Don't know about you, but my first playthrough of TW1 after reading the books could be described as "search for any kind of Essi Daven Easter Egg, preferably her resting place".
:sad2:
Don't know about you, but my first playthrough of TW1 after reading the books could be described as "search for any kind of Essi Daven Easter Egg, preferably her resting place".
:sad2:
yea, if you create a game with such a great city as Wyzima, you need to think about detalis like that.
This is exaclty my point when it comes to criticizyng CDPR, in the best way possible of course. Non book readers have no ideia of how deep, complex and fantastic is this relatioship in fact not just as a romance but overall including the last wish, Ciri etc. Tbh there isn't much paralalel to course with that, you don't see such an amazing relatioship being developed like that every day or in every book/game so this is why when this is thrown to me in the game I felt like in the tip of the iceberg. While there's a lot in there I can't see it and even less understand it.
This is exaclty the nuance and the subtle things I was talking about in their relationship. This is so very well played that reflects real life with incredible accuracy, it's exaclty the thing that will make people angry and get into an arguing when really involves love and affection. A simple letter, a simple word like "dear friend" from the man she considers the most. That simple thing hurt Yen in a way that she needed to hide once more underneath her crust and react in her own way, if it wasn't someone she considers like that she would not waste time and energy on it and it's funny because it's not like that Geralt wanted to provoke her, he just wasn't sure of how to adress to her, where they were at that point. Such an human and daily basis problem when people are dealing with their personal relationships.
Draging that into the little war context you can say she's cold or selfish and that their relationship is chaotic and toxic, such a poor and dumb analysis I must say, but it can turn into a weapon in war times lol. While they are two characters being portrayed in a very and unique human way, people expect a fairy tale and that everthing works perfectly in a relationship, this is where they stand up and can be a fantastic experience. Things in real life works perfect? Of course not. And what about relationships? They need to be perfect? The same answer. But what matters the most is that even after going through all of that and spedind all that time separate they remain the same and keep loving each other, having this knoledge and chemistry that they can't find in no one else.
Truth were spoken once more, this is the main reason why their relationship looks especial somehow and how they fit to each other even in the middle of all they went through and are going through. You start to see how much they look like but at the same time complete each other, Geralt not being condescending with Yen sometimes and vice versa it doesn't mean they aren't meant to each other or they're a toxic couple, it means that they are trying to be a balance or protect each other and even after arguing or being separate all their love will remain the same. They understand each other in a very unique and special way that only people who went through what they have went knows, it's like both are shattered plates who completed each other with their broken pieces and Ciri is the glue that makes them even stronger and united.
Yes, she's basicaly saying that Ciri and Geralt are her whole world and they are all what matters to her. That makes me think again on how the game showed her to new comers, without the proper introduction of her past and some character develpment is so easy to forget or not even see that, for an example when Geralt goes to Velen fight Imlerith with Ciri while Triss reacts very worried showing affection (like a princess in a fary tale would act) Yen reacts calm and without a worry. "OMG look at that she's so cold", even I felt that way on my first playthrough tbh. That mean she's cold? Not at all, that means she trust Geralt like she trust herself, she is very selfconfident and independent, that's simply her character her whole life after childhood, and so she knows exactly how strong and the smart sorceress she is, just like she knows how strong and the smart wicther Geralt is. He's a killing machine and a father who would give his life for Ciri who is also a great warrior. She would be pissed with Geralt if he didn't helped Ciri and allowed her to fight them alone, which she knows Geralt would never do it. So she's actually releaved and happy becasue he went and protected her, besides it wasn't a supid idea at all. It was a single opportunity to get Imlerith isolated without the widl hunt rats. Good one Ciri, you learned with the best ones (Geralt and Vesemir).
Exactly, like I said once to you she's like a desperate mom driving a Ferrari and going 200km/h to save her daughter, while people is running in a bycicle and keeps trying to delay her. You really want that she stops all the time to wait people to catch up? Of course that's not gonna happen. You want she tells everybody what she's up to and risk loosing their help because they have bitchy argument against? Like Uma going through the wicthers ritual, for an example. They have a less danger alternative? Vesemir thought so, he tryed some other way but it worked? No. So Yen was right in making that choice and she was right not telling them what she was doing. They lost one day. Fortunatley that was another rare moment for the players to expercience more of her chilled and lovely side with Geralt.
True, like I said it's like Geralt finally got his old and beloved house back, but he can't open the door and get in (( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)) because he needs to deal with some burocracy right in front of it. In the courtin scene he like opens the door for a moment and taste a little of his old place.
Nice example, oh man you have no idea of how much I missed those small talks with her under normal circumstances. The whole game is just their rushing and getting even more stressed with things that is affecting their interacitons all the time while non book readers don't have the time to know her "normal" side better, just glimpses of this amazing character.
Yeah, thats was indeed of the unique moments when you can see the reason, why Yen is doing anything to find Ciri and you taste some of their relationshiop from the books. But, when it comes to develop that as I read here it just don't exsit, so if there is no Yen-Ciri there is no family, no Yen-Ciri-Geralt. Is all about Geralt and Ciri, everything she does and talks is with him, looks like her consideration for him it's incomparable with Yen's. What about the woman who went though all that to save her? The woman she called mom back in the days? This is just extremily unfair with her, it makes me sad when I think about it and I prefer to think that this was a mistake of the the devs becasue lack of time or something than purposely putted as Ciri doesn't care anymore about Yen.
As you mentioned, there is some times when it shows their relaltionship but they are becasue of the ocasion like Avallach's lab and the Lodge. The nedded to deal with those situations wanted or not to solve the main problem of the narrative, so is like was slightely forced to make them interact. Is different when Ciri awakes Geralt and ask for his help to go to Velen in middle of the night, secretely. Or when she asks by genuine free will for his help again to deal with those people in Novigrad and spend sometime with her friends. I really missed Yen there in one of those situations but especially the second one, could had been an incredible opportunity to show people how much Ciri is thankful for what Yen did and develop their relatioship showing how much she loves Yen. With the plus of portraying Yen in a relaxed situation with her familiy and the friends of her daughter. Imagine Yennefer of Vangerberg stealing horses lol
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That would have been interesting. Then add a little dialogue coming back at that supposed duel between Geralt and Istredd xD
There isn't an issue between two grown ups that can't be resolved with the game of GWENT.
:angry2:
After Aedd Gynvael. When Geralt was unable to speak outloud his love for Yennefer because he hasn't matured enough yet (sapkowskis own words) she makes a 2nd kestrel explaining how she is breaking up with Geralt aswell and she runs away from him.
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Most of the criticism lobbied against CDPR was just to make changes that showed some of the characters deeper effections towards geralt/ciri, because they hadn't shown it properly. I mean why is the Ciri/Yen stuff still not fixed despite the constant complains lobbied at them? I think they showed that Yennefer means a lot to Geralt in the game however most people played based of the Witcher 2, so Triss seemed to be his real lover, and people are like "who is this woman", you get the brief meetings with Yen and your still mostly like "so... who is she?" but then you meet Triss first, so if you don't know Yennefer, your bound to get with Triss. Im one of the rare occasions that choose Yen with no prior background knowledge on her
I don't think the games could of properly shown who Yennefer is to Geralt without prolonging the story to much, also people should just read the books and play previous games first. Then you have the entire background. People who have only played the Witcher 3 and then talk about a character with a complete lack of knowledge, frankly their opinion holds no weight. But when you know Yennefers character, CDPR did a great job portraying her in the game!Yup, Triss does act worried and she even tells Geralt off for going after Imlerith and the reason is simple. Yes she cares greatly for Geralt and Ciri but she doesn't know Geralt/Ciri the same as Yen does. She doesn't know or trust for certain that they would of came out alive. So she was worried when she found out. Yennefer on the other hand knows Geralt and Ciri much better. She knows full well that Geralt has gone with her and they will be fine, and when Geralt comes back she is simply like "Was ir your idea or?" and then she is like "why would i be mad?". She knows they will be fine and has complete trust and confidence in the two of them. It's actually a really clever idea by CDPR to show that, they do it again on the boat in Act 3 later on. When Triss is like "plan to swim? You'll get shot up" and Yen, as i said who knows Geralt perfectly just says "dont panic, he'll find a way" because she knows he will find a way, she trusts him completely. So i like how CDPR did that.
Pretty much exactly. Like you said earlier, people need to stop nip-picking over small details and trying to use them as arguments to say she is cold or bitchy. What matters is in the end, they both know each like they know themselves, there chemistry, love, trust and faith in each other is unrivaled and it truly is a great relationship, they overcome their problems and they become perfect. Pretty much anyway xD
That is a weird metaphor but it is actually so good. I usually use the Ciri was the bridge across a river. Geralt and Yen were both on either side looking at each other and then Ciri built the bridge that brought them together. But i like the broken plates and the glue ahah. It's pretty much true, they are both broken and they fix each other and Ciri makes sure they fix each other properly and she cements it. Good stuff!
Yup, this is shown at many points throughout the games. How Yennefer doesn't argue with Geralt about matters involving him doing something dangerous because although she wants him to be careful and keep safe, she knows full well he will be fine and he always finds a way to achieve his goals. Especially if his Ciri is in danger, she has nothing to worry about and she knows this.
That is another great metaphor, She is head first into finding Ciri and people want her to sit down and talk to people she doesn't like about her plans? Lets be honest, she doesnt have to tell anyone shit about how she is going to find her daughter, whats it matter to them? But yourself in her or Geralts shoes and think if your daughter was missing, would you sit down and be nice to everyone and explain how u plan on fidning her? Or would you come across as inpatient, in a hurry and rushing around in order to find her.
Yup all Vesemir did was delay the entire process of finding Ciri for an extra day with his stupid hemlock idea. But like you said, turns out to be a great decision from Vesemir, because we got to see geralt/Yen spend some time together and that is greatly appreciated to watch and witness.
That is one of the dirtiest things i have read and that LennyFace at the end just makes it perfect. Yes, in both terms you are right. Geralt finally gets his old, much loved house back and he is so happy to be back with her, but he hasn't got the key yet to open the door and then when he finally gets it he enters immediately ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Tastes his old home? Lmfao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The small talks are some of the best. It's so great to see the them just talking to each other completely open as the lovers they are. Most of the time it is business as usual Geralt and Yen, but when you seen them be themselves it is amazing to watch. Freya's Garden and The Last Wish quest are some of the best examples of this. There are other great examples in the games aswell (Kaer Morhen and Yens dream at the end).
Yeah i know. Its obvious that Ciri still cares deeply for Yennefer but they just didnt SHOW it properly. Doesn't say mother a single time? what is that about? Its a mistake on CDPRs part and i dont care what excuse they come up with. Also she changed her name to "Cirilla of Vengerberg" but they always seem to have forgotten about that aswell in the games... oh well. She still advises Geralt on his relationship with Yen, she still tells him she is happy they get back together, she still has a few brief mother/daughter moments but it could of been done so much better tbh.
Agreed. Yennefer/Geralt and Ciri going around Novigrad would of been much better for the family scene. It would show people who only played the games that BOTH of them mean the world to her and that she wants both go around and help her in Novigrad. Shame they didn't do this, i can understand why from a game point of view but in terms of lore it really is a shame. You could also argue Yen is busy freeing Rita and the lodge so that she can plan the defence of Ciri against the WIld Hunt instead, so only Geralt can go with her. But the Yen in the books would drop anything to help Ciri so it's not much of an excuse. Ciri loves Yen immensely and it is obvious that she does, but it would of been GREAT to show with more scenes like Avallachs Lab... ;(
I'm going to commit a bit of heresy and disagree here. Ciri brings them back together, but nothing is fixed. At Thanedd Yen still doesn't trust Geralt enough to share her thoughts and plans with him. When Geralt asks about Ciri's future, Yen's response is essentially "none of your business, now make love to me again." Geralt, meanwhile, is constantly hiding his thoughts from Yen, afraid that he will trigger another fight and ruin everything. In the aftermath of Thanedd, Geralt is perfectly willing to believe that Yen has betrayed him. As for Yen, she sees no point in working with or finding Geralt:
"He will achieve nothing. I know him. He’ll get caught up, lost in his own philosophizing, and wallow in self pity. He’ll vent his anger and hack at anyone and anything he comes across. Then, in expiation, he’ll do some grand, but pointless deed. In the end, he’ll be slain, stupidly and needlessly, most likely by a stab in the back.’
When they are reunited in Lady of the Lake, conditions between them are still the same. Geralt hides his thoughts and frustrations from Yen, and Yen refuses to explain to him what is happening with the Lodge. The only time when everything seems right between them is after Stygga when they think they are about to die. Their relationship only works in the immediate present- as soon as considerations of the past or future enter into it, cracks begin to form all over again. Their love is saved in the end by death and their transportation to a kind of afterlife where the present is the only thing that exists. In the real world not even Ciri is enough.
Well, the part with philosophizing and self-pittance is exactly what would have happened to Geralt had Regis and co. not entered the equation. Don't need to remind you how right she was about the other part.
For me that shows that she knows him better than anyone, not that she doesn't want to work with him or care about him.
We can't know for sure how their relationship will work in the peacetime, none of the books offer that information. TW2 flashback as well as the main game's and BaW epilogues doesn't indicate some impending apocalypse, though. There is nothing that shows he would have been happier with alternative LI.
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- After the Istredd thing in Shard of Ice
- her not looking for Geralt in the saga and during TW1/TW2 can be interpreted like that as well. Sure, there was also the "search for Ciri is more important" and "being imprisoned by Emhyr during TW1 and maybe early TW2" motives; but she also chose to avoid the conflict with him ("running away") rather than to seek it out.
I thought her future was just going to be "She will be raised and trained in aretuza" what much more is there to say?
It's not that she doesn't want, there is just no point. In the end it was geralt that rescued and saved them both, but at the time Geralt wasn't known for his mature ability, you know with his emotions and stuff. Like oooodrin said, she knows him better than anyone, she knows he will find a way to do something. Her complaining that he will probably die is just her moaning and complaining and rambling, people do that in real life aswell xD. She also did just tell Crach that the she does have feelings for Geralt lol.
Maybe so, but that's because Yen/Ciri need to see the lodge and if she just told Geralt "They want to marry her into kovir" Geralt would go into a rage and that just wouldn't help anything. The lodge would track them down, so Yen takes the initiate and goes to see the lodge with Ciri personally. Also she wanted Geralt to set up their new home in Rivia? I least i believe so, since that is where Geralt heads off to after he gets Dandelion from Toussaint.
Basically i disagree lol. Yes they don't completely open up and say everything on their mind, but frankly does anybody tell anybody everything that is on your mind? When Geralt first reunites with Yen at hirundum is it? They have a long, passionate talk (after initial arguing) and they both forgive each other for their mistakes, their short comings and their misunderstandings of the past, its all forgiven and they can move forward together with their new found daughter. Also Geralt did think how he would do anything for her now, would go anywhere and do anything if she asked him. Yes, he didn't tell yennefer he was looking for a mage that wants to find Ciri, he must of had a good reason not to.
I don't think Thanedd was a lack of trust, they both trusted each other by this point, or so i believe. Geralt managed to say I love you out loud to her and Yen also opened up and contradicted herself. She said she didn't believe in sincerity and now she is saying "my sincerity for yours" so thats good! I think Thanedd is just a show of how much they love each other, yes there was still a few problems under the surface i agree entirely on this point, but i don't believe it's from a lack of trust. Geralt and Yen publicly showcase their love to each other at Thanedd, with the kiss. Not something you would do if you wasn't sure about the person imo. Also the sex at the end, the never ending sex. I don't think there is any underlying mistrust here anymore personally, they are so into each other at this point (no pun intended lmao) and also Geralt was thinking about getting a new home with her at this point, so he obviously wanted to settle down with her.
Geralt was led to believe she had betrayed him because all the pieces added up AND it's what people had told him. You might say "But if he knew/trusted her 100% he would know she would never" But thats the point isn't it? Deep down he was still thinking romantically and sexually about her, when he was captured by Temeria he was thinking of Yen, when he was shagging Fringilla he was thinking of Yen. When he finds out she was innocent in it all, i think deep down he knew she was but learnign the truth for certain and that she was captured and imprisoned and forced to commit suicide after she does Vilgefortz demands. To much for him to handle. he obviously heads of and saves her. I think their relationship is actually pretty much perfect after Stygga, Yen doesn't tell him about the lodge's reason for his own safety. It's better for Geralt not to know, and well in the end it was wasn't it? Ciri and Yen evaded the lodge for a time. Also in the games, she doesn't tell Geralt everything again, but its not because she doesn't trust him or care about him, she even says he is one of the only people she cares about and their opinion on her. She just knows what is good to tell geralt and what isn't good.
Although im slightly biased :> and im rambling here. But in the end there relationship is never 100% perfect. But once Ciri get's involved in the picture its much, much better. Yes they might have trust issues at times but in the end what matters is this... "I knew you'd come for me"
Basically in my opinion she trusted him again after Thanedd, atleast i think so. Even if she didn't she did at stygga like you said, because she knew he would come for her. She also thought of Geralt when Vilgefortz was trying to scan for Ciri, that shows her deep love for him and even Vilgefortz was shocked by it. "I didn't know she had such feelings for him". Geralt/Yen is a great story about a relationship that was very strong in love but constantly not working and was suffering misfires and misunderstandings. It's good to see over the books the progression of their relationship, Thanedd feels like a new beginning for them. The past is the past, we can start anew. Despite the Yennefer being captured part, they are together all the time after this. Until you count the games i suppose with the Wild Hunt, but the games also have a similar story, Yennefer doesn't tell geralt why Emhyr wants to see him, then Geralt finds out. She knows what to tell Geralt and what not to tell Geralt, it's not a case of mistrust or manipulation. Also when you look at their retirement in Corvo Bianco, she tells him a considerable amount on the couch and in the house. How Geralt says "now i know if you have something to tell me, you'll tell me" and well she does with "i missed you Geralt, madly".
BTW im not arguing with you. I was just adding my thoughts on what you said, although you are rather clever on the subject, i just think the amount of love they show for each other and what they sacrifice for each other in the later books is really amazing. That is a combination of love and trust xD, she did trust that he would 100% rescue her, she just knew inside. That's a great amount of faith you have in somebody for that. She also like i have said, opened up extremely at Corvo Bianco tbh, she told him how she never wants him to change, loves his personality, finds him very handsome. She hasn't said that before.
I do disagree on this however, Ciri is the reason why they even meet each other again in the first place, Ciri is the reason why Geralt and Yen rescue each other from Stygga, Ciri is the reason Yen even has a daughter. Ciri is the reason Geralt and Yen want to live together.
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Like @ooodrin wrote, it just proves how good she knows him. Besides that, a little later she goes:
‘Instead of me laughing at Geralt, I could try his method.’
‘I do not understand.’
‘I could try to sacrifice myself. Sacrifice will pay off, yes, show good character… And it is in the shape of the grace of a goddess. She loves and appreciates those who sacrifice and suffer for a cause.’
Trying that method led to the 3 of them eventually being reunited aswell. So it worked out well!
Yeah, and and his sticking to that method led two of them to death...but that's another story
Yeah, and and his sticking to that method led two of them to death...but that's another story
Well it turned out well in the end didn't it?
nobody is dead I'm halfway through reading 'Baptism of Fire' and am still unable to agree that Ciri considers Yennefer as anything like a mother. I continue to read with an open mind and at least can understand the Geralt-Yen relationship better though. The game really doesn't give Yennefer much of a place in Ciri's life - the beautiful relationship is all between Ciri and Geralt. That reunion scene, where Geralt finds Ciri and thinks she is dead, is so well done. There is nothing equivalent for Yennefer though, which is a shame.
I don't blame CDPR for not giving more back-detail because there is room for a different interpretation of the books. I think you could argue that Y and G are both so individual they can't live without each other but can't live with each other either. Sapkowski certainly created a deep, convincing and mesmerising dynamic between them. I suspect he did this partly for storytelling reasons - we keep reading because we can't guess what will happen. I don't think they will have a peaceful retirement together - they are too complicated - but at least they will have an interesting one.
There are very few love stories as compelling as the one between Y and G. I think the greatest love story of all time is that of Heathcliff and Cathy - again a difficult and complex relationship. And this one isn't far behind.
I don't blame CDPR for not giving more back-detail because there is room for a different interpretation of the books. I think you could argue that Y and G are both so individual they can't live without each other but can't live with each other either. Sapkowski certainly created a deep, convincing and mesmerising dynamic between them. I suspect he did this partly for storytelling reasons - we keep reading because we can't guess what will happen. I don't think they will have a peaceful retirement together - they are too complicated - but at least they will have an interesting one.
There are very few love stories as compelling as the one between Y and G. I think the greatest love story of all time is that of Heathcliff and Cathy - again a difficult and complex relationship. And this one isn't far behind.
I don't think you will at any point. You seem to have an ingrained dislike towards Yennefer and you only seem to pick up on her bad points and mistakes.
It's offers brief glimpses in the games but you are correct, most of it is only Geralt and Ciri in the games, which as i have previously said, is a mistake on the part of CDPR, don't care what excuse they come up with!
I agree here, there love story truly is remarkable and amazing and it is one of the most captivating for sure. The development throughout the books and games is really well written between the two of them and i love seeing it progress throughout it!
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I have no reason to have an 'ingrained dislike' except for the impression she gave me - first via the game. If I'd read the books first just maybe I'd have thought she was nicer, I'm not sure, but too late for that now. However she is interesting which is better than 'nice' for both gamer and reader.
Well i played the games first and i loved her, read the books after, loved her even more and understood how she went through great pains and troubles that bore down on her mind and conscience and seeing Geralt and Ciri change her character and make her even as far as happy! How she will sacrifice herself if she has to, to save the 2 people she loves. She would never of done that in the past, but now she does, so i love her. But you can dislike her, people like different things xD