Combat Thread - General

[Guest 4211861]

Well, most of the gear you're talking about is made by 3 companies. To avoid the standard Good-Bad-Better-Best quality mechanic, you could use the three companies to rate gear, namely Militech and two other Asian companies (can't remember their names). So, if this feature would be implemented into the game, then your quality can be based off of which company it comes out of.

I can understand that, but even when discussing a single company. there is a product range of different things.

Some products are designed to be cheap and basic, others have unnecessary features like curved displays and so on to attract the people with more money than braincells (what I want to roleplay).

A company is foolish to make stuff that is only high-end, or only cheap stuff, they make a diverse range of products that fulfill the same basic function(s).

 

[Loostreaks]

I hope they nail futuristic gun sounds. It has to feel weighty, concussive, with sounds reverberating through the environment, with just the right amount of bass to it.
It seems a lot of fights take place in closed areas, this would work great with bullets constantly ricocheting off walls.
Syndicate really did good here:

You listenin', Rowley?

 

[Sild]

whatever, I just want a lot of different guns

+1
And some nice impact to them.. you know.. that.. oomph!

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

im not seeing any glowing examples

There are none, not "glowing" ones anyway. But so what? There's a first time for everything, and if nothing's ever tried, nothing'll ever get done. And things like that have been tried before. Divinity Dragon Commander mixed RTS with third person flightsim (and it was made with shoelace budget), Dungeon Keeper ('92) let you possess and play your minions in first person. Some modder made a turnbased mode for Fallout 3, I don't think he finished the mod and what the WIP video showed was crude, but it was functional, more work would've made it just fine (considering that it was one guy with modding tools and some free time).

Anyway, I don't really believe in "completely" different systems (because the game has to be balanced twice) but rather different iterations of existing ones. So that's not really my argument.

whatever, I just want a lot of different guns

+1
And some nice impact to them.. you know.. that.. oomph!

And that's what you shall have by the sound of it.

 

[Cybercable]

If people (not you @Garrison72 ) think there can be one, and ONLY one combat system used in a game they're incorrect.
If however there is a single system then I totally agree it should be either FPS/twitch or RPG not a bastardized hybrid system.

There's no reason at all you can't have two systems.
When you start a new game you select which system to use, FPS/twitch or RPG. If you go FPS/twitch the character skills are truncated and you don't even see firearms/melee/unarmed skills since they're totally irrelevant. If you go RPG these skills exist AND you get a few more character design points then FPS/twitch players because you need them for skills that don't exist in FPS/twitch.

For combat the game plays like your typical TFS/twitch game, BUT RPG players get "pause" and "character attack" buttons that don't exist for FPS/twitch players as they're not needed.

It's really not all that difficult.

And I want to stress yet again, this is a single-player game, there is no PvP, no one gets any sort of competitive edge by using one system or the other.

In fact yes 2 different system can exist but making them work for a game means a ton of work, really.
it can cost millions and years of work and its not sure both will work well. You know game/level design will be different, UI and AI too.
They will need to split the programmers team or hire double of people and to be honest depending on where the development is it can be to late to implement these systems.
I hope for the future, new tech, etc it will be easier to do if its planed at the beginning.

 

[Suhiira]

In fact yes 2 different system can exist but making them work for a game means a ton of work, really.
it can cost millions and years of work and its not sure both will work well. You know game/level design will be different, UI and AI too.
They will need to split the programmers team or hire double of people and to be honest depending on where the development is it can be to late to implement these systems.

Not even close.
Yes, of course it would be some extra work, but it's one system in a game, not an entire game.
Half a dozen people and a month maybe, probably less.
Because my suggestion is layered over the existing FPS system 99% of the current FPS system is used "as is".

 

[4meg]

Not even close.
Yes, of course it would be some extra work, but it's one system in a game, not an entire game.
Half a dozen people and a month maybe, probably less.
Because my suggestion is layered over the existing FPS system 99% of the current FPS system is used "as is".

I can see it. Current FPS hit/miss has been developed for years and is well understood. What we need is a layer over the FPS that requires a few extra calculations and user input perhaps, but nothing revolutionary. It could be a simple matter of turning the layer off and on as per player preference.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Because my suggestion is layered over the existing FPS system 99% of the current FPS system is used "as is".

Lest this remains just as a continuous yes/no argument over the feasibility of a concept, go a bit into specifics on how it'd work in your mind, how it'd be done.

 

[SigilFey]

Hi!

A couple of posts have been deleted.

I hope we're all having fun with the debate and keeping in mind that all opinions are welcome in this argument. And no one understands others' minds...only their own.

 

[Heart Of Dawn]

And not even that, sometimes.

 

[kxmusashi]

I think RPGs that employ skill based shooting as well as manual aim shooting are sort of funny. It gives you a radius where your bullet can end up around your aim point so if you get really lucky you can aim off and miss the skill roll and and have it end up hitting your target despite to both systems saying you failed on their individual aspects. I always prefer one or the other or a manual aiming system with a special system that uses your skill rolls that you can call up.

 

[Rawls]

t gives you a radius where your bullet can end up around your aim point so if you get really lucky you can aim off and miss the skill roll and and have it end up hitting your target despite to both systems saying you failed on their individual aspects. I always prefer one or the other or a manual aiming system with a special system that uses your skill rolls that you can call up.

You can also just have skills that effect weapon sway, reload speed and recoil. This allows for skills to effect shooting without those sorts of more game-y mechanics.

 

[kxmusashi]

You can also just have skills that effect weapon sway, reload speed and recoil. This allows for skills to effect shooting without those sorts of more game-y mechanics.

Yea that is one way of doing it, not sure if I have seen a game do it that way but it could work out.

 

[Suhiira]

Lest this remains just as a continuous yes/no argument over the feasibility of a concept, go a bit into specifics on how it'd work in your mind, how it'd be done.

I think I have.
Or did you want a more detailed explanation?
( And if you you do, remember you asked for it ! )

 

[RLKing1969]

I hope they nail futuristic gun sounds. It has to feel weighty, concussive, with sounds reverberating through the environment, with just the right amount of bass to it.
It seems a lot of fights take place in closed areas, this would work great with bullets constantly ricocheting off walls.
Syndicate really did good here:

You listenin', Rowley?

I like that suggestion.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I think I have.
Or did you want a more detailed explanation?
( And if you you do, remember you asked for it ! )

Go for it. I’m just asking a descrptio on how you’d imagine gameplay would work under what you have in mind.

 

[Suhiira]

When you start a new game in addition to selecting difficulty and such you also select "FPS" or "RPG" combat.
In function the current FPS/twitch system is totally unchanged. There's absolutely no need to alter it in the slightest.
Also the current combat mechanics used by NPCs don't require any alteration.

Obviously NPCs have some sort of non-FPS shooting mechanics already since they're not run by players, this can be used as a basis for implementing an RPG (character centric) combat system. You're not starting from scratch with regard to the code needed ... "copy" - "paste".

If you select "RPG Combat" then during character generation there are addition skills unneeded for FPS gameplay (Handgun, Melee, Rifle, etc.) and you are given a few extra points to distribute among these skills. You'll probably need to gain new skills 10-25% faster throughout the game so RPG playthrus have the points needed to purchase skills that don't exist in FPS.

As far as gameplay is concerned it's totally unchanged no matter which combat system you're using with one exception.
A pause control/button (which doesn't exist [or maybe it does, up to CDPR] during FPS play) that simply freezes the action and allows the player to select the target (and possibly body location assuming that's already in the game) they wish to attack. In other words the exact same mechanics used in FPS play, but the crosshair doesn't require precise placement in a fraction of a second like FPS.

Now comes the "big" change. Instead of tracing the path of the projectile and determining if the player hit as is needed for FPS play the combat skills and character stats of the character are used to determine the probability of a hit and a random number is generated.

That's really all there is to it.
The FPS crowd gets exactly what they want, and so does the RPG crowd.

 

[RLKing1969]

I think cyber improvements, clothes and weapons should also have degrees of Quality. Maybe even vehicles, we've seen high-class vehicles in the images.

No, I don't mean that rarity BS, nobody cares about rarity, except the Pokemon noobs.

I mean, for example for cyber prosthetics, there should be like (at least):

• Cheap black market improvements that look kind of shoddy and stolen off unwilling people, ilegally...
• Mid-level quality stuff
• High quality stuff
• Military issue improvements
• Luxury cyber improvements, made by luxury companies, that also make e.g. jewels and super expensive, jewel-laden consumer electronics
• prototype gear

And the same thing for clothes and weapons. I want to get the best luxury clothes and weapons engraved in gold or platinum.

Thoughts? I mean, we're not gonna be lowly mercenaries forever, we're gonna hit the big-time eventually and we need to look the part.

Probably, the question is...can you AFFORD them?

 

[Restlessdingo32]

The FPS crowd gets exactly what they want, and so does the RPG crowd.

I was under the impression the game was slated to be an RPG with FPS elements. The reasoning for designing it to cater to both is understandable. The idea you've proposed is a workable solution if they decide to take it down this road. I'm still unconvinced it's an either/or proposition.

Past games trying to mix combat often found within FPS games, which ultimately I'd describe as heavily based on player skill, and RPG games may have done it poorly, sure. It could easily be argued this was due to the implementation. This is assuming we're not talking about action or shooter games masquerading as a serviceable RPG or hybrid (been a lot of these over the years).

It could also be argued CDPR has already tied combat based on player skill into an RPG. W3 combat was largely based on landing blows, avoiding them, timing, learning the patterns of enemy behavior and knowing how to prepare for a battle ahead of time. All of this hinges on player skill. The character progression system consisted of flat damage/crit/proc boosts, improvements to the efficiency of the resource systems and un-lockable abilities you would gain as you advanced.

It'd be more ideal to steer away from flat damage/crit/proc boosts and more toward the other two, sure. This doesn't mean it wouldn't make sense for a person to be more accurate and lethal with a projectile weapon as they experience using it more often. Flat damage/crit/proc boosts is one way to model that. It's not the only way, however.

 

[Suhiira]

I was under the impression the game was slated to be an RPG with FPS elements.

So far everything we know (which admittedly isn't much) is that the combat mechanics are pretty much straight "shooter". Whereas your interactions with the environment (bypassing alarms, dialog, etc.) are pretty much RPG (i.e. based on character stats and skills).

It's certainly an interesting concept, having different aspects of a game operate under different (and functionally opposite) basic mechanics. But as it stands now a player who wants to run a highly skilled solo is prohibited ... PROHIBITED ... from doing so unless they're a skilled FPS player.