CDPR staffs are watching this forum closely. I'd suggest these three options for simplicity but you may alter them as you see fit.

1- Drink potions from quick slots whenever you want at your own risk. (TW1 style)
2- Drink via meditation before combat with medium time duration for potions. (double that of TW2 for example)
3- Drink first & activate later. (it'll take a while before full effect)

Yeah good idea but I also think that we could mix all of those and make really neat,rewarding and usefull system.I'm kinda lazy so I will just repeat myself from another thread:

I propose that Geralt shouldn't be able to make potions in the middle of combat...lol no that would be really silly and dumbed down IMO.Of course that you will have to meditate in order to make them,but what I propose is to be able to consume them during fight like you could in Witcher 1 and you could if I remember correctly to quick access them based on the number of slots and holders you had on your jacket-armor which could introduce more crafting options for making your armor more suitable for fights by increasing amount of holders you could have for potions from let's say 3 to 5.So for example you could only use potions in the the fight only and only if your armor has upgrades (in this case some potions holders or satchels) and it would be max. 5 for example and also once you use the potion and you would have quick access either icon or shortuct or both you won't be able to add new one from inventory which would make sense cause you are in the middle of fight and also would force you to make sure that potions you have are the right ones which again you would do based on your observation of surroundings,interviewing other people about threats you are about to face etc. And only those with best crafting will have 5 potions on their disposal and also you can keep whole belly brain thingy as perk for those who invest lot of time and points into alchemy.

Those are just my ideas though....and I also think that in that poll there should be 4thoption: Combine them all in meaningfull and fun way and 5th: I don't care cause I'm sure CD Projekt will nail it anyway

 

[ReptilePZ]

Well, yeah, but not exactly situations like with the Draug, I think. You should be able to find thirty seconds of time to drink a potion before entering a monster's hunting ground now, instead of getting thrown into it immediately after a cutscene or a dialogue.

Well, when I said similar, I meant in a way that you know what you'll be up against and you can prepare, it just might take some time before you reach your foe (tho even in the Draug fight from TW2, if we had this system, you could meditate before entering the mist and activate the potions only once you reach the Draug).

Not that we know much, though, apart from the Leshen, the Fiend and that Ice Giant fights. All of which showed more than enough time to prepare in advance.

Yep.

 

[Dprelate]

@Pajkes; I understand but a poll with more options would not show the public interest effectively. I think everyone is agreed on potion brewing out of combat. so lets focus on potion consumption for now. judging from your post, you would vote for the first option in case of drinking potions right ?

 

[ZaZdZa]

I somewhat agree with all of you.

My compromise is a "class system" for potions. All first tier Health, Vigor, and possibly "Adrenaline" re-gen buffs can be "activated". Here activation makes sense. This is friendlier to players new to the series and still has the basic effect of previous games without the hassle. All other potions must be prepared due to their complex nature. So for instance, for the first ten or so levels you can get by with the standard buffs, but when you run into something extremely dangerous that can one hit you with those basic buffs, you need to prepare, with more complicated changes to metabolism.

This more or less ranks potions according to complexity or rarity of ingredients, imagine these in the potion description:
Basic: Three or less ingredients, can be activated due to Geralt's experience with these effects
Complex: Four or less ingredients, cannot be activated until Geralt has the required mutagen/skill
Chemist: Five or less ingredients cannot be activated due to complexity of compound.

Keep in mind Basic potions are still poisonous, so if you have to prepare for a fight you will have to pick which you want and which you have to do without.

 

[macpeteo]

So the Witcher has to meditate in order to make potions!!! That is silly and DUMB! That is why I said before that the character of the Witcher has been poorly conceived from the beginning (if that is true). I mean, like what happens, his meta physical body rises and it creates the potions (rhetorical question)???

He is a Witcher with magical and physical powers, yes, and if he needs to meditate to maintain those powers i.e rejuvenate, well, that's great, nothing wrong with that (like sleep or eating to rejuvenate your health in other games).

Potions on the other hand are just based on knowledge and ingredients found in the natural world along with the alchemy tools to create them, so NO meditation should be needed to create potions!! AND no meditation should be needed to drink them!

I like the idea of Armor with X number of potion slots, you could have all kinds of combinations of Armor that have X number of slots as opposed to some other stat increase and the player would need to make a choice as to witch Armor they want, more slots for potions but less stats in other areas or less slots but more stats in other areas - all players choice depending on how they want to play.

As far as using the potions, well, again, you drink a Red Bull now, the affect takes place NOW! How much Red Bull can you drink, well, that would depend on the toxicity of Red Bull (potions) and your ability to survive the toxicity, but it would be your choice and the kind of Stats that you selected as to how much toxicity you can handle.

And if drinking a potion in real time is somehow going to kill you because of a animation (of drinking I guess) than there is something wrong with the how battles are implemented, I mean, it should take what, maybe a second to drink a potion that's all ready to go sitting in one of your slots, on the other hand, I could see myself, getting away from the Monster/whatever for a second or two to be able to grab a potion, open the vile and drink it! And if you don't have that second, than probably you should not be in that battle to begin with, wait till you level up some more.

 

[jjavier]

lore--;mechanics++;

I hope CDProject writers work hard to justify this.
I can't remember any precedent for an ability such "active later" in the books. It doesn't sounds like some other skill/sign evolving out of the lore. It sounds like something brand new and worthy of justification.

That was about the lore.
Regarding game mechanics ...

Well, when I said similar, I meant in a way that you know what you'll be up against and you can prepare, it just might take some time before you reach your foe (tho even in the Draug fight from TW2, if we had this system, you could meditate before entering the mist and activate the potions only once you reach the Draug).

I'd would love to have this feature right there for my alchemist builds. The endless battle was no place for a witcher whom haven't spend a few talents outside the alchemy tree.

Potion duration also bother me when between meditation and the battle there was a cut scene or a dialogue. This approach of "active later" could let me enjoy the cut scene or explore every option without bother other players who may think the time shouldn't be stopped just 'cos there are a cut scene.

 

[EliHarel]

So a mutant controlling his metabolism is ridiculous, but being able to carry only three potion-vials on his figure, while... he has a bag full with completely random different items, is believable? This bag of his is somehow allergic to potion vials, so he can only carry 3-5 on his belt. Or maybe we should get rid of the item-gathering aspect of RPGs altogether.

Lore bending is lore bending. Lesser, greater, middling, it makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary, the definition's blurred. If I am to choose between one lore bending and another, I'd rather not choose at all.

Just make it quick, CDPR.

 

[Gr3aves]

I'd like:

- Making potions in meditation, like it was in TW2
- Drinking potions should be doable without meditating, but it should go with a lenghty animation which leaves you very vulnerable if you'd do it in combat. So do your homework before. And no control over when it ''starts working'' or some shite.

But i think they won't change it anymore.

 

[Pajkes]

@Pajkes; I understand but a poll with more options would not show the public interest effectively. I think everyone is agreed on potion brewing out of combat. so lets focus on potion consumption for now. judging from your post, you would vote for the first option in case of drinking potions right ?

Well yeah I sort of agree about adding too many options for the poll might be misleading and I guess I would indeed go with the first option though as I said it would be nice if all the things could be mixed up into working and fun to use mechanic.Anyway we should definitely have poll,that one is for sure.

Just make it quick, CDPR.

Nothing made quckly is good and it take time to balance everything.That being said release date in second half of this year should be met cause otherwise we would all have like Cartman to freeze ourselves in order to speed up the time lol.

 

[Zhyphix]

So a mutant controlling his metabolism is ridiculous, but being able to carry only three potion-vials on his figure, while... he has a bag full with completely random different items, is believable? This bag of his is somehow allergic to potion vials, so he can only carry 3-5 on his belt. Or maybe we should get rid of the item-gathering aspect of RPGs altogether.

Lore bending is lore bending. Lesser, greater, middling, it makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary, the definition's blurred. If I am to choose between one lore bending and another, I'd rather not choose at all.

Just make it quick, CDPR.

Well, personally, I liked how the inventory was managed in the first game, where you could only carry one armor, two swords and two additional weapons, since that corresponded to Geralt's physical limit. The rest of the items was (technically) smaller stuff he could carry in his bag, so I'd be more than happy to return to this system. Let your horse be your warehouse and only make Geralt carry a limited amount of stuff. Furthermore, he couldn't be able to access the potions in his bag since he'd need to search through all his other items. Better?

(And lesser lore bending is better than greater, you know...)

So the Witcher has to meditate in order to make potions!!! That is silly and DUMB! That is why I said before that the character of the Witcher has been poorly conceived from the beginning (if that is true). I mean, like what happens, his meta physical body rises and it creates the potions (rhetorical question)???

He is a Witcher with magical and physical powers, yes, and if he needs to meditate to maintain those powers i.e rejuvenate, well, that's great, nothing wrong with that (like sleep or eating to rejuvenate your health in other games).

Potions on the other hand are just based on knowledge and ingredients found in the natural world along with the alchemy tools to create them, so NO meditation should be needed to create potions!! AND no meditation should be needed to drink them!

I like the idea of Armor with X number of potion slots, you could have all kinds of combinations of Armor that have X number of slots as opposed to some other stat increase and the player would need to make a choice as to witch Armor they want, more slots for potions but less stats in other areas or less slots but more stats in other areas - all players choice depending on how they want to play.

As far as using the potions, well, again, you drink a Red Bull now, the affect takes place NOW! How much Red Bull can you drink, well, that would depend on the toxicity of Red Bull (potions) and your ability to survive the toxicity, but it would be your choice and the kind of Stats that you selected as to how much toxicity you can handle.

And if drinking a potion in real time is somehow going to kill you because of a animation (of drinking I guess) than there is something wrong with the how battles are implemented, I mean, it should take what, maybe a second to drink a potion that's all ready to go sitting in one of your slots, on the other hand, I could see myself, getting away from the Monster/whatever for a second or two to be able to grab a potion, open the vile and drink it! And if you don't have that second, than probably you should not be in that battle to begin with, wait till you level up some more.

Um, what? How do you think a potion would be made, by eating two different flowers? The meditation aspect is to imply Geralt crushing the ingredients, mixing them, adding water or alcohol and similar stuff.

And maybe a Red Bull takes effect as soon as you drink it, but most oral drugs take several minutes to a couple of hours to be absorbed by the organism. And I would somehow associate a witcher's potions more with the latter. So it does make sense.

 

[EliHarel]

(And lesser lore bending is better than greater, you know...)

Nothing made quckly is good and it take time to balance everything.That being said release date in second half of this year should be met cause otherwise we would all have like Cartman to freeze ourselves in order to speed up the time lol.

Friends, I'm joking. I only copied the topic to Geralt's speech and Vesemir's answer in Killing Monsters. I was just making a jest, not an argument, let alone getting into a discussion about deontological constraints and thresholds.

Well, personally, I liked how the inventory was managed in the first game, where you could only carry one armor, two swords and two additional weapons, since that corresponded to Geralt's physical limit. The rest of the items was (technically) smaller stuff he could carry in his bag, so I'd be more than happy to return to this system. Let your horse be your warehouse and only make Geralt carry a limited amount of stuff. Furthermore, he couldn't be able to access the potions in his bag since he'd need to search through all his other items. Better?

Actually, I think that is better, yeah. I get the feeling that you're a bit pissed for some reason, as if you're being attacked. But cyber-tones can be misleading and I'm hopefully just misreading things, so I'll assume there aren't any harsh feelings here.

Like you, I also very much enjoyed Witcher 1's inventory system, where you couldn't be a walking warehouse. And your argument about not being able to find potions in your bag during a fight convinces me, really. I can see that serving as a reason as to why you can only access a limited amount of potions on your figure during action, i.e. the potions allocated to your belt/armor/whatever. This reasoning keeps CDPR's new mechanic but dresses it in a much more elegant suit, so it seems better. Any approach that enhances realism and doesn't (overly) subtract from gameplay is good in my books.

Also, the idea that Roach can carry most of your stuff is good. It leaves Geralt light on his feet, rather than encumbered from his bag, it can maybe slow Roach down throughout the game, the more you stack on him, and it also has potential for some specific cool missions where you're somehow separated from Roach, without warning, and now need to survive (for a short while) without your main inventory.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Like you, I also very much enjoyed Witcher 1's inventory system, where you couldn't be a walking warehouse. And your argument about not being able to find potions in your bag during a fight convinces me, really. I can see that serving as a reason as to why you can only access a limited amount of potions on your figure during action, i.e. the potions allocated to your belt/armor/whatever. This reasoning keeps CDPR's new mechanic but dresses it in a much more elegant suit, so it seems better. Any approach that enhances realism and doesn't (overly) subtract from gameplay is good in my books.

It does not keep the mechanic the same. Yes, you would not be able to replace potions *during* a fight, but if you're in the middle of exploring a creature's lair and you suddenly realise it's not what you expected it to be, it would be easy enough to just swap potions around without losing any. If you're forced to drink them prior to entering (like the mechanic is currently planned by the devs), the only way to replace a certain potion would be to meditate, use up the potions already in your system and drink new ones, thus being punished for misinterpreting information.

Another thing, this way you're allowed to selectively drink potions. It gives you more room for error (e.g. you discover the creature you're after is different than what you expected and less dangerous, so you only consume a Swallow potion rather than Swallow + more specialised potions), which lessens the idea of being rewarded for proper preparation further. So, while you might be convinced, I am not.

 

[EliHarel]

It does not keep the mechanic the same. Yes, you would not be able to replace potions *during* a fight, but if you're in the middle of exploring a creature's lair and you suddenly realise it's not what you expected it to be, it would be easy enough to just swap potions around without losing any. If you're forced to drink them prior to entering (like the mechanic is currently planned by the devs), the only way to replace a certain potion would be to meditate, use up the potions already in your system and drink new ones, thus being punished for misinterpreting information.

Ahhh. You're saying that if we continue down the strict realism path, then supposedly there's nothing preventing Geralt from preparing a lot of potions beforehand (meditation), then in the middle of traveling, during a quiet moment, he could just easily swap what he has on his belt with what he has in his bag.
Point.

Another thing, this way you're allowed to selectively drink potions. It gives you more room for error (e.g. you discover the creature you're after is different than what you expected and less dangerous, so you only consume a Swallow potion rather than Swallow + more specialised potions), which lessens the idea of being rewarded for proper preparation further. So, while you might be convinced, I am not.

Point 2.
I think what you're proving here Reptile (whether intentionally or not) is that insisting on a path of as-pure-as-possible mundane-realism inevitably results in, first, an indefinite discussion of nitpicking one detail after the other, and secondly, gameplay that isn't as good as the gameplay that could be achieved with a bit of magic-aid, when what we have in mind is a next-gen game of open-world exploration.

Right. I'm back in the camp of the controlled metabolism. :victory:

 

[ReptilePZ]

In the end, the developers have had 12 years to work on the mechanic. If there was any other way to achieve the same result using more appropriate means, they probably would have come up with it.

 

[Zhyphix]

Friends, I'm joking. I only copied the topic to Geralt's speech and Vesemir's answer in Killing Monsters. I was just making a jest, not an argument, let alone getting into a discussion about deontological constraints and thresholds.


Actually, I think that is better, yeah. I get the feeling that you're a bit pissed for some reason, as if you're being attacked. But cyber-tones can be misleading and I'm hopefully just misreading things, so I'll assume there aren't any harsh feelings here.

Like you, I also very much enjoyed Witcher 1's inventory system, where you couldn't be a walking warehouse. And your argument about not being able to find potions in your bag during a fight convinces me, really. I can see that serving as a reason as to why you can only access a limited amount of potions on your figure during action, i.e. the potions allocated to your belt/armor/whatever. This reasoning keeps CDPR's new mechanic but dresses it in a much more elegant suit, so it seems better. Any approach that enhances realism and doesn't (overly) subtract from gameplay is good in my books.

Also, the idea that Roach can carry most of your stuff is good. It leaves Geralt light on his feet, rather than encumbered from his bag, it can maybe slow Roach down throughout the game, the more you stack on him, and it also has potential for some specific cool missions where you're somehow separated from Roach, without warning, and now need to survive (for a short while) without your main inventory.

Oh I'm not, not at all. Well, I am a bit pissed at the mechanic, but definitely not because of any of you guys. I'm not feeling attacked in the slightest as well. And I completely agree about that last paragraph too.

Also, I did understand the joke, I was just pointing out.

It does not keep the mechanic the same. Yes, you would not be able to replace potions *during* a fight, but if you're in the middle of exploring a creature's lair and you suddenly realise it's not what you expected it to be, it would be easy enough to just swap potions around without losing any. If you're forced to drink them prior to entering (like the mechanic is currently planned by the devs), the only way to replace a certain potion would be to meditate, use up the potions already in your system and drink new ones, thus being punished for misinterpreting information.

Another thing, this way you're allowed to selectively drink potions. It gives you more room for error (e.g. you discover the creature you're after is different than what you expected and less dangerous, so you only consume a Swallow potion rather than Swallow + more specialised potions), which lessens the idea of being rewarded for proper preparation further. So, while you might be convinced, I am not.

Well, if you just need to sit down to be meditating like in The Witcher 2 (and not to be in a safe place or at a campfire), then it would be just the same to drink a new potion or to swap one from your bag. Otherwise, yes, it'd be less severe, but setting a cap to the potions carried like the two separated inventories in the first game (one section for items, the other for ingredients) could be something of a solution.

About meditation, I'm sure some early previews spoke of the return of campfires... I wonder if it's going to be like that in the game.

 

[ReptilePZ]

About meditation, I'm sure some early previews spoke of the return of campfires... I wonder if it's going to be like that in the game.

Nah, I'm pretty sure they're keeping it the same way it was in TW2.

 

[EmperorZorn]

Releasing the effect of potions whenever you want to seems like a poor design decision.
While it makes everything more user friendly and comfortable, it eliminates the point of planning ahead.

In terms of gameplay I'd solve it with a lore-friendly potion belt (the one across the chest we already saw in TW1).

Let's say you have a belt with three slots and you have to plan ahead which potions to put in it for the next fight.
Then, during battle you can quickly drink a potion from that belt via a using a hotkey.

When your belt is empty, that's it.
You can't magically pull more potions out of nowhere during battle.

If you don't need potions, you don't have to consume them.

It's a more elegant solution, and I came up with it in less than a minute - I know CDPR can do better.
Think creative, CDPR !