I think its very obvious MO is completely busted. the current meta deck is way too cheap in provision and the cards generate an insane amount of points, over 100 points in 5 cards is very possible. I'm not sure how the devs could oversee the glaring issues with this archetype, especially since they are introducing us to more and more people who are alledgedly pro players and have deep insight into the game and its mechanics.
I'm not a pro player (I've been to pro rank but that doesnt mean much) and just play the game for fun and I dont want to come off as a know-it-all but here's my suggestions to fixing current MO relict/koshchey.
Witch apprentice: power 3, provision 5. ability: at the end of your turn, boost self by 2. sabbath: cancel the ability.
seeing how this card has no trouble at all going to 14 or even higher while reaching sabbath is absolutely no problem given the explosive points of this deck, personally I would change her to an opener and sabbath enabler, which in return will cap her power at something like 11 or 13 probably, which is still extremely powerful for a 5p. it would also generate a new layer of strategy about when to reach sabbath and when not to. I recognize this card would be veery strong in unitless decks á la kelltulis, but it starting at 5 power makes it less unanswerable than it currently is and therefore isnt as probematic, imo. I could easily see this as a 6p card but then this archetype becomes too top heavy in provisions.
Mamunna: power 4, provision 10. ability: zeal, order: banish a bronze unit from your graveyard, then summon a copy of it from your deck to this row. sabbath: play the copy instead.
with this ability mamunna into griffin will still play for 13 (like yghern for example) with little setup and also thin a card and not go too tall. even with kiki worker or conqueror she would play as 11 with thinning, which isnt great but its not exactly a brick either. her true power imo comes from tutoring self-eafter, which is the most OP bronze card MO has atm, imo. people have suggested making this a 12p and similar nerfs but again, I think an archetype cannot consist of just 6p bronzes and 12+p golds, therefore I suggest this nerf, which keeps it rougly at 10 provision strength.
Bloody Mistress/Gernichora: Power 7, Provision 13. ability: unchanged.
This card is way too strong to be a 10 provision card. with sabbath it deploys as 9 points with 3 bodies (triggering thrives up to 7), all of which are engines. the fruits are easy to remove but it's almost impossible to deal with all 3 engines at the same time (remember what made cards like waters of brokkilon so strong?). I dont think I even have to comment about the caranthir, idarran combo issue.
She who knows: power 10, provision 12. ability: unchanged.
the card sees some play but I think we can agree currently it's a little underwhelming due to how easily it is interrupted (locking it or just damaging it to reduce its resilience value). personally I would make it 12 provision.
Idarran: power 6, provision 8. ability: the first time you spawn a bronze unit on your side of the board, spawn a 1-power copy of it on this row, and give it doomed.
I know Idarran is not a MO card and nerfing neutrals because of one deck most of the time isnt the right way to do it. but this card is and has only ever been truly problematic in monsters, imo. yesterday I tried to put him in an elf swarm list with vanadain, scenario, eleyas etc. and he worked pretty neatly, especially good with elven neophyte. obviously it also works well with larvae and most other swarm lists (rip devotion firesworn). but this card shouldnt be able to copy the most powerful gold cards, not for 8 provision. there is a reason renew costs 12 and can only target 9 provision and below. so I think this change would not destroy the card but make it memey and fun, the way it probably should be.
caranthir: dear caranthir, what can I even say... I know a lot of people love this card but personally I think it's time this card gets a complete rework. copying your win conditions is bound to be a very problematic thing time and time again, and this card appearently only gets stronger with the powercreep of the expansions. if caranthir was changed I could see gernichora being 11 provision I guess.
I'd suggest making him similar to bride of the sea (replaying MO specials in combination with frost, possibly second naglfar to help the shit consistency in devo MO), but thats just me.
self eater: I think this card is borderline broken but it lives and dies with the strength of other relict cards, and it is restrictive enough for me to be okay with it for now.
I think with these changes MO would still be very good but way less obnoxious to play against. what do you guys think? do you agree or disagree? I wanted to make the discussion a bit more constructive, since it really wasnt going anywhere in the other threads.
cheers
I'm not a pro player (I've been to pro rank but that doesnt mean much) and just play the game for fun and I dont want to come off as a know-it-all but here's my suggestions to fixing current MO relict/koshchey.
Witch apprentice: power 3, provision 5. ability: at the end of your turn, boost self by 2. sabbath: cancel the ability.
seeing how this card has no trouble at all going to 14 or even higher while reaching sabbath is absolutely no problem given the explosive points of this deck, personally I would change her to an opener and sabbath enabler, which in return will cap her power at something like 11 or 13 probably, which is still extremely powerful for a 5p. it would also generate a new layer of strategy about when to reach sabbath and when not to. I recognize this card would be veery strong in unitless decks á la kelltulis, but it starting at 5 power makes it less unanswerable than it currently is and therefore isnt as probematic, imo. I could easily see this as a 6p card but then this archetype becomes too top heavy in provisions.
Mamunna: power 4, provision 10. ability: zeal, order: banish a bronze unit from your graveyard, then summon a copy of it from your deck to this row. sabbath: play the copy instead.
with this ability mamunna into griffin will still play for 13 (like yghern for example) with little setup and also thin a card and not go too tall. even with kiki worker or conqueror she would play as 11 with thinning, which isnt great but its not exactly a brick either. her true power imo comes from tutoring self-eafter, which is the most OP bronze card MO has atm, imo. people have suggested making this a 12p and similar nerfs but again, I think an archetype cannot consist of just 6p bronzes and 12+p golds, therefore I suggest this nerf, which keeps it rougly at 10 provision strength.
Bloody Mistress/Gernichora: Power 7, Provision 13. ability: unchanged.
This card is way too strong to be a 10 provision card. with sabbath it deploys as 9 points with 3 bodies (triggering thrives up to 7), all of which are engines. the fruits are easy to remove but it's almost impossible to deal with all 3 engines at the same time (remember what made cards like waters of brokkilon so strong?). I dont think I even have to comment about the caranthir, idarran combo issue.
She who knows: power 10, provision 12. ability: unchanged.
the card sees some play but I think we can agree currently it's a little underwhelming due to how easily it is interrupted (locking it or just damaging it to reduce its resilience value). personally I would make it 12 provision.
Idarran: power 6, provision 8. ability: the first time you spawn a bronze unit on your side of the board, spawn a 1-power copy of it on this row, and give it doomed.
I know Idarran is not a MO card and nerfing neutrals because of one deck most of the time isnt the right way to do it. but this card is and has only ever been truly problematic in monsters, imo. yesterday I tried to put him in an elf swarm list with vanadain, scenario, eleyas etc. and he worked pretty neatly, especially good with elven neophyte. obviously it also works well with larvae and most other swarm lists (rip devotion firesworn). but this card shouldnt be able to copy the most powerful gold cards, not for 8 provision. there is a reason renew costs 12 and can only target 9 provision and below. so I think this change would not destroy the card but make it memey and fun, the way it probably should be.
caranthir: dear caranthir, what can I even say... I know a lot of people love this card but personally I think it's time this card gets a complete rework. copying your win conditions is bound to be a very problematic thing time and time again, and this card appearently only gets stronger with the powercreep of the expansions. if caranthir was changed I could see gernichora being 11 provision I guess.
I'd suggest making him similar to bride of the sea (replaying MO specials in combination with frost, possibly second naglfar to help the shit consistency in devo MO), but thats just me.
self eater: I think this card is borderline broken but it lives and dies with the strength of other relict cards, and it is restrictive enough for me to be okay with it for now.
I think with these changes MO would still be very good but way less obnoxious to play against. what do you guys think? do you agree or disagree? I wanted to make the discussion a bit more constructive, since it really wasnt going anywhere in the other threads.
cheers