Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers) - The Revival

[carlos2033]

In the end we fans have to fill up those gaps and just assume things, but don't you think such a thread like this one here is predestinated for something like that?

That's one of the reasons I wanted it back.

Thread is nice and is good to have discussion but we also have a lot of disagreement cuz of story plotholes which could easily be explained with one conversation with Yennefer.

For endings yeah give rein to one's imagination, but i personally don`t like to fill story gap for important stuff in game, why just not explain them.

Then she spent 2 years in Emhyr prision, maybe interoggated and tortured maybe not, but it`s still prision even if she lived in best conditions in it she was imprisioned, she couldn`t search for Ciri or Geralt cuz she was in prision. Everything what happened with Geralt is Emhyr fault cuz she couldn`t contact Geralt earlier ( Sorry Yen but magic is gone for me, it`s Emhyr damn fault cuz she was in prision in that time and Geralt had time to move on. ). Emhyr wanted to rape Ciri and he killed her familly and destroyed her home and left her trauma for the rest of her life.

And then we have that random conversation on ship ( Which shouldn`t be there in the first place.) between Yennefer and Ciri where she say this Yennefer: "Actually, of all people, I believe you can trust him, perhaps you even should.", why, WTF why would she do that it`s OOC and i can`t think of any fanfiction who could help me understand that. Even if it is sarcasm or joke it`s just make no sense, you just don`t joke with something like that it`s just cruel.

Ok, to express myself better maybe i was using harsh worlds, just wanna say that in that scene book Yennefer wouldn`t behave like that, that is all.

 

[TreesAreCanon]

@carlos2033

I wouldn't call OOC. Actually it could be a working plotline, if it was explained. Right now it doesn't make much sense.

1) In the books Emhyr has redeemed himself. Yes he's a monster, but in the end the little bit of good in him took over
2) All he wants in The Witcher 3 is to give his throne to Ciri
3) Yennefer knows that and of all the people Ciri could be "manipulated" by (The Lodge, Radovid, Dijkstra and so on)
Emhyr and his intentions are really something you can trust

Remember Montecalvo and Kurwir plan? Emhyr all the way! If it has to be politics. Better than sucking dick in Kurwir.

In Vizima, my father and I spoke... for long. Argued, really, and parted. Then a messenger came, with a letter.
I didn't say anything at first because I wasn't sure, and then... I realized I had to stop fleeing.
Realized that if I wish to change anything, I cannot do so hunting monsters round forgotten villages.
I must do so from there. From Nilfgaard.

What needs to be explained more to actually make it work:

1) Yennefer and her time in Nilfgaard (prison) and Emhyr romance prior to meeting Geralt.

How? Why? When? Who? What? This is easy to do in one dialogue just like with Lethbro.

2) Yennefer's questionable part in the Empress ending. Why was she cut from the ending?

If you mean to suggest Yennefer had anything to do with this, then the answer is no.
She doesn't know about it. And I'd prefer she not get involved this time.

Why is CDPR giving us small hints of Yennefer's involvement in it during the game then?

a) Her relationship with Emhyr
b) Letters and other remarks
c) Yennefer has plans for me
d) You can trust Emhyr
e) Go see Emhyr please

And in the end Ciri says Yennefer had nothing to do with it and doesn't know about it? Lol.

3) All the relationships and character interactions between Yennefer, Ciri and Nilfgaard.

They need to be explored a lot more to actually make sense. Ciri/Emhyr, Yennefer/Emhyr, Yennefer/Ciri and so forth.
Either that, or cut the "Emhyr is a good guy" bullshit from Yennefer. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever right now.

The Empress ending feels... very rushed to me to be honest.
To put it short: I don't think it's OOC. Just a badly told story.

 

[carlos2033]

Spoiler

@carlos2033

I wouldn't call OOC. Actually it could be a working plotline, if it was explained. Right now it doesn't make much sense.

1) In the books Emhyr has redeemed himself. Yes he's a monster, but in the end the little bit of good in him took over
2) All he wants in The Witcher 3 is to give his throne to Ciri
3) Yennefer knows that and of all the people Ciri could be "manipulated" by (The Lodge, Radovid, Dijkstra and so on)
Emhyr and his intentions are really something you can trust

Remember Montecalvo and Kurwir plan? Emhyr all the way! If it has to be politics. Better than sucking dick in Kurwir.

In Vizima, my father and I spoke... for long. Argued, really, and parted. Then a messenger came, with a letter.
I didn't say anything at first because I wasn't sure, and then... I realized I had to stop fleeing.
Realized that if I wish to change anything, I cannot do so hunting monsters round forgotten villages.
I must do so from there. From Nilfgaard.

What needs to be explained more to actually make it work:

1) Yennefer and her time in Nilfgaard (prison) and Emhyr romance prior to meeting Geralt.

How? Why? When? Who? What? This is easy to do in one dialogue just like with Lethbro.

2) Yennefer's part in the whole empress ending. CDPR, why was she cut from the ending?

If you mean to suggest Yennefer had anything to do with this, then the answer is no.
She doesn't know about it. And I'd prefer she not get involved this time.

Why is CDPR giving us small hints of Yennefer's involvement in it during the game then?

a) Her relationship with Emhyr
b) Letters and other remarks
c) Yennefer has plans for me
d) You can trust Emhyr
e) Go see Emhyr please

And in the end Ciri says Yennefer had nothing to do with it and doesn't know about it? Lol.

3) All the relationships and character interactions between Yennefer, Ciri and Nilfgaard.

They need to be explored a lot more to actually make sense. Ciri/Emhyr, Yennefer/Emhyr, Yennefer/Ciri and so forth.
Either that, or cut the "Emhyr is a good guy" bullshit from Yennefer. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever right now.

The Empress ending feels... very rushed to me to be honest.
To put it short: I don't think it's OOC. Just a badly told story.

But problem is it`s not explained and this way it`s just look like another ``plan`` for Ciri, i would rather have that Ciri decides what to do and she just supports her decision, this way it`s make no much sense cuz first on ship Yennefer told to Ciri that she can trust emhyr and later in empress ending Ciri hides her decision from Yennefer, i mean why not told Yennefer if that is what she suggested in the first place and would support her in that.

That is why i said i don`t like filling story gaps on important matters, it just could be easily explained in conversation with her.

And it`s not that i have some big issue with that conversation od ship, it was just example, i mean you could overheard it or not it`s not that she claim that with conversation with Geralt and try to convince him that Emhyr is best person in world, its just weird conversation you could randomly hear.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Yes, for me as a book reader, it makes very little sense for Yennefer to trust Emhyr, but obviously Emhyr in the game is different person than in the books. Whitewashing Emhyr was necessary to make him a valid choice for war outcome. If they had portrayed Emhyr simply as an invader of the Northern Realms, tyrannical, incestuous deviant who is responsible for deaths of Pavetta and Calanthe and massacre of Cintra, nobody would support Nilfgaard no matter how many mages or non-humans Radovid burns.

 

[dragonbird]

A quick question here...

I've seen "she spent two years in Emhyr prison" a couple of times. Where do you get that from?
I don't recall any official timeline on the interval between the riot in Rivia and Geralt showing up at Kaer Morhen. The only one we know is that Letho and Yen were captured by the Nilfgaardians before the start of TW2, which would make it probably around 8 months to a year before the start of TW3, which means that Yen may have spent very little time in captivity.

Is there a conversation that I've missed somewhere?

 

[carlos2033]

A quick question here...

I've seen "she spent two years in Emhyr prison" a couple of times. Where do you get that from?
I don't recall any official timeline on the interval between the riot in Rivia and Geralt showing up at Kaer Morhen. The only one we know is that Letho and Yen were captured by the Nilfgaardians before the start of TW2, which would make it probably around 8 months to a year before the start of TW3, which means that Yen may have spent very little time in captivity.

Is there a conversation that I've missed somewhere?

I don`t remember it from game but i had disscusion on other threads long time ago and it was 3+2 or 5+2 years don`t remember correctly first number is time spent with wild hunt and 2 years is in prision that is where i got 2 years, that why i keep using 2 years maybe i`m mistaken. Actually i had asked that question in old Yennefer thread is it 2 years but i didn`t get answer. So i tought it`s 2 years and kept using it, but no one point my mistake if it is mistake.

So if someone has real answer about Yennefer time in prision please tell me to stop spreading false information.

 

[zanzibar_007]

So if someone has real answer about Yennefer time in prision please tell me to stop spreading false information.

I think you're near the truth, one year and 6 months in jail, and 6 months in the Emperor's Courtyard.

She said something like she's searching Ciri for 6 Months.

 

[carlos2033]

Well i never paid to much attention to witcher timeline (books + games) cuz it`s kinda messy but here it goes.

As stated in W2 Geralt saved Letho in july 1270
Than he exchanged his soul for Yennefer in winter solstice. Midinvaerne-night of magic 1270, don`t know exact month but it`s winter and it`s probably end of year.
Than we have start of W3 in may 1272, which give as maximum year and half of separation between Geralt and Yennefer assuming that Yennefer and Letho were captured by nilfgaard right after Geralt exchanged his soul for Yennefer.

 

[Gennad86]

assuming that Yennefer and Letho were captured by nilfgaard right after Geralt exchanged his soul for Yennefer.

They weren't. In TW2 Letho says they took care for her for pretty long time, and then they got into the hands of Nilfgaardian intelligence. Letho was in prison for ~a month. He managed to notice that she was somehow important to Emhyr, but didn't hear anything about her after he left.

 

[Zyvik]

It still hurts in my heart how Triss and Rita betrayed and literally backstabbed Yen in the books - friends my ass. If your best "friend" in that group is the woman who once was your enemy and the battlefield, who once blinded you and whom you don't even really know you know that you don't have any real friends there left. Yen knows that. Time to move on. There is no space for her in the lodge.

Never forgive, never forget.

When did Rita betray Yen?

 

[Scholdarr.452]

When did Rita betray Yen?

Every time she (at least silently) supported the actions of Philippa and the lodge against Yen. It was Philippa who led the lodge and made (most of) its decisions after all but Rita is to blame as well, if only for standing by and letting it happen. She's not different to Triss here.

 

[Zyvik]

Every time she (at least silently) supported the actions of Philippa and the lodge. It was Philippa who led the lodge and made (most of) its decisions after all but Rita is to blame as well, if only for standing by and let it happen.

But what could Margarita do against Philippa?And unlike Triss she at least never directly refused to help Yen.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

But what could Margarita do against Philippa?And unlike Triss she at least never directly refused to help Yen.

That's basically the same argument as "What could the lonely Nazi soldier do against Hitler?", at least to some extend.

It needs bravery and a certain mindset to stand up for what you call right and just and good. Nobody forced Rita to join the lodge. Nobody forced Rita to support Philippa. Nobody forced Rita to stay in the lodge and even if so - she could have done it nevertheless. Yen stood up against Philippa and the lodge. She stood up for those she called family and friends. Neither Triss nor Rita did so. So they are to blame for everything Philippa and the lodge did in their name as well. As member of the lodge they are responsible for all of its actions - especially if they don't speak or act against it and just silently accept its actions.

Rita and Triss both made their decision. They betrayed their friend for what they thought would be "the greater good". That might sound justifiable but the way to hell is paved with good intentions. It's still a betrayel of their friendship with Yen and there is imo no doubt about that for both.

By the way, the "the end justifies the means" is typcial for sorcerers and sorceresses in the Witcher world. Yen is absolutely no saint in that regard either, quite the opposite. She's a prime exampe of "the end justifies the means" and she imo is to blame for that as well. The only difference to the lodge is that she has different goals and that she puts family and her close ones above the apparent "greater good". That's also the most important reason why there is no affiliation between Yen and the lodge possible. They have simply different goals that put them even into (mortal) competition, driving a wedge between Yen on the one side and Triss, Rita and co on the other side. Obviously saving their friend was less important for Triss, Rita and co than saving the world. But then again there is the famous question in moral theory: "Why should a world be saved if you have to sacrifice everything that is good, right and just for it? Is a world like that worth saving?" That's actually one of the basic moral questions behind the whole witcher world - and a quite tough one to answer, both in theory and practice...

 

[Zyvik]

That's basically the same argument as "What could the lonely Nazi soldier do against Hitler?", at least to some extend.

It needs bravery and a certain mindset to stand up for what you call right and just and good, something Rita obviously never did (just like Triss...). Nobody forced Rita to join the lodge. Nobody forced Rita to support Philippa. Nobody forced Rita to stay in the lodge and even if so - she could have done it nevertheless. Yen stood up against Philippa and the lodge. She stood up for those she called family and friends. Neither Triss nor Rita did. So they are to blame as well for everything Philippa and the lodge did in their name as well. As member of the lodge they are responsible for all its actions - especially if they don't speak or act against it and just silently accept its actions.

Rita and Triss both made their decision. They betrayed their friend for what they thought would be "the greater good". That might sound justifiable but the way to hell is paved with good intentions. It's still a betrayel of their friendship with Yen and there is imo no doubt about that for both.

By the way, the "the end justifies the means" is typcial for sorcerers and sorceresses in the Witcher world. Yen is absolutely no saint in that regard either, quite the opposite. She's a prime exampe of "the end justifies the means" and she imo is to blame for that as well. The only difference to the lodge is that she has different goals and that she puts family and her close ones above the apparent "greater good". That's also the most important reason why there is no affiliation between Yen and the lodge possible. They have simply different goals that put them even into (mortal) competition, driving a wedge between Yen on the one side and Triss, Rita and co on the other side.

I agree to an extent.But unlike Triss Rita is not a freelancer,she's a rector of Aretuza.And we know that there's nothing more important for Rita than her school.The Conclave and the Council were disbanded,there was nobody to support mages and their rights.The Lodge was created for that purpose.So technically Rita didn't choose the Lodge over Yen,she choose the well-being of her students over Yen.Also there's this:
Yennefer greeted with relief, joy and hope the break for a snack and the wetting of dry throats, proposed by Philippa. It became immediately clear that her hopes were going to be dashed. Margarita clearly wished to speak with her,but Philippa quickly pulled her to the other end of the hall. Triss Merigold, who approached her was accompanied by Francesca. The elf monitored the conversation without embarrassment. But Yennefer saw the anxiety in Triss’s eyes and she was sure had the conversation had no witnesses it would have been useless to ask for help. Triss no doubt had committed her whole soul to the Lodge already.
Rita wanted to talk to Yen during the meeting,perhaps even wanted to help her,but Philippa dragged her away before she could do anything.Yen thought that Triss was entirely loyal to the Lodge,but she doesn't say the same about Rita.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I agree to an extent.But unlike Triss Rita is not a freelancer,she's a rector of Aretuza.And we know that there's nothing more important for Rita than her school.The Conclave and the Council were disbanded,there was nobody to support mages and their rights.The Lodge was created for that purpose. So technically Rita didn't choose the Lodge over Yen,she choose the well-being of her students over Yen.

Actually, the lodge never cared about Aretuza or the students. It even couldn't do so in theory because they're a secret organization by nature. How should a secret organization stood up for students of magic and their education? If you ask me Rita only joined because she was "lost" without the circle telling her what to do. So I do understand why she joined. That doesn't justify that she never questioned or even left the lodge. Like in Nazi regime, there were probably good reasons why yound men became soldiers - but that doesn't justify that they did what they did in some cases and never stood up for the right thing. Best defend for Rita is probably that she's just weak-minded and a coward. Still, that's no excuse. She betrayed Yen just like Triss.

Rita wanted to talk to Yen during the meeting,perhaps even wanted to help her,but Philippa dragged her away before she could do anything.Yen thought that Triss was loyal to the Lodge,but she doesn't say the same about Rita.

That only proves how weak-minded Rita is at best. Fact is, she didn't stand up for Yen and that's all that counts in the end. She's to blame for every action of the lodge like every other member.

All Yen thought about the situation was that she was convinced that Triss was already "lost". That doesn't mean that Rita was on the edge. And in the end, it doesn't matter. Rita made her decision at last. Whether she just silently accepted Philippa's decisions or supported them, as a member of the lodge she's to blame for them no matter what.


Sorry, for the slight off-topic. Maybe we should end that discussion or at least continue it in the lodge thread.

 

[Zyvik]

Actually, the lodge never cared about Aretuza or the students. It even couldn't do so in theory because they're a secret organization by nature. How should a secret organization stood up for students of magic and their education?

They cared about the well-being of mages in general including the students,since they're the future generation.But yeah,it's far from the topic of this thread,so I'll conclude by saying that I don't think Yen held any grudge against Rita by the end of the books.

 

[zanzibar_007]

By the way, the "the end justifies the means" is typcial for sorcerers and sorceresses in the Witcher world. Yen is absolutely no saint in that regard either, quite the opposite. She's a prime exampe of "the end justifies the means" and she imo is to blame for that as well. The only difference to the lodge is that she has different goals and that she puts family and her close ones above the apparent "greater good".

Oh! You Forgot something very important.


Her world is a patriarchal monarchy composed of caste, Even Calanthe had a Husband, i didn't remember for Meve, etc...


But if in this World a Woman like Yennefer have a gift, like Magic, She uses it without a doubt because in this kind of world it's every man or woman for themself and Melitele Goddess for all. Yep.


Yennefer Struggles for life, for Coins, to live at ease, and it is difficult to foresee the consequences of your actions even it's for the Greater Good. It's difficult to Blame and Judge her for that.


Sometimes She acts for the Greater Good and it's for the Worse.


Sometimes She acts in her Selfish Way, and it's for the Good.


This is not Our World, in this context if Yennefer finds a man who is with Her and don't want to Dominate Her, like a Selfish boy hum-hum, with His own Talent, Who Knows ?


Context, lol.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Oh! You Forgot something very important.


Her world is a patriarchal monarchy composed of caste, Even Calanthe had a Husband, i didn't remember for Meve, etc...


But if in this World a Woman like Yennefer have a gift, like Magic, She uses it without a doubt because in this kind of world it's every man or woman for themself and Melitele Goddess for all. Yep.


Yennefer Struggles for life, for Coins, to live at ease, and it is difficult to foresee the consequences of your actions even it's for the Greater Good. It's difficult to Blame and Judge her for that.


Sometimes She acts for the Greater Good and it's for the Worse.


Sometimes She acts in her Selfish Way, and it's for the Good.


This is not Our World, in this context if Yennefer finds a man who is with Her and don't want to Dominate Her, like a Selfish boy hum-hum, with His own Talent, Who Knows ?


Context, lol.

I don't understand what you want to tell me, I'm sorry.

But I think the Witcher world is pretty close to our world (or at least certain times in history) in many (important) elements. Morality is for example one of these elements, even under different circumstances.

 

[wright1978]

I think you're near the truth, one year and 6 months in jail, and 6 months in the Emperor's Courtyard.

She said something like she's searching Ciri for 6 Months.

Personally don't think she was in confinement for anything like that length of time.

 

[dmcaldw]

This is all speculation but here it goes . Yennifer's recovery was a form of confinement you have to figure Emhyr fished information out of her while healing her most relating to Ciri . The political and lodge were a bonus but he needed to hold her but as Guy pointed out she could have free run equivalent to an ankle bracelet in our society . Emhyr had to hold her because Geralt was the other piece of the puzzle . This set in motion destabilizing the North Geralt getting caught up in it was a bonus . What ever reason Emhyr gave to invade the North it was all about getting as many eyes and ears on the ground as possible . Now the Ciri sightings begin he starts Yennifer on her trail . The Emperor wasn't planning on Geralt looking for Yennifer in the beginning but worked out in his favor sort a.
Geralt becomes the tool because of his relationship with Ciri boots on the ground the best tracker . Now Yennifer has hope and can begin making plans to get out of her predicament . Yennifer getting the pardon for the Lodge was part of the plan . She is doing every thing to make sure Ciri is safe or not being used by other means . Indirectly it works with the Empress ending but is more fitting with the Witcheress ending . The bad ending you screwed up game over . It may be an over simplification but Yennifer is trying to use her motherly instinct .