The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[GHOSTMD]

@EcoSeis
the CAT potion was the most usefull one in TW1... and it didn t make Geralt see in the Dark
CAT strengthen the abillity of the witcher so see in the dark nothing more. I DEFINATLY WANT that
potion in TW i was so dissapointed with TW2 CAT potion....

I would also like to see TW1 secondary effects coming back in TW3... so as the mutagenic potions
they give you additional Skillpoints ... just as mentioned.... TW1 system IS GOOD ... and there was
no problem with it at all

 

[carcanclaw.71]

My filthy casual roots might be showing here, but I've never really dealt with the potions/alchemy in the previous games. I always play on normal, so it isn't super necessary. That said, this proposed system would definitely make me more open to experimenting with it.

 

[EcoSeis]

@EcoSeis
the CAT potion was the most usefull one in TW1... and it didn t make Geralt see in the Dark
CAT strengthen the abillity of the witcher so see in the dark nothing more. I DEFINATLY WANT that
potion in TW i was so dissapointed with TW2 CAT potion....

I would also like to see TW1 secondary effects coming back in TW3... so as the mutagenic potions
they give you additional Skillpoints ... just as mentioned.... TW1 system IS GOOD ... and there was
no problem with it at all

Maybe I played 2 other games, but Geralt was in Pitch Black without the potion, the potion wasn´t a bonus to a "by default" "cat vision", and didn´t enhanced anything, his eyes are meaningless, period, at least in my 2 copies of the games.

 

[jg_baller]

Potions/meditating/alchemy please stream line this

Dear CDP

Ive been a massive fan of all the Witcher games and im overjoyed that the wait for the 3rd game is getting shorter by the day!

Please Please Please. Make some improvements to the potion system

- By all means making potions/oils/bombs etc should perhaps still require meditating, i never had a problem with that aspect.

It irritated me though that drinking them required me to enter a meditation. Can this not be done without entering the meditation state? By all means perhaps drinking them is taxing on Geralt but surely this can be done within the game without having to enter the meditation state. I can understand that you perhaps want to prevent the player drinking them whilst in combat but surely a simple animation that takes time within the flow of the game could be applied without breaking the game flow?

Really the whole alchemy system needs some love i think - there was a whole skill tree devoted to it that i just didnt use at all because of the above and because i felt it didnt really bring much to the game. I just rarely used potions at all and got through the entire game fine... I might be very wrong!

I suppose there are lots of threads on this and i apologise in advance - if there are posts about this where the dev's have given their directions in this matter please point me to them id really appreciate it!

Thanks alot

 

[StaGiors]

This thread might be useful to you. Though you will have to get through lots of spam, and will have to read a lot. I have a feeling your thread will get merged with said thread soon enough.

Here is the link:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/28983-The-Witcher-3-Potions-System-Detailed

 

[jg_baller]

Thank you for the link - have a red point for being helpful!

god its on the same page as this one! ... i went back 6 pages without finding any. Im stupid.

 

[StaGiors]

Thank you for the link - have a red point for being helpful!

god its on the same page as this one! ... i went back 6 pages without finding any. Im stupid.

Hah, you were just unlucky. 4 or 5 new threads just got started so it got moved from the top. I had a relatively hard time finding it too, and I knew it was there.

 

[Scholdarr]

It irritated me though that drinking them required me to enter a meditation. Can this not be done without entering the meditation state? By all means perhaps drinking them is taxing on Geralt but surely this can be done within the game without having to enter the meditation state. I can understand that you perhaps want to prevent the player drinking them whilst in combat but surely a simple animation that takes time within the flow of the game could be applied without breaking the game flow?

Drinking potions in the witcher world isn't the same as drinking potions in any other RPG. It's deeply rooted in the lore of the world. Drinking potions and battle preparation is an essential part of the life as a witcher. "Drinking a coffeepotion on the go" is not the witcher style. All his potions are highly toxic and he has to enter a meditation state to be able to even cope with their toxic effects.

I'm sure that people who don't know the lore of the witcher world will find that strange. But then again, it's all about being true to the lore and about maintaining roleplaying. For old games of the franchise that stuff is part of the experience and I, personally, don't want to miss it.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

You and me both.
I'd love to know what the hell got into them to take the fun and immersive aspect that is the procedure of actually creating potions out of the game.

There has to be another way to make sure that newcomers to the franchise understand the importance of potions and why it's crucial to actually use them before most fights without forcing that watered down iteration of an absolutely solid system on people who have been with the series since its inception.

This doesn't have to do with newcomers, and potions are not important in TW1 or TW2, and its not crucial to use them before most fights, and I would argue the system was not solid, or at least it was solid but poorly balanced.

 

[thislsmadness]

Drinking potions in the witcher world isn't the same as drinking potions in any other RPG. It's deeply rooted in the lore of the world. Drinking potions and battle preparation is an essential part of the life as a witcher. "Drinking a coffeepotion on the go" is not the witcher style. All his potions are highly toxic and he has to enter a meditation state to be able to even cope with their toxic effects.

I'm sure that people who don't know the lore of the witcher world will find that strange. But then again, it's all about being true to the lore and about maintaining roleplaying. For old games of the franchise that stuff is part of the experience and I, personally, don't want to miss it.

Thing is, its a videogame and compromises sometimes must be made for the sake of compelling gameplay. Personally, I don't think there was anything interesting about potions in Witcher 2. It was a tedious mechanic that only served to make encounters trivial -- Its practically not worth using. I suspect the reason they are overhauling it again is because they agree or have received significant feedback in the same vein.

Auto replenishing potions have gotten a ton of hate in the thread, and I have agreed that it is an odd thing at a glance. However, when I take a step backward and think about what it means for gameplay I'm less bothered. It strongly encourages meditation and preparedness since you'll want to sit and replenish potion supply. It also means that they can balance all encounters under the assumption that players are using potions, so they shouldn't make you OP like before.

 

[Phalaxtor]

This doesn't have to do with newcomers, and potions are not important in TW1 or TW2, and its not crucial to use them before most fights, and I would argue the system was not solid, or at least it was solid but poorly balanced.

Well, it was solid enough for me and solid enough to not be tampered with, as far as I'm concerned. "Never touch a running system".

And from what I could gather, it actually seems to have a lot to do with newcomers. Or is there another reason why CD Projekt Red would cut down on the (repeated) potion-brewing part of the system and replace it with auto-refilling potions? Most of the people who played the previous games surely wouldn't mind clicking that Create Potion button a couple of times in the third installment of the Witcher as well?

If the opposite is the case then

 

[Scholdarr]

Thing is, its a videogame and compromises sometimes must be made for the sake of compelling gameplay. Personally, I don't think there was anything interesting about potions in Witcher 2. It was a tedious mechanic that only served to make encounters trivial -- Its practically not worth using. I suspect the reason they are overhauling it again is because they agree or have received significant feedback in the same vein.

Auto replenishing potions have gotten a ton of hate in the thread, and I have agreed that it is an odd thing at a glance. However, when I take a step backward and think about what it means for gameplay I'm less bothered. It strongly encourages meditation and preparedness since you'll want to sit and replenish potion supply. It also means that they can balance all encounters under the assumption that players are using potions, so they shouldn't make you OP like before.

You weren't OP in higher difficulty levels. Of course there is no need to drink potions in easy mode.

Mikromanagement is always tedious to some and fun to other. That's just the thing with tastes. You can say the same for the level of lore you want to maintain in the game. If you don't care about that very much you will probably find it tedious. But for others it's a crucial part of the roleplaying experience. And the roleplaying experience is - to me - as important as compelling gameplay. If some gameplay mechanics break immersion they lower the fun I have in games. That's why I like my RPGs and don't want Witcher to be an action game in which almost everything is about gameplay. To me RPGs are more than fighting and talking, it's a homogenic experience and even some kind of simulator, yes. So there has to be compromises but each of us probably has a different opinion how they should look like...

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Drinking potions in the witcher world isn't the same as drinking potions in any other RPG. It's deeply rooted in the lore of the world. Drinking potions and battle preparation is an essential part of the life as a witcher. "Drinking a coffeepotion on the go" is not the witcher style. All his potions are highly toxic and he has to enter a meditation state to be able to even cope with their toxic effects.

I'm sure that people who don't know the lore of the witcher world will find that strange. But then again, it's all about being true to the lore and about maintaining roleplaying. For old games of the franchise that stuff is part of the experience and I, personally, don't want to miss it.

This.
And for the very same reason I do not want an auto-refill system.

Thing is, its a videogame and compromises sometimes must be made for the sake of compelling gameplay. Personally, I don't think there was anything interesting about potions in Witcher 2. It was a tedious mechanic that only served to make encounters trivial -- Its practically not worth using. I suspect the reason they are overhauling it again is because they agree or have received significant feedback in the same vein.

And I personally LOVED it. It was one of the best mechanics of the game for me, of both games actually.
It just fits into the whole atmosphere and the tactical aspect and the whole Witcher fantasy.
Nobody forced you to use this "tedious" system, fact is though some people fell in love with it.
Actually sometimes it was more fun to do alchemy than it was to fight in the games. I could get lost in that system.

Auto replenishing potions have gotten a ton of hate in the thread, and I have agreed that it is an odd thing at a glance. However, when I take a step backward and think about what it means for gameplay I'm less bothered. It strongly encourages meditation and preparedness since you'll want to sit and replenish potion supply. It also means that they can balance all encounters under the assumption that players are using potions, so they shouldn't make you OP like before.

And it also means alchemy itself is pointless dammnit.
It means you'll spend about 0,1% of the game doing alchemy, even with upgrades since every potion only has 3 upgradable levels, which means alchemy itself is going to be useless and boring. And to be honest, I don't think the auto-fill itself has anything to do with the balance of the potions effects.

In the end it effectively removed 98% of an established system that I very much enjoyed because you have to find ingredients 1 time only and then you can just magically remake the potions every time you meditate, which removes one motivator for exploration, effectively removes 98% of a special form of interaction (collecting herbs and parts of monsters), makes monster loot useless and removes the 90% of the alchemy system usage throughout the game.

There would have been way better solutions like for example having merchants which can sell you potions (special witcher contacts) and on top having 1 potion be usable multiple times by being able to buy bigger vials to use 1 potion more often, etc. Would have made the thing way less tedious while leaving the option for those who loved the system.

I don't mind the "upgrades", I don't mind the "weak /support" and the "strong/"mutagenic"" potions, I don't mind that less ingredients have to be collected for more potions and that you can make alchemy simpler IF YOU WANT, what I mind is an auto-refill that effectively neutralizes a big deal of the meaning the alchemy system had in previous games.

Mikromanagement is always tedious to some and fun to other. That's just the thing with tastes. You can say the same for the level of lore you want to maintain in the game. If you don't care about that very much you will probably find it tedious. But for others it's a crucial part of the roleplaying experience. And the roleplaying experience is - to me - as important as compelling gameplay. If some gameplay mechanics break immersion they lower the fun I have in games. That's why I like my RPGs and don't want Witcher to be an action game in which almost everything is about gameplay. To me RPGs are more than fighting and talking, it's a homogenic experience and even some kind of simulator, yes. So there has to be compromises but each of us probably has a different opinion how they should look like...

This.

 

[thislsmadness]

You weren't OP in higher difficulty levels. Of course there is no need to drink potions in easy mode.

Mikromanagement is always tedious to some and fun to other. That's just the thing with tastes. You can say the same for the level of lore you want to maintain in the game. If you don't care about that very much you will probably find it tedious. But for others it's a crucial part of the roleplaying experience. And the roleplaying experience is - to me - as important as compelling gameplay. If some gameplay mechanics break immersion they lower the fun I have in games. That's why I like my RPGs and don't want Witcher to be an action game in which almost everything is about gameplay. To me RPGs are more than fighting and talking, it's a homogenic experience and even some kind of simulator, yes. So there has to be compromises but each of us probably has a different opinion how they should look like...

I disagree, for me they def kill the challenge on harder difficulties, I have no idea what the game is like or normal or easy since I only play at the hardest available.

Compromise means both sides endure and CDPR has to balance these things because they want to sell their game to as wide an audience as possible. This game still has a ton of traditional RPG elements. There is still some degree of collecting ingredients, finding recipes, and having to prepare before battle. I understand that you may want this to simply be a visual novel, but that is obviously not the game CDPR wants to make.

 

[Scholdarr]

I disagree, for me they def kill the challenge on harder difficulties, I have no idea what the game is like or normal or easy since I only play at the hardest available.

Well, difficulty is always subjective. To some people a game is hard to others easy. If TW2 was easy for you even in the hardest available mode you are probably a minority and there is no reason why CDPR should cater to you...

I personally think that the difficulty was quite ok on hard and dark mode, challenging but not too punishing. Potions made combat easier but imo you were not OP.

Compromise means both sides endure and CDPR has to balance these things because they want to sell their game to as wide an audience as possible. This game still has a ton of traditional RPG elements. There is still some degree of collecting ingredients, finding recipes, and having to prepare before battle.

You say it: they want to cater to the mainstream and that's something "hardcore" RPG fans usually don't like. And they don't have to like it.

I understand that you may want this to simply be a visual novel, but that is obviously not the game CDPR wants to make.

I want an RPG like stated and not a visual novel. I can't recall me writing that I don't like combat at all or anything...

I'm also not sure why you tell me all this. Are you working for CDPR and do you want to tell me why and how you plan to design the game or why do you try to shut me (or other people thinking that the potion system isn't that good) down? I'm here to raise my voice that I don't like the concept. That's the reason why a forum even exists, to discuss stuff and different opinons. Statements like "just be happy with whatever CDPR will come up with, there has to be compromises" are just pointless, sorry. If we can't and shouldn't talk about the game and give feedback about systems they could just close the forum.

So, for the record: I don't want big compromises to cater o action game fans. I hate this general direction of the game. Please don't do it. So, that's my opinion and it's now up to CDPR to do with it whatever they want to...

 

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

I disagree, for me they def kill the challenge on harder difficulties, I have no idea what the game is like or normal or easy since I only play at the hardest available.

That isn't really an argument in defense of the new system though, you're just saying that you don't use potions anyway.
In which case any changes to the system or even the complete removal of potions, doesn't make a lick of difference to you.
Likewise, it shouldn't matter to you if we got the alchemy-system that we have come to love and expect out of a Witcher game.

In regards to potions being OP, they HAVE to be significant! If they barely made any difference at all, then nobody would bother with them. If they ruin the challenge for you, then either don't use them or use different ones.

For me the fact that I took the time to actually brew the potions myself, and even brew them in specific ways (TW1 system) adds another layer of satisfaction to my preparation. With refilling potions you might as well just make a temporary talent-tree with various bonuses that you could change around anytime you sat down to meditate, it would be the exact same thing.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Well, difficulty is always subjective. To some people a game is hard to others easy. If TW2 was easy for you even in the hardest available mode you are probably a minority and there is no reason why CDPR should cater to you...

I personally think that the difficulty was quite ok on hard and dark mode, challenging but not too punishing. Potions made combat easier but imo you were not OP.


You say it: they want to cater to the mainstream and that's something "hardcore" RPG fans usually don't like. And they don't have to like it.


I want an RPG like stated and not a visual novel. I can't recall me writing that I don't like combat at all or anything...

I'm also not sure why you tell me all this. Are you working for CDPR and do you want to tell me why and how you plan to design the game or why do you try to shut me (or other people thinking that the potion system isn't that good) down? I'm here to raise my voice that I don't like the concept. That's the reason why a forum even exists, to discuss stuff and different opinons. Statements like "just be happy with whatever CDPR will come up with, there has to be compromises" are just pointless, sorry. If we can't and shouldn't talk about the game and give feedback about systems they could just close the forum.

So, for the record: I don't want big compromises to cater o action game fans. I hate this general direction of the game. Please don't do it. So, that's my opinion and it's now up to CDPR to do with it whatever they want to...

This.

I mean seriously, we also have an opinion.

If potions made it too easy for you then just don't use them.
For me it was still challenging with potions.

While I do not support the dumping-down and reduction of challenge in fights I do think that if you played on the hardest difficulty the fights were challenging enough even with potions.

If you want it even harder then go ahead and create a mod for it, there will be a modkit released later on.

We are by far no mainstream players in that sense, we are no casuals or fans of easy games (LordCrash and me and others who criticize the system here).
What we want is an immersive , reasonable and challenging roleplaying experience and I do not see how auto-refilling of potions will make any difference in how the game balances the effect of the potions. If anything then this focus on a more casual-friendly system does only indicate that the fights WIHTOUT potions will be even easier if this system will be in the final game (which I do of course hope it is not).

For me the fact that I took the time to actually brew the potions myself, and even brew them in specific ways (TW1 system) adds another layer of satisfaction to my preparation. With refilling potions you might as well just make a temporary talent-tree with various bonuses that you could change around anytime you sat down to meditate, it would be the exact same thing.

This

By doing those changes you basically change an interesting and complex alchemy system in a simple system of upgrades/buffs which you can activate any time after you have "unlocked" them once (by collecting the ingredients 1 time)

 

[thislsmadness]

Well, difficulty is always subjective. To some people a game is hard to others easy. If TW2 was easy for you even in the hardest available mode you are probably a minority and there is no reason why CDPR should cater to you...

I would not demand that they do. Though, whether I'm in the minority regarding the all around usefulness and tedium of the W2 potion system is another matter.

You say it: they want to cater to the mainstream and that's something "hardcore" RPG fans usually don't like. And they don't have to like it.

I'm not saying that you have to like it. What you choose to like is your own prerogative, I'm simply offering a viewpoint to why these changes are being made. I'm a hardcore RPG fan as well, but I'm ok with elements being "streamlined" if it makes the gameplay more compelling.

I want an RPG like stated and not a visual novel. I can't recall me writing that I don't like combat at all or anything...

I'm also not sure why you tell me all this. Are you working for CDPR and do you want to tell me why and how you plan to design the game or why do you try to shut me (or other people thinking that the potion system isn't that good) down? I'm here to raise my voice that I don't like the concept. That's the reason why a forum even exists, to discuss stuff and different opinons. Statements like "just be happy with whatever CDPR will come up with, there has to be compromises" are just pointless, sorry. If we can't and shouldn't talk about the game and give feedback about systems they could just close the forum.

So, for the record: I don't want big compromises to cater o action game fans. I hate this general direction of the game. Please don't do it. So, that's my opinion and it's now up to CDPR to do with it whatever they want to...

Why did you explain above about Witcher Lore and Potions? Were you trying to shut that guy up or just offer an explanation to why you disagree with him? As you said, its a discussion and I'm offering my interpretation that is counter to yours. I never told you to just be happy with whatever CDPR comes up with -- you are free to hate any decision they make and create thousands of posts about it if you are inclined. All I'm saying is that the game will, and should, make compromises to the lore in an effort to create more compelling gameplay.

 

[Wild_Fishing]

Don't worry. Witcher games never had traditional health potions.

Red colour looks stupid. As if we all are 5 years old and still cant read.

That's specific to Diablo?

There's no need to bring all rpg's stereotypes in the game.

 

[thislsmadness]

That isn't really an argument in defense of the new system though, you're just saying that you don't use potions anyway.
In which case any changes to the system or even the complete removal of potions, doesn't make a lick of difference to you.
Likewise, it shouldn't matter to you if we got the alchemy-system that we have come to love and expect out of a Witcher game.

In regards to potions being OP, they HAVE to be significant! If they barely made any difference at all, then nobody would bother with them. If they ruin the challenge for you, then either don't use them or use different ones.

For me the fact that I took the time to actually brew the potions myself, and even brew them in specific ways (TW1 system) adds another layer of satisfaction to my preparation. With refilling potions you might as well just make a temporary talent-tree with various bonuses that you could change around anytime you sat down to meditate, it would be the exact same thing.

If major gameplay systems can be entirely ignored or, when used, they break the game then that is bad gameplay design. It matters to me because I want all parts of this game to be compelling and useful to me.