Why Ciri Nova is in the game?

[Jeydra]

Gwentdb is the wrong place to look since anyone can post any meme deck and bias the results. Instead you should look at Gwentup's meta reports, in particular the 4250+ section.

Brouver has five more common golds: Ithlinne, Iorveth: Meditation, Aglais, Isengrim: Outlaw, and Schirru. Ciri: Nova is at 18.2% popularity.
Eredin has three more common golds: Caretaker, Caranthir and Ge'els. Ciri: Nova is at 48% popularity.
Emhyr only has 1.6% usage of Ciri: Nova.
Voorhis only has 5.1% usage of Ciri: Nova.
Jan Calveit has 5.9% usage of Ciri: Nova.
Foltest has three more common golds: John Natalis, Shani and Djikstra. Ciri: Nova has 61.8% popularity.
Crach has one more popular gold: Hym. Ciri Nova is second with 84.1% popularity.
Harald only has 2.8% usage of Ciri: Nova.
Eithne has six more common golds: Aglais, Isengrim: Outlaw, Iorveth: Meditation, Ithlinne, Schirru, and Muzzle. Ciri: Nova is at 16.7% popularity.

Clearly the card isn't ubiquitous. Some decks (and entire factions for that matter) cannot utilize her well. With other leaders (Eredin, Foltest, Crach especially) it's as though they need Ciri: Nova to be competitive.

Also I doubt she's the most common neutral card. Looking at the meta report, Summoning Circle is probably more common. No surprises there and that's completely a consequence of how important spies are.

 

[MU24bmw]

Originally I was OK with the Ciri Nova card. Then after just playing 6 games against completely different decks, I'd be OK if CDPR changed it up a bit. 5 of the decks had Ciri Nova. 4 used it as the round 3 finisher (most likely use). 1 used it in round 1 after i'd passed to win the round. 1 didn't have it. The reason I'd be OK with CDPR changing it up - boredom. Even though I won some of those games, I'm starting to get sick of the same last card play, which can be from any faction. It'd be different if only 1 faction could play this finisher, but with all of them, it get's boring really quickly.

 

[Karfuss]

Originally I was OK with the Ciri Nova card. Then after just playing 6 games against completely different decks, I'd be OK if CDPR changed it up a bit. 5 of the decks had Ciri Nova. 4 used it as the round 3 finisher (most likely use). 1 used it in round 1 after i'd passed to win the round. 1 didn't have it. The reason I'd be OK with CDPR changing it up - boredom. Even though I won some of those games, I'm starting to get sick of the same last card play, which can be from any faction. It'd be different if only 1 faction could play this finisher, but with all of them, it get's boring really quickly.

Which is a great point.

Many finishers rely on previous rounds or multiple cards interactions to be a finisher. Paulie into any combination of Dwarves, for example: Paulie > Barclay > Agitator+Skirmisher/Guard or just Skirmisher. Not only is it 'flashy' but it requires SOME awareness as to what's in your graveyard, what cards you've played, what's left in your deck, how best to mulligan etc. Not very intensive to do, but nevertheless, a combo.

Ciri: Nova is just a flat 26 value card that you either Royal Decree, Sarah, Franesca for OR you keep it in hand. When it doesn't require the basics to do, more often than not is stronger than any other finisher, and any deck can use it in conjunction with their Faction finisher to all but guarantee a bleed or Round 1... Well, then you start to question its balance, and how healthy it is to have in the game.

Or you can just play her yourself, I do, and all is nothing but bliss.

 

[Maerd]

Many finishers rely on previous rounds or multiple cards interactions to be a finisher. Paulie into any combination of Dwarves, for example: Paulie > Barclay > Agitator+Skirmisher/Guard or just Skirmisher. Not only is it 'flashy' but it requires SOME awareness as to what's in your graveyard, what cards you've played, what's left in your deck, how best to mulligan etc.

You mean player's IQ should be above 70? You know, to use Ciri: Nova players have to be able to know the difference between odd and even numbers... :eredinfacepalm:

 

[Karfuss]

You mean player's IQ should be above 70? You know, to use Ciri: Nova players have to be able to know the difference between odd and even numbers... :eredinfacepalm:

Which is very relevant to what happens in the game itself...

It's more: 'DUHDOI I wonnit first now for big glow circle mean I wonnit last. Yay!'

Can't think of any finisher that doesn't require some set up or interaction between cards. Except one. Boring.

 

[Draconifors]

Again, not liking the way this thread is going. It's awfully close to ridiculing other players, which is not allowed, so please drop that angle.

 

[iamthedave]

While she's theoretically interesting, I think she's too powerful for a neutral. Gwent has A LOT of options for deck thinning now, making CiriNov decks extremely reliable if they're built correctly, and while they might not have enormous redundancy built into their strategy, they can still run a ton of small synergistic plays. The idea that a 2 bronze limit 'cripples' the decks is absurd, as the Bear Nova deck demonstrates.

Consider: Shupe - who requires you to run a legitimately hobbled deck - can ONLY reach 25 power at his maximum. Now sure, he's a joke card, but there's a world of difference between an unreliable card who can just about reach 25 power, and Ciri Nova who gets 25 power for literally half the disadvantage, compared to Shupe.

I don't think she's toxic or necessarily bad for the game or anything, but I don't like neutral golds having such raw power. I want to be looking at my faction golds for finishers, not using my faction golds to support a neutral finisher. I wouldn't have any issue with her at all if she was faction-bound, same as I never had issue with Tibor or Hjalmar back in the day when they were popular despite them being a pain in the backside to play against.

 

[Maerd]

Consider: Shupe - who requires you to run a legitimately hobbled deck - can ONLY reach 25 power at his maximum. Now sure, he's a joke card, but there's a world of difference between an unreliable card who can just about reach 25 power, and Ciri Nova who gets 25 power for literally half the disadvantage, compared to Shupe.

Shupe decks based on ST are quite strong. I meet them regularly at the top ratings.

I never had issue with Tibor or Hjalmar back in the day

C:N is just twice better version of Tibor, no card disadvantage attached.


However the design not of just one card should be balanced. Current design allows huge point swings where you cannot guarantee advantage even if you lead by 30 points. Ithlinne: The Nuke easily outscores Ciri: Nova, I regularly score 30+ points with Ithlinne. I even designed my deck to be somewhat nuke resistant to have an edge over other similar decks... This plus addition of a counter to consume decks gave me an awesome winning deck all around.
To be fair I really like to play ST vs ST decks where you try to outmaneuver your opponent and force him/her to use cards to your advantage.

 

[Cocadaly]

I'm relatively new to this game so I didn't want to jump to any conclusions about Ciri Nova but I'm glad to see my gut isn't alone on this.

 

[iamthedave]

Shupe decks based on ST are quite strong. I meet them regularly at the top ratings.



C:N is just twice better version of Tibor, no card disadvantage attached.


However the design not of just one card should be balanced. Current design allows huge point swings where you cannot guarantee advantage even if you lead by 30 points. Ithlinne: The Nuke easily outscores Ciri: Nova, I regularly score 30+ points with Ithlinne. I even designed my deck to be somewhat nuke resistant to have an edge over other similar decks... This plus addition of a counter to consume decks gave me an awesome winning deck all around.
To be fair I really like to play ST vs ST decks where you try to outmaneuver your opponent and force him/her to use cards to your advantage.

This is true, but bringing up a card everyone knows is one of the most broken in the format doesn't exactly make a case. Ithlinne is probably one of the top 3 most powerful cards in Gwent at this time.

 

[Void_Singer]

What if if I tell you there are decks which can reliably pull out 23+ bronzes (looking at you broken nilfgaard emhyr combo, haha).

Nay, it`s a strong card but not OP.

:: whistles innocently :: ah the Emhyr Hand Job Deck, can consistently put out between 5 and 9 bronzes at 21-27ea in round 3... too bad it's extremely draw sensitive and can be ruined by a well timed countermeasure

I really do love Emhyr's ability... one of only 2 cards in the game that put a card in play back in your hand... He's basically a delayed decoy with a built in reset

Compare Ciri to that? "Don't make me laugh!" (or is it "Yield and save me some time!" =D )

 

[fo3nixz]

i use a nova deck, mostly she is just used to get rid of scorch & igni
afterall she is a juicy target

 

[giornodeigiudizi]

Let me tell you all. I've taken the good habit of doing the following thing when I play against Nova decks
1) You can forget about GG
2)Add the player to gently invite him to stop using a card that so badly ruins the game. Remember me, Easymode44, you know where to find me.

 

[Pruny]

nova dont ruin the game, she makes the deck weaker. i laugh when i meet eredin players with nova because my deck has more weather then they.

 

[giornodeigiudizi]

nova dont ruin the game, she makes the deck weaker. i laugh when i meet eredin players with nova because my deck has more weather then they.

BS man. Game reduced to looking if somebody has 16 cards and trying everything you possibly can to win round 1. No other card in the game has this effect.

 

[Void_Singer]

I'm with Pruny on this... once you know the difference between 3 and 2 chances to draw something, Ciri starts looking like a bad joke played on newbies. powerful, sure... consistent, uh... No.

 

[giornodeigiudizi]

I'm with Pruny on this... once you know the difference between 3 and 2 chances to draw something, Ciri starts looking like a bad joke played on newbies. powerful, sure... consistent, uh... No.

How is a card that gives you insta 25 points without any setup not consistent? It's consistent pretty much by definition: if you draw it there is exactly 0% chance that you won't use it because some other card hasn't shown up or you were unlucky.

I agree that it's better to draw 3 times than 2, but the disadvantage is completely outweighed. Not even close.

...and please, let's not make the mistake of thinking that "top rank players don't play it, cause it's easily counterable". Again, a card that completely conditions a game and ruins game for new players should be out of here, and, to get back on subject, by no means brought to 23 as to make it avoid certain counters.

 

[Sailears]

Yes I think it was - it's not exactly a unique design and the so called deck building "restriction" is hardly a restriction at all given how brainless it is to throw out points onto the board with all the overpowered bronze cards...

 

[Void_Singer]

How is a card that gives you insta 25 points without any setup not consistent? It's consistent pretty much by definition: if you draw it there is exactly 0% chance that you won't use it because some other card hasn't shown up or you were unlucky.

I agree that it's better to draw 3 times than 2, but the disadvantage is completely outweighed. Not even close.

...and please, let's not make the mistake of thinking that "top rank players don't play it, cause it's easily counterable". Again, a card that completely conditions a game and ruins game for new players should be out of here, and, to get back on subject, by no means brought to 23 as to make it avoid certain counters.

That's not why top players don't run it... the reason they don't is because it destroys the consistency of the rest of the deck. consistency wins more games on average than the single 25pt play.
just on initial draw the odds of getting 1+ of 3 copies of any bronze is 4/5, if there are only 2, the odds drop to 2/3. That may not seem like a big deal but it has drastic consequences over multiple games.

 

[NomanPeopled]

Another thing that should be pointed out is that as the card pool increases, consistency will become more important. And Ciri will have to compete with more golds for its slot.

Ciri was an issue for several decks that I played this season. It was never the issue though.