emperorzorn said:This.
And if you look closely, Bioware borrowed a lot from Skyrim for DA:I.
Hey, Dovahkin. Nice new helmet.
Now with Skyrim Navigation bar.
Well, creativity doesn't seem to be Bioware's strength.
I mean... demons invading the world, really ?
Did they even TRY to write an interesting setting ?
I'll stick to CDPR's games for now, thanks./>/>
Where in the blazes do people get these arguments? By that logic CDPR copied Skyrim too.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/13/jun/witcher04.jpg
I could say that this looks like the area near Whiterun.
http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/08/The_Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt_Last_man_standing-1152x648.png
Or that this looks a lot like the Rift area from Skyrim.
Hell, this games has swords elves and dragons so it must have copied Skyrim.
As for the story, I don't really care if the characters are interesting.
emperorzorn said:
I very much doubt they borrowed it from Sapkowski. Before the games the books were not that popular outside of Poland. Furthermore, DA:O was in development way before TW:1. As for elves that are disrespected and live in ghettos, TES already did that. Warcraft 3 too.
rohirrim7 said:
I thought DAO was pretty good. The story was cliche, but the way it was told was very good and the music was some of the best I've heard in a game. The ME series was ok too. Stupid, but fun.
rohirrim7 said:
One thing they definitely borrowed from Skyrim is those stupid stupid horns. Nix the horns!
In my personal opinion, The Last Wish is possibly the worst of the entire saga. Coz it's not so easy to understand why revisiting classic fairy tales in a darker light, instead of creating his own. Bad way to start. The Sword of Destiny is great, better than the novels (from my point of view).GuyOntheMoon said:
You have to read those books to understand what the Wild Hunt is and why it's pursueing Ciri.
Here's a very short explaination http://witcher.gamepedia.com/Wild_Hunt read the spoiler section specifically, unless you care of the spoilers. We have the fan translations coz there's no english translation so far unfortunately http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/20967-our-community-fan-translations/
In short, the Wild Hunt needs Ciri for her magical powers.
Well if CDP is faithful to the novels, the Wild Hunt does what it does for egotistic power reasons. The reapers are just machines that respond to a computer software, a very intelligent and technologically advanced computer software.
Bashing Bioware and Skyrim is the national sport in this forum
/> Now you know ^^Thothistox said:
Yup. I've always got the impression there were a LOT of DA:O fans in the forums, I know I'm one.
I understand and mentioned that. Come on, the Witcher saga is original in many ways, but it`s still a heroic fantasy) Confirmed by Mr. Sapkowski himself.GuyN said:
Totally agree) My point was that there is a lot of heroic writing trying to be realistic or mimic some of it`s elements. In which case, i personally prefer the good heroic fantasy more than poor realistic one. Maybe i just couldn`t express that in a right way)GuyN said:
Off course they do) Everybody borrowing good ideas from each other - why not?GuyN said:
OK, in my opinion, they possibly borrowed it from CDPR, but elven ghettos was the Sapkowski`s idea not CDPR`s, that`s what i meant. Maybe you are right and Bioware take it from TES and Warcraft, but Bethesda and Blizzard possibly could take it from Sapkowski! =). Cause, you know, their games are great and popular, but it doesn't change the fact, that their universes is a mixture of all fantasy cliches from all other medias.
I`m not sure that DAO was in development way before the Witcher, but i still remember the first screenshot and how the game become more "dark and gritty" after:
Possibly it was the Witcher`s influence. My point was that there is no actual stealing, just influence and inspiration from good ideas, which goes both ways and good for everybody. Cause at the end of the day, nothing is original, really. That`s all)
emperorzorn said:This.
And if you look closely, Bioware borrowed a lot from Skyrim for DA:I.
Hey, Dovahkin. Nice new helmet.
Now with Skyrim Navigation bar.
Well, creativity doesn't seem to be Bioware's strength.
I mean... demons invading the world, really ?
Did they even TRY to write an interesting setting ?
I'll stick to CDPR's games for now, thanks.
The helmet design is pretty close to an actual helmet pattern used by the Greeks and the Romans, at least it looks a lot like a Corinthian style helm to me. The same general helmet design shows up in a lot of Fantasy and Science Fiction.
Boba Fett with his T-visor design or Magento from the X-Men is another example of what is basically a Corinthian Helm.
I think that Bioware borrowed a lot from Witcher. Mainly from wicther lore. For example Elves. Situation of elven race is almost same in Witcher and Dragon Age. Elves living in slums are equal to elves and dwarves living in non-human discrits from Witcher and Dalish elves tribes are similar to Scoia tel.
TheGreyRanger said:
Ok, you're right.
But you can't tell me that Navigation Bar is Corinthian aswell.
Sure I could, but I'd be lying like a cheap rug if I did. I'll give you that, it is a lot like the one from Skyrim. There are other games that have used onscreen compasses however. So that's not really anything new. Also note that the screenshot you're referencing is a pre-alpha build, who knows what the final game will look like.
I'm not trying to say that they were not influenced by other game designs mind. Almost all works are at least somewhat derivative of the stuff that has come before, and if you're building a game you're probably going to copy stuff that works. Just be sure to file off the serial numbers first
I'm not trying to say that they were not influenced by other game designs mind. Almost all works are at least somewhat derivative of the stuff that has come before, and if you're building a game you're probably going to copy stuff that works. Just be sure to file off the serial numbers first
TheGreyRanger said:Sure I could, but I'd be lying like a cheap rug if I did. I'll give you that, it is a lot like the one from Skyrim. There are other games that have used onscreen compasses however. So that's not really anything new. Also note that the screenshot you're referencing is a pre-alpha build, who knows what the final game will look like.
I'm not trying to say that they were not influenced by other game designs mind. Almost all works are at least somewhat derivative of the stuff that has come before, and if you're building a game you're probably going to copy stuff that works. Just be sure to file off the serial numbers first
Of course.
But my point here is that Bioware admitted copying off Skyrim themself.
And that's fine in my book, because Skyrim did it well.
I just don't understand why people are giving me flak for pointing it out
and keep insisting that Bioware would never do that.
-.-;
Dragon Age: Inquisition will NOT be truly open world. It will be like in DA:O, where you could go between regions by using the map. The difference is that these zones will be much bigger.
My problem with Bioware is that ALL their games presently have the same plot - a great evil bend on destruction of everything (does it matter if we have reapers or blight?) returns from some hiding place (does it really mater from deep space or deep underground?), and a small group of heroes led by a chosen one (grey warden or specter, does not matter) must unite the world (who cares if it is Ferelden or Galaxy) against them, and defeat by sacrificing a hero in a process. I am kinda sick to play this story again and again.
And no, it is NOT THE ONLY story in fantasy, just look at modern stuff and classics. Fantasy stories are varied, including Chronicles of Amber, Turtledove stuff, World of Tiers of Farmer, and even classical Conan, and Martian Chronicles. Why now is it always the same crap, and couldn't they take inspiration from something else?
To be honest I would be happy if they steal some ideas from TW series, at least they would have moved from their only plot and start doing something different for a change. Well, to be fair, DA2 was a bit different, but they screwed up so badly in terms of plot logic and character motivations that it turned out a complete garbage. May be they need to have new brain transplants, not to steal new ideas.
And no, it is NOT THE ONLY story in fantasy, just look at modern stuff and classics. Fantasy stories are varied, including Chronicles of Amber, Turtledove stuff, World of Tiers of Farmer, and even classical Conan, and Martian Chronicles. Why now is it always the same crap, and couldn't they take inspiration from something else?
To be honest I would be happy if they steal some ideas from TW series, at least they would have moved from their only plot and start doing something different for a change. Well, to be fair, DA2 was a bit different, but they screwed up so badly in terms of plot logic and character motivations that it turned out a complete garbage. May be they need to have new brain transplants, not to steal new ideas.
It's not just the plot that is important. The Gothic series also has good vs evil and a Chosen One. A lot of people believe that it was the plot that made the story interesting when in fact it was the fact that people felt like real people with real motivations, even if they didn't have outstanding character traits and the sense of world and imminent danger. Remember when Harad asked you to retrieve AN ORCISH SWORD? At level 5, when you were weak as shit? Remember when you had to go to the Old Camp through an army of orcs when you were still a small fry? It seemed nigh impossible but the best thing about this was that PB told a lot about the orcs without them saying an actual word.When you ran through their army, you KNEW they meant business.
Also, there were tons of little things to discover if you opened your eyes a bit. Both examples are very good storyTELLING techniques (very different from narrative) that are found nowhere in RPGs nowadays. From what I see BioWare, Bethesda and CDPR all fail to deliver storytelling through gameplay which is a shame. It's not just narrative and voice acting that matters. You can create a sense of world and imminent danger using just narrative but it will not be as effective without reinforcing this with gameplay. I will never truly believe that "army x" is threatening if their soldiers can be killed in two blows.
I would have really liked CDPR to make TW3 more like Gothic. A smaller but more condensed game. I have already finished DA:O and TW 1 and 2 at least 7 times and now when I try to play them again, I find that they have nothing more to offer me whereas I always enjoy Gothic when I replay it.
EDIT: My biggest fear is that DA:I and TW3 will do everything to become Skyrim killers, even at the cost of sacrificing everything their games stood for. Gothic 3 did EXACTLY that. They sacrificed the smaller but denser experience in favor of making it an Oblivion killer. They bit more than they could chew and this is why I am a bit skeptical of DA:I and TW3.
Also, there were tons of little things to discover if you opened your eyes a bit. Both examples are very good storyTELLING techniques (very different from narrative) that are found nowhere in RPGs nowadays. From what I see BioWare, Bethesda and CDPR all fail to deliver storytelling through gameplay which is a shame. It's not just narrative and voice acting that matters. You can create a sense of world and imminent danger using just narrative but it will not be as effective without reinforcing this with gameplay. I will never truly believe that "army x" is threatening if their soldiers can be killed in two blows.
I would have really liked CDPR to make TW3 more like Gothic. A smaller but more condensed game. I have already finished DA:O and TW 1 and 2 at least 7 times and now when I try to play them again, I find that they have nothing more to offer me whereas I always enjoy Gothic when I replay it.
EDIT: My biggest fear is that DA:I and TW3 will do everything to become Skyrim killers, even at the cost of sacrificing everything their games stood for. Gothic 3 did EXACTLY that. They sacrificed the smaller but denser experience in favor of making it an Oblivion killer. They bit more than they could chew and this is why I am a bit skeptical of DA:I and TW3.
Cormacolindor said:
Mine too because in such case my heart will be broken again. But, judging how CDPR writers handled plots of TW1-2, and that they know all the dangers of Oblivion/Skyrim-slaying after Gothic 3/Two Worlds fiasco, I have faith in them.
PB were never really good writers to begin with (Gothic(1) was a little masterpiece, but judging by what followed it was one hit wonder and more of an accident, or may be relevant people just left), but they were really good in creating immersive gameplay that was lost in Gothic 3. But CDPR do have great writers, and while they are quite all right in gameplay department, I wouldn't really care and take whatever they offer as long as the quality of their story is on a par with TW1-2.
vivaxardas said:
"Quite alright" is not nearly enough anymore. They're one of the big boys now. And my post was not about the writing, it's about how devs fail to augment their story using the gameplay. Very few games pull off the sense of danger the way Gothic 2 does and it's a bloody shame that PB aren't making a new Gothic now that they have the rights back.
I thought Nordmar was the best zone in Gothic 3. Very immersive.
Cormacolindor said:
I'm playing through Gothic 2 for the first time right now, and I see what you mean. However, there are drawbacks to this kind of storytelling. Though they are good games, Gothic 1&2 rely on very powerful enemies to block the player from exploring certain areas. I agree with this design to a degree, but it can get ham-handed. Why should a warg, which is not bigger than a wolf, be so strong? Why should the dragon dinosaurs (I don't remember what they're called) be so much stronger than regular dinosaurs? It's clear that the enemies function as corks on the parts of the map the devs don't want you to explore until later. In fact, most of the game is just getting to areas you're either not allowed to see because you haven't done something yet, or because you're not strong enough to get there. For that reason the game isn't nearly a non-linear as it initially seems. What you call "storytelling through gameplay" feels so forced that it might as well be part of narrative, and this is probably why so many devs later opted for this route over the open-world model.
I'm hoping that, since TW3 is open-world, they'll go for something along the lines of Gothic, but they'll allow skilled players to explore much deeper. In Gothic 1&2, skill doesn't count for much.
Actually, in Gothic 2 you can beat a black troll with a stick, while being a level 1 character. There were (probably still are) some youtube videos about it.
But personally I never liked such approach to the games where you do not have difficulty levels, and start pretty much on very hard. To dance around a single wolf for five minutes is not my idea of fun. I played Gothic 2 for the story, so I simply turned on a god mode. Even then it was very time-consuming to beat up all these beasties.
I value Gothic 1-2 for something different I can't even describe. It is its unique atmosphere (I think it is how this called) that is not lost even when I play in god mode. But TW games are as immersive for me as Gothic 1-2 were, because I am a big fan of the novels. I don't really worry about gameplay, I just want a story of the same quality (or even better) than in TW1-2.
But personally I never liked such approach to the games where you do not have difficulty levels, and start pretty much on very hard. To dance around a single wolf for five minutes is not my idea of fun. I played Gothic 2 for the story, so I simply turned on a god mode. Even then it was very time-consuming to beat up all these beasties.
I value Gothic 1-2 for something different I can't even describe. It is its unique atmosphere (I think it is how this called) that is not lost even when I play in god mode. But TW games are as immersive for me as Gothic 1-2 were, because I am a big fan of the novels. I don't really worry about gameplay, I just want a story of the same quality (or even better) than in TW1-2.