Whilst this game has set the bar XP is far too easy....

[Rocquito]

One little thing to point out: personally, I don't want my progression to be slower. Just don't want to absurdly outlevel my enemies either.

The problem with slowering XP is that you also make it slower to unlock new skills, new abilities, etc.
The abilities tree is pretty good and SEEMS to be designed to keep some balance (even if you unlock 30 skills, you can only activate 12 at one). And I would like to finish the game having unlocked most skills, even the ones that didn't look too interesting at the beginning. Honestly, don't want to finish the game with every quest done and have to kill packs of wolves for days in order to try the very last abilities.

What I would suggest is:
- Stats don't automatically raise with levels. It's enough with the equipments.
- Better balance of equipment with levels, as I mentioned a couple of posts above (it's crazy at the moment).
- A skill tree more balanced (more slots for different abilities, but at the same time a lv. 5 ability takes 5 slots). There's a thread here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/47825-Abilities-Thread

 

[BarikMorloc]

One little thing to point out: personally, I don't want my progression to be slower. Just don't want to absurdly outlevel my enemies either.

The problem with slowering XP is that you also make it slower to unlock new skills, new abilities, etc....

What I would suggest is:
- Stats don't automatically raise with levels. It's enough with the equipments.
- A skill tree more balanced...

There are at least 22 places of power in the game that I have found so slowing XP wouldn't be too much of an issue because if you want to explore everything with a challenge you will find enough places of power to make up for the lost levels.

Also for a better balanced game I would reccomend:
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/139/? (This one actually removes stats gains from levels and is my fav so far)
or
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/167/?
or
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/175/?

For my next playthrough I plan on using a slower exp mod with a balance mod hopefully this will make the game much more challenging as you won't be overleveled and you will have a more balanced system that provides more challenge.

 

[Black_Iris]

What I would suggest is:
- Stats don't automatically raise with levels. It's enough with the equipments.
- A skill tree more balanced (more slots for different abilities, but at the same time a lv. 5 ability takes 5 slots). There's a thread here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/47825-Abilities-Thread

Thanks for the suggestion, I already incorporated the no bonuses on levelups change in my mod.
As for the tree, I already wanted to do something like that from beginning, but it requires a restart to work (without a restart it doesn't work at all). Albeit I already have two changes that, sadly, requires a restart to work so at this point I can do these things anyway. The only thing that blocks me is that for those that don't restart the balance will be off if I balance the mod along a change of the trees. The solution would be to make two separate versions but it's an hassle.

 

[Darkcloud.282]

There is no need at all for level scaling to address this massive issue of out-levelling everything in the game early on. Main quests give insane amounts of exp and so do most contracts. Why did they do it this way is the real question. Do they think modern gamers absolutely have to level super fast to be satisfied?

Who did they make the game for? Answer that question and you will get to the root of this problem. This game of all games should be made for people who love RPG's not people who tolerate them and want to skip most quests and just get to the end.

Drop the ridiculous amounts of exp for main quests and contracts and this problem will be gone. Soooooooooo many threads about it on here, zero reaction from CDPR. Disappointing.

I really hate the "there is something I don't like about the game it must be made for the DAMN CASULS!" thing because it quite often is just not true. The games that give you exceptionaly high XP for quests, especially main quests are games like Fallout 1 and 2, Baldurs Gate 1 and especially 2, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment and so on.

 

[AngelicBlasphemer]

I really hate the "there is something I don't like about the game it must be made for the DAMN CASULS!" thing because it quite often is just not true. The games that give you exceptionaly high XP for quests, especially main quests are games like Fallout 1 and 2, Baldurs Gate 1 and especially 2, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment and so on.

The games you mentioned are classic CRPG's i.e. nothing at all like Witcher 3. I never got that problem in any of those games (I played them all) because they are designed in a way it is not possible to do 'too many quests' and ruin your own game. Every single one of them assumes you will do every quest available.

I wasn't targetting casuals anyway, I was talking about people who don't want to do all the quests i.e. people with a passing interest in RPG's. This game should not pander to them it should be designed around people who love RPG's I've said it before if you don't want to do quests don't play a f***ing RPG.

 

[VahnXIII]

I'm hoping the New Game+ rumor becomes a reality. The "problem" with these types of games is the fact there is a lot of optional content that is fun, engaging and rewards XP. As a completionist, I understand the temptation to attempt to complete everything. This ultimately results in overleveling as so many have stated in previous posts. However, the New Game+ will give us the ability to pick and choose which side content to engage with and not overlevel the main plot. We can simply sweep through a second time and catch any missed content from the previous run.

 

[Rocquito]

Just to point out a different kind of player, I speak for myself when I say New Game + is something I will probably not touch and therefore it's a good thing for other players, but not a solution at all.

The Witcher 3 is at least 40-50 h long, and for a completionist like me who also loves the game, probably 100 hours. I will not re-start it again to repeat 70% of the game just to see some differences in quests or check a different ending. If they are ever going to fix the issues and imperfections of the game, I hope the idea is not doing it for New Game +.

Another question about the outlevelling quests: is it confirmed that the Expansions are thought for levels around 30? Are they f****g nuts? 90% of the players of the game will have BADLY outlevelled them by the time they are released. At least, the kind of players interested on purchasing expansions.

If you are level 30, you probably are in the middle of the story and have lots of quests to do in the game to think seriously about spending money on expansions. If you have already finished the game and have nothing else to do, and you are looking for the expansions, releasing them for 15 levels lower than you are sounds like an absurd joke.

 

[Darkcloud.282]

The games you mentioned are classic CRPG's i.e. nothing at all like Witcher 3. I never got that problem in any of those games (I played them all) because they are designed in a way it is not possible to do 'too many quests' and ruin your own game. Every single one of them assumes you will do every quest available.

I wasn't targetting casuals anyway, I was talking about people who don't want to do all the quests i.e. people with a passing interest in RPG's. This game should not pander to them it should be designed around people who love RPG's I've said it before if you don't want to do quests don't play a f***ing RPG.

It is very much possible to make those games quests to easy. In Fallout 1 and 2 levels don't meant that much after you get a few to get a healty HP pool but there are some key perks at certain levels that make a hell of a difference and trivialize the game and you won't reach those levels without doing side content.

With Icewind Dale it is true because it basically has no side quests. Planescape Torment doesn't focus on combat so no problem as well. Baldurs Gate 1 you can't really ruin the main quest through the side quests because they don't reward you all that much but the other way arround is more than possible. Not going with a full party of 6 gives you to much XP to fast though. You can reach 2/3 of the levels in the first two hours easily by going solo and doing the basilisks and Ankheg areas.

Baldurs Gate 2 is designed in a way that you can finish the main quest with doing the side quests neccessary to get enough Gold to continue the main quest and the side quests and main quests will get extremely easy after doing some of the side quests. Its much more a problem than in Witcher 3 actually, especially if you have Throne of Bhaal installed and get high level abilities. They turn the super challenging dragon into a he drops dead before the fight even starts battle.

 

[Black_Iris]

It is very much possible to make those games quests to easy. In Fallout 1 and 2 levels don't meant that much after you get a few to get a healty HP pool but there are some key perks at certain levels that make a hell of a difference and trivialize the game and you won't reach those levels without doing side content.

With Icewind Dale it is true because it basically has no side quests. Planescape Torment doesn't focus on combat so no problem as well. Baldurs Gate 1 you can't really ruin the main quest through the side quests because they don't reward you all that much but the other way arround is more than possible. Not going with a full party of 6 gives you to much XP to fast though. You can reach 2/3 of the levels in the first two hours easily by going solo and doing the basilisks and Ankheg areas.

Baldurs Gate 2 is designed in a way that you can finish the main quest with doing the side quests neccessary to get enough Gold to continue the main quest and the side quests and main quests will get extremely easy after doing some of the side quests. Its much more a problem than in Witcher 3 actually, especially if you have Throne of Bhaal installed and get high level abilities. They turn the super challenging dragon into a he drops dead before the fight even starts battle.

All the cases you mention happen ONLY when you know the game well so you can exploit its dynamics. In witcher 3 happens in a FIRST game. There's a LOT of difference in the two things. In the former case you can certainly make the game easier (in various ways) but you must KNOW how to do it (if you play Baldur's Gate with 3 people in the party on the first playthrough without knowing what to do - or even worse solo - you will not go past the open area), in the latter case (as in the Witcher 3) normal gameplay brings you there by itself, without doing anything particular, nor even involving some particular skill (either in research or gameplay dynamic).

The difference is like day and night. In one case it is actually an incentivation on knowing the system the fact that you can do those things, in the other there's nothing particular to do, nor you need to study something particular requiring skill to obtain an easy gameplay.

 

[Darkcloud.282]

All the cases you mention happen ONLY when you know the game well so you can exploit its dynamics. In witcher 3 happens in a FIRST game. There's a LOT of difference in the two things. In the former case you can certainly make the game easier (in various ways) but you must KNOW how to do it (if you play Baldur's Gate with 3 people in the party on the first playthrough without knowing what to do - or even worse solo - you will not go past the open area), in the latter case (as in the Witcher 3) normal gameplay brings you there by itself, without doing anything particular, nor even involving some particular skill (either in research or gameplay dynamic).

The difference is like day and night. In one case it is actually an incentivation on knowing the system the fact that you can do those things, in the other there's nothing particular to do, nor you need to study something particular requiring skill to obtain an easy gameplay.

That is only true for Baldurs Gate 1. In the case of the Fallout Games and especially Baldurs Gate 2 the side quests trivialize the main quest and in the case of Witcher 3 the main quests don't become that much easier the main difference here is if you have good enough equipment otherwise the only thing that makes a big difference on levels is weather they are in the red skull range or not. Its just that the game is to easy in general once you got decent equipments or skills. Just like in Witcher 2 and 1.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Any chance there will ever be mods for PS4?

I usually don't miss mods in games, but TW3 overleveling seems like one of those huge problems which could be fixed by mods with relative ease.

 

[IoriYagami76]

Now that I think about it, maybe dodge, roll and counter attacks should spend half of the stamina bar, that would take things to another level. Spamming dodge/roll and countering free is just too godly and over powered, makes everything too easy. On top of that it would add one more reason to use tawny owl potions more frequently.

 

[Guest 3823474]

Now that I think about it, maybe dodge, roll and counter attacks should spend half of the stamina bar, that would take things to another level. Spamming dodge/roll and countering free is just too godly and over powered, makes everything too easy. On top of that it would add one more reason to use tawny owl potions more frequently.

Roll at least does halt stamina regeneration, so it's not useful for buying time until Quen is ready again.
With limited roll ability, things would have become quite frustrating to me in several situations. Although anything can be adjusted to compensate. I'm not a friend of changing basic gameplay mechanics for certain difficulty levels, so I'd rather not have it at all, unless other things change, like the automatic weapon draw/sheathe.

 

[Ancient76]

So I just finished Witcher 3, it took me about 40 hours to complete. I tried doing all the side quest and locations but once I hit level 12 everything started becoming very easy. Once I was level 20 there was literally no challenge in the game and I decided to just finish the main story.

I played on Death March from the start and I was expecting a something painfully hard. At first the game was a moderate challenge...

So why is something that is labelled for "insane" players so easy?

1 - The game needs better balancing for skills, mutagens, spells and potions.
All my skills and mutagens were stacked for attack power. With the light Armour skill I got even more damage. I could take 2-3 hits from a boss and would be dead. This would have worked fine but than with a Quen at base level I was unstoppable. To top it off I had alot of potions that could buff my attack even higher. For mobs all I needed was whirlwind so eventually even the hardest thing in the game which were mobs of enemies was a joke as well.

2- The game rewarded to much EXP
If I were to have explored every place on the map and do every quest than there would hae been no challenge even left in the game. I barely did any quest once I left the tutorial map. The main story quest rewarded so much experience that very quickly out leveled other quest and contracts that I had, and doing them at even 2-3 levels higher than recommended made it boring because of how easy it was. It would be nice if quest/monsters scaled to your level to be honest at least than I could still enjoy the game.

3 - The combat AI is retarded
Even when I first started the game (when the game was at it's hardest), it still was not difficult. The reason for this is because the AI was too simple and predictable. You could literally heavy attack a lone human and they would just stand there blocking until they were dead. Or if a group was coming at you just run away and they would stop chasing you. There seemed to be no variety to the moves, the enemies didn't react of what you did. Why not have the blocking human dodge out of the way?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So what do you guys think? Is the game to easy for you? What else would help make this game more difficult that I haven't mentioned?


I suppose for now I will download and use the "Hardcore" mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/139/?
I will only do main quest once I have completed all quest/contract at my level or lower, and explore everything I can before doing any main quest.

My first play-though I looted every container in every house and had 30k gold at the end of the game. Only to find out that there is not much to do with gold or 99% of the stuff I saved. So for my second play-though I am not going to do any "loot-whoring" and will only loot from enemies. No robbing the poor this time around

The AI is like in other games, but the thing is that Geralt is too fast and moves like a ninja. You can play with AI how you want.

 

[Guest 3823474]

The AI is like in other games, but the thing is that Geralt is too fast and moves like a ninja. You can play with AI how you want.

In some cases, the AI is indeed weird, although the ones mantioned by the OP are not good ones.
A good example is the shooting gallery scenario when using the crossbow. I can just stand there trying headshots while a bunch of bandits just keeps their distance and raises their fists and stuff for as long as I keep using my crossbow ... even if they manage to circle me.

 

[IoriYagami76]

Roll at least does halt stamina regeneration, so it's not useful for buying time until Quen is ready again.
With limited roll ability, things would have become quite frustrating to me in several situations. Although anything can be adjusted to compensate. I'm not a friend of changing basic gameplay mechanics for certain difficulty levels, so I'd rather not have it at all, unless other things change, like the automatic weapon draw/sheathe.

Maybe they could add one more extreme difficulty Level with those features. You know you said something very interesting, the automatic draw is senseless, the game automatically chooses the right sword for you. A Witcher should know his swords right ?

 

[Rocquito]

Honestly, I agree with almost everything mentioned here, but wouldn't want the sword automatic sword draw to be removed. It would only make things less intuitive and more annoying, while not actually increasing difficulty a lot.

In general, I find most of the enemies interesting and well designed, and find cool differences between fighting wolves, fast-moving monsters, wraiths... for me it's ok, it's the absurd overpowering of Geralt which destroys the balance. Furthermore, asking for some stats and XP rebalancing at this point is a trial of luck, but expecting AI changes is probably too much (though I would really like the enemies to react better to Geralt using the horse to cut them in pieces one by one...).

However, if you want an example of a game with extremely retarded AI that is a very good challenge, look at the Dark Souls series: every enemy there is retarded and predictable. However, designers play with that by creating traps for the player, placing several enemies together, and giving them amazing strength and weapons so one mistake is costly for the players. In TW3 the overpowered one is Geralt whatever difficulty you are playing.

Also, agree with the dodge system being unbalanced. for fast monsters it "can be" fun because if they surround you you will have to choose carefully where to dodge and they chase you fast. However, human enemies don't chase you, so you go to them, hit them, jump back if they destroy your Quen shield and just wait to use Quen again.

At least Quen could reduce your damage intake, not absorb absolutely everything, from the slash of a wolf to a f****g nuclear bomb...

 

[MacCrusher]

Now that I think about it, maybe dodge, roll and counter attacks should spend half of the stamina bar, that would take things to another level. Spamming dodge/roll and countering free is just too godly and over powered, makes everything too easy. On top of that it would add one more reason to use tawny owl potions more frequently.

yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. However, there should always be a defensive counter available -- last resort, run like hell (Cat School - light armor, if only the mob would follow properly and not break aggro after ten yards). I'm betting the modding community sorts out some of these finer details sooner -- already some nice re-balancing combat mods at nexus. Roll is just silly overpowered, being a catch-all evasive tactic. I've begun to exploit the environment, running around trees, behind rocks, hills.. combat needs to be much more creative.

There are several problems that make combat too simplistic. Adding a stamina cost to many of these defensive tactics, but allowing you to spec talents for a more defensive/stamina-efficient build -- Griffon School; sacrifice attack rating; depending more on bleeds and poisons. That you're staggered for poor defensiveness is good game design and awesome as part of vanilla W3 (modded skyrim this way, as Skill-based game-play).

The game is brand spankin new. In time I'm betting the combat (modded pc) will be exceptional -- development may even port some of the best into console. Assuming REDkit is a thing. The combat is already exceptional, except that the dated use of "levels" and "Heroics by Number" (stat grind) breaks what combat should be..

To my thinking: no generic stat increase to general health/armor pool, unless speced as a talent, or equipped as gear; those talents/equipment as percentage base only. The higher your talents, the more talents equipped -- the higher the mobs talents, more talents equipped, better gear/resistances -- Skill Based Combat Scaling. Player's talent tree stays limited to the current four quadrants, so you're running builds that require some sacrifice.

Much easier to balance and extend replay of a game this way -- as skill based. It also allows you to gain levels as 'skill points' to be spent in talent tree. To increase-decrease difficulty development, or modder, would implement adding/subtracting talents, talent levels, resistances per mob. Of course mob would have their own unique talents and talent trees.

If someone doesn't mod this, I'll do it or pay/crowdfund someone to do it.

 

[Guest 3823474]

I didn't notice an issue with pursuit AI. Can' this just be explained with things like personality, agression level, situational context etc.?
If for example opponents are mostly trying to defend their camp and scare people away, that would explain a lack of pursuit.
Also, I experienced the opposite, too. I found a basilisk nest or such and one of the two winged creatures present that aggroed me followed me so far that I got really worried it might never leave me alone. Which was a problem since it was a few levels above me.

 

[IoriYagami76]

yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. However, there should always be a defensive counter available -- last resort, run like hell (Cat School - light armor, if only the mob would follow properly and not break aggro after ten yards). I'm betting the modding community sorts out some of these finer details sooner -- already some nice re-balancing combat mods at nexus. Roll is just silly overpowered, being a catch-all evasive tactic. I've begun to exploit the environment, running around trees, behind rocks, hills.. combat needs to be much more creative.

There are several problems that make combat too simplistic. Adding a stamina cost to many of these defensive tactics, but allowing you to spec talents for a more defensive/stamina-efficient build -- Griffon School; sacrifice attack rating; depending more on bleeds and poisons. That you're staggered for poor defensiveness is good game design and awesome as part of vanilla W3 (modded skyrim this way, as Skill-based game-play).

The game is brand spankin new. In time I'm betting the combat (modded pc) will be exceptional -- development may even port some of the best into console. Assuming REDkit is a thing. The combat is already exceptional, except that the dated use of "levels" and "Heroics by Number" (stat grind) breaks what combat should be..

To my thinking: no generic stat increase to general health/armor pool, unless speced as a talent, or equipped as gear; those talents/equipment as percentage base only. The higher your talents, the more talents equipped -- the higher the mobs talents, more talents equipped, better gear/resistances -- Skill Based Combat Scaling. Player's talent tree stays limited to the current four quadrants, so you're running builds that require some sacrifice.

Much easier to balance and extend replay of a game this way -- as skill based. It also allows you to gain levels as 'skill points' to be spent in talent tree. To increase-decrease difficulty development, or modder, would implement adding/subtracting talents, talent levels, resistances per mob. Of course mob would have their own unique talents and talent trees.

If someone doesn't mod this, I'll do it or pay/crowdfund someone to do it.

I shall bring you a better day ! haha !
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/171/?